It should be Cabbe, not Cabba

[VegettoEX]

since his name is a pun of the Japaneses word for cabbage, Kyabetsu

I don't know how many times we have to say this:

It's not an original Japanese word for cabbage: it's their approximation of our English word. This isn't the equivalent of "yasai is their word for vegetable" or "gyunyu is their word for milk". It's literally just their approximation of our English word with the last syllable dropped off.

[Puto]

For the record, the reason most translators don't use Kacarrot or Cacarrot is because carrot is kyarotto, not karotto.

[DanielSSJ]

since his name is a pun of the Japaneses word for cabbage, Kyabetsu

I don't know how many times we have to say this:

It's not an original Japanese word for cabbage: it's their approximation of our English word. This isn't the equivalent of "yasai is their word for vegetable" or "gyunyu is their word for milk". It's literally just their approximation of our English word with the last syllable dropped off.

Well don't I look like an idiot now. Sorry.

[Theophrastus]

You didn't understand me, I know who he's talking about. I'm saying that in the manga (and will be in the anime eventually) there's a new girl named Carrot (not Ninjin but Carotto).

I also said the official translations AND the fan translations all used Ninjin for the Usopp Pirates dude. Official doesn't mean superior anyway. It means high quality (usually) but not superior. Otherwise we should all start calling Zoro, Zolo even though Oda doesn't

I just checked my copy of the Viz manga, and the "Usopp Pirates" kid is called Carrot (his friends are Onion and Pepper).

But yeah, Toriyama loves his pun names, half the fun is in Toriyama's interesting sense of humor.

To reinforce this:
http://www.vizmanga.com/reader/52-one-p ... _preview=1


The newer Carrot is also called Carrot in the chapters in Viz's digital Weekly Shonen Jump:

Spoiler:

[MindForgedManacle]

Why don't those who use "Cabe/Kabe" just use the "e" with an accent mark?

[xmysticgohanx]

since his name is a pun of the Japaneses word for cabbage, Kyabetsu

I don't know how many times we have to say this:

It's not an original Japanese word for cabbage: it's their approximation of our English word. This isn't the equivalent of "yasai is their word for vegetable" or "gyunyu is their word for milk". It's literally just their approximation of our English word with the last syllable dropped off.

Now that I know Kyabetsu actually is the Japanese approximation for our word rather than their own word, I agree with Cabba.

You didn't understand me, I know who he's talking about. I'm saying that in the manga (and will be in the anime eventually) there's a new girl named Carrot (not Ninjin but Carotto).

I also said the official translations AND the fan translations all used Ninjin for the Usopp Pirates dude. Official doesn't mean superior anyway. It means high quality (usually) but not superior. Otherwise we should all start calling Zoro, Zolo even though Oda doesn't

I just checked my copy of the Viz manga, and the "Usopp Pirates" kid is called Carrot (his friends are Onion and Pepper).

But yeah, Toriyama loves his pun names, half the fun is in Toriyama's interesting sense of humor.

To reinforce this:
http://www.vizmanga.com/reader/52-one-p ... _preview=1


The newer Carrot is also called Carrot in the chapters in Viz's digital Weekly Shonen Jump:

Spoiler:

Well then Viz messed up like I said

[ShadowBardock89]

The only time I have a problem with translations is in regards to a character's name. Just because a character's name means carrot, doesn't mean his name is carrot. Nappa is a word used for leafy vegetables, yet that was left untranslated.

Nappa is a pun off of Chinese cabbage. You can see why the left it as Nappa.

[Cetra]

Whatever the intended word is should be the correct translation. If Kyabbe is intended to be translated as Cabbe, it is Cabbe, if it is Cabba, then Cabbe. If it is Cabbe but translated as Cabba or vice-versa, it is a mistranslation. If it is done purposely, it is not a mistranslation.

[VegettoEX]

Whatever the intended word is should be the correct translation. If Kyabbe is intended to be translated as Cabbe, it is Cabbe, if it is Cabba, then Cabbe. If it is Cabbe but translated as Cabba or vice-versa, it is a mistranslation. If it is done purposely, it is not a mistranslation.

None of what you've said here makes any sense. There is rarely, if ever, an "intended" transliteration. They're Japanese and the name is written in Japanese and they understand the intent in their own language.

[Cetra]

None of what you've said here makes any sense. There is rarely, if ever, an "intended" transliteration. They're Japanese and the name is written in Japanese and they understand the intent in their own language.

Oh, yes. It absolutely makes sense.

Let me give you an example.

I am a big Final Fantasy fan.

Back in 1997 Square released a game called Final Fantasy VII. In Final Fantasy VII there is a very popular villain called Sephiroth.

Sephiroth is a word of Hebrew origin.
Square named this character "Se-fu-i-ro-su", which, written in romaji is read as "Sefirosu"
Sefirosu is the way they wrote the character's name because it came close to what their intention of the name's pronounciation and when they would convert the intended word to their own language.
They imitated the "ph" with the "fu-i", as "fi" and the "th" with "su" as they have no American "th" sound, and they always imitate the "th", depending on which pronounciation of the th with a "za" or "su".
They had a certain intention of what the character's name was, game manuals in Japan even often have that intended word in Japanese and in their - intended by the name giver - English name
=> therefore Japanese manuals of FFVII have names like "Cloud", "Aerith" (which in the West got mistranslated to the Latin word "Aeris" as the translators just saw the word "Earisu" but did not know about the intention, therefore wrote is as an s instead of a th, just because it is "legitimate"), Sephiroth, Tifa, et cetera
Normally the original word of "Sephiroth" would NOT be pronounced with an American th, but with a hard "t", still they have had a certain intention, that was giving that character a defined name as well as a certain way of pronouncing it, thus Sephiroth from "Sefirosu" with the intention of giving him the Hebrew name with the English prounciation instead of for example "Sephiroth" from "Sefirotto" (or whatever) was born.
Intention exists, so does miscommunication. If you just go out and say "Oh, yeah, they wrote "Sefirosu" so we can legitimately call him "Sefylos" or start calling Cloud "Crowd", just because in katakana he is written as "Ku-ra-u-do" that does not reflect it. Same goes for many other names where they did not just take an already existing word but made one up and still had the intention of the Western equivalent.

Same goes for terms like "Rebirth" which are example written as "Ribasu" and STILL mean Rebirth but where the translator does not get it and for example translates it is "Reverse" (as "Rebirth" and "Reverse" can be translated from the same katakana). While things are translated when it comes to thinking of which katakana can be used for which letters, it does not automatically mean, it is the right word.

Do not underestimate how much they work with foreign letters in mind. I have a very good example for you:

Tetsuya Nomura, the creator of the Kingdom Hearts series had work with English names in mind for the names of his nobody characters in Kingdom hearts as he had to add an X in those names and the way those names are written in Japanese it would not directly work without thinking about that (because of how the katakana build the X sound in those specific names or the equivalent sound for exactly that name for which he always had to think about an X being involved).

It DOES makes sense. There is a reason why mistranslations exist. German names for example are extremely popular in Japan and when they get translated in English versions the translators do not know that and what the namegivers wanted, is suddenly lost. That happens for names, attacks, areas, many things. You cannot just go out and say "oh, that is a correct word because i have legitimately converted the katakana to a letter that is actually possible". That is as if I ask you "could you tell me what time it is?" and your answer is just "yes".

[LuckyCat]

Sephiroth is a word of Hebrew origin.
Square named this character "Se-hu-i-ro-su", which, written in romaji is read as "Sefirosu"
Sefirosu is the way they wrote the character's name because it came close to what their intention of the name's pronounciation and Western style of writing is.

This is not a good analogy. Cabbage is an established word used in Japanese that has English origins. Sephiroth is a proper name and means nothing in Japanese.

[Cetra]

Sephiroth is a word of Hebrew origin.
Square named this character "Se-hu-i-ro-su", which, written in romaji is read as "Sefirosu"
Sefirosu is the way they wrote the character's name because it came close to what their intention of the name's pronounciation and Western style of writing is.

This is not a good analogy. Cabbage is an established word used in Japanese that has English origins. Sephiroth is a proper name and means nothing in Japanese.

Maybe it is not the best analogy but there are many other words. I have imported games from Japan since 2007 and even when it comes to old games, I see it all the time. The point is, mistranslations exist in all languages. And mistranslations are not just mistranslations when something completely different is translated. The problem here is, that somehow it was meant as if I would not agree about Cabba, which is not even true.

[Ajay]

As I understand it now thanks to Adamant:

Bejitaburu (ベジタブル) = Japanese approximation of "Vegetable".
Kyabetsu (キャベツ) = Japanese approximation of "Cabbage".

Ergo:
Bejiita (ベジータ) = Vegeta
Kyabe (キャベ) = Cabba

Using "Kyabe" is equally as silly as "Bejiita" and "Tolanksu".

Not sure why this is even being questioned at this point.

[VegettoEX]

You're explaining things I'm very familiar with. I know about Sephiroth. I know about the "Varia" suit in Metroid. These are NOT analogous here, though, because we're not talking about religious figures or the katakana-ization of established loanwords and using them as-is as the actual words they are to mean the exact same thing across language barriers.

We're talking about made-up names of characters that change their spellings and pronunciations in one language using loanwords from another language and then get transported back to the origin language (well, alphabet). These are not the same situations, and I'm not sure how else I can describe it to people in a way that makes sense if you don't already understand it.

This isn't about "mistranslations"; you're not "mistranslating" the character's name if you spell it as "Suno" or "Dabura"... you're just being incredibly daft. Those are perfectly valid romanizations, but they miss the point entirely.

And that's why this is an artform and not a scientific method, despite what I've already gone on and on about regarding rules and consistency. There are some choices that are more logical that others, but they're still choices. You can use "Cabe" all you want, but you might as well also use "Tolanks".

[Cetra]

This isn't about "mistranslations"; you're not "mistranslating" the character's name if you spell it as "Suno" or "Dabura"... you're just being incredibly daft. Those are perfectly valid romanizations, but they miss the point entirely.

And that is were we both go different ways because a legitimate translation is not the same as the right translation. If I give you a message and you understand it in a possible way, then yes, you did understand the message. But not the message that I wanted to give you with it. Do you call that successfull communication? No. Actually that is even how communication psychology works. If my communication partner does not react the way intended after during communication then it was no successful communication (though that is getting too big now so let's leave it at that).
You have even said it perfectly. "They miss the point entirely". If you say "yes" to "could you tell me what time it is?" then you gave me a perfectly legitimate answer but it was not right within the (normally very obvious) context that was meant. And you saying someone is "daft" for doing something that does not follow what was meant but is "legitimate" has a certain reason. You just understanding what I said in a legitimate but not the intended meaning is still a misunderstanding between us.

You know what the problem here is? I think you do not see that I actually say that "legitimate translation" exists, that is never denied, just that I point out the relevant difference between both. I even had a conversation with my Japanese teacher once concerning mistranslations, as she also is very well aware of "you can understand it that way, too" but that's just one side and that's the thing, therefore incomplete.