Are you satisfied with the story of Super so far?

[TheMikado]

Um Vegeta has yet to actually take out any major bad guy.

Seriously it's second fiddle Vegeta all over again except in GT his independent fight scenes are more than a few seconds long.

But he gets a lot of screen time and character development.

In Gt he was a side character alongside everyone else and his fights started and ended with him losing while in Super he's the 2nd main character and he put up a better fight against Beerus then Goku did and got to beat the hell out of Golden Freeza who beat up Goku and nearly killed him.

Super may be flawed but if there's one thing it's doing right it's Vegeta which is the complete opposite of Gt which went out of it's way to make him look bad.

I think you may not understand why people like Vegeta to begin with. He's the top underdog.

Vegeta decides he's going to take on Frieza
Takes on Cell
Takes on Beerus x 2 (once as a child)
Takes on Super 17
Despite being severely outclassed.

Why? Saiyan F-ing pride!! Classic Vegeta would rather literally die than bend his knee in humiliation.

This is a link of classic Vegeta, even though Super 17 is probably going to wipe him out his pride forces him to stand like a man in face it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pafchnS5sGE

In Super there's no honor in beating on a weaker opponent and still not even getting to finish the task. I would even mention that fact that Vegeta is basically Goku's tag-a-long or Beerus's manservant.

At least in GT Vegeta 1) is his own man and decides he's going to relax at home while Goku goes space hopping. Virtually every shot of Vegeta in GT is with his family so he's not too interested in running around after Goku's antics. He has a corporate empire on Earth like his father King Vegeta. 2) He doesn't leave the Earth defenseless.

GT Vegeta seems like a far greater character development. Vegeta matured, takes care of his family and business. Doesn't jump at new ways to abandon them. Still keeps his defining character trait, but accepts that he doesn't have to be the 1# fighter in the universe to have a happy and full-filling life. Needless to say I'm not a fan of Vegeta "Prince of Saiyans" playing Goku's wingman.

[sintzu]

In Super there's no honor in beating on a weaker opponent and still not even getting to finish the task.

There would be less honor in letting that opponent kill his defenseless friend.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

Um Vegeta has yet to actually take out any major bad guy.

Seriously it's second fiddle Vegeta all over again except in GT his independent fight scenes are more than a few seconds long.

But he gets a lot of screen time and character development.

In Gt he was a side character alongside everyone else and his fights started and ended with him losing while in Super he's the 2nd main character and he put up a better fight against Beerus then Goku did and got to beat the hell out of Golden Freeza who beat up Goku and nearly killed him.

Super may be flawed but if there's one thing it's doing right it's Vegeta which is the complete opposite of Gt which went out of it's way to make him look bad.

I think you may not understand why people like Vegeta to begin with. He's the top underdog.

Vegeta decides he's going to take on Frieza
Takes on Cell
Takes on Beerus x 2 (once as a child)
Takes on Super 17
Despite being severely outclassed.

Why? Saiyan F-ing pride!! Classic Vegeta would rather literally die than bend his knee in humiliation.

This is a link of classic Vegeta, even though Super 17 is probably going to wipe him out his pride forces him to stand like a man in face it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pafchnS5sGE

In Super there's no honor in beating on a weaker opponent and still not even getting to finish the task. I would even mention that fact that Vegeta is basically Goku's tag-a-long or Beerus's manservant.

At least in GT Vegeta 1) is his own man and decides he's going to relax at home while Goku goes space hopping. Virtually every shot of Vegeta in GT is with his family so he's not too interested in running around after Goku's antics. He has a corporate empire on Earth like his father King Vegeta. 2) He doesn't leave the Earth defenseless.

GT Vegeta seems like a far greater character development. Vegeta matured, takes care of his family and business. Doesn't jump at new ways to abandon them. Still keeps his defining character trait, but accepts that he doesn't have to be the 1# fighter in the universe to have a happy and full-filling life. Needless to say I'm not a fan of Vegeta "Prince of Saiyans" playing Goku's wingman.

Gt vegeta-better animated and stronger

Super vegeta-Gets more screentime.

The problem with GT is because Goku was gone for 90% of Z's sagas I thin kToei wanted to give him overdue spotlight, but vegeta and friends were on the sidelines. In super, it's kind of like the buu saga

Buu saga-if you're not a saiyan or the big threat/villain...you're nothing. Just a cheerleader for the real fighters


super-if you're not a God or the big threat/villain you're nothing. the only goku and vegeta had minimal things to do in super before becoming gods was because they would become gods and were saiyans, which is slightly important still.

Let's be real, no god ki basically means no worth in a way. I want Piccolo to get a god form so he doesn't have to fight people when they're henchmen or weakened. I want Tien to get a enlightened form or something. IDK just wishlist stuff.

[Lord Beerus]

Buu saga-if you're not a saiyan or the big threat/villain...you're nothing. Just a cheerleader for the real fighters.

Mr Satan wasn't a Saiyan or a big threat, and his role in the Majin Boo arc was arguably the most significant. If he wasn't for him, Kid Boo would have won.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

Buu saga-if you're not a saiyan or the big threat/villain...you're nothing. Just a cheerleader for the real fighters.

Mr Satan wasn't a Saiyan or a big threat, and his role in the Majin Boo arc was arguably the most significant. If he wasn't for him, Kid Boo would have won.

he did play kin of a big role, but again not a saiyan or villain so he's weak. Also I hate him helping out at the end. Human power shouldn't be a factor in killing the final villain in the show. Omega made sense since it was from everyone in the entire universe...but buu...I imagine every human combined times 1000 wouldn't even scratch a molecule on him.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Buu saga-if you're not a saiyan or the big threat/villain...you're nothing. Just a cheerleader for the real fighters.

Mr Satan wasn't a Saiyan or a big threat, and his role in the Majin Boo arc was arguably the most significant. If he wasn't for him, Kid Boo would have won.

he did play kin of a big role, but again not a saiyan or villain so he's weak. Also I hate him helping out at the end. Human power shouldn't be a factor in killing the final villain in the show. Omega made sense since it was from everyone in the entire universe...but buu...I imagine every human combined times 1000 wouldn't even scratch a molecule on him.

What's wrong with "weak" (power-wise) character having big roles in a victory? Why someone strong is only allowed to be a factor in victory? What's the reasoning other than you not liking the concept?

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

It's not that he's weak, it's just that it's the humans helping out with such weak power. It'd be like 100 saibamen blowing up on buu and killing him, I would consider that a plot hole too.


Now if fat buu was still in super or kid buu and mr Satan distracted buu and made fat buu fight internally and keep buu still for some final attack goku or vegeta would do then that'd be not as bad. It's the thing of all the humans put together=a big amount of power in the buu saga......yeah....that's what I hate.

[TheMikado]

In Super there's no honor in beating on a weaker opponent and still not even getting to finish the task.

There would be less honor in letting that opponent kill his defenseless friend.

Real Saiyans don't have friends.

But seriously, the saiyan code is more like Viking or Spartan code where death in battle is honorable and weakness is deplorable.

- Nappa and Vegeta show no remorse at Raditz being wiped out and call him a weakling.
- Vegeta then kills Nappa himself for failing to overcome the Z warriors and Goku.

In keeping with the consistency of Saiyan pride, birthright and heritage are major components as can be seen by Vegeta repeating the Prince of Saiyans line.
-examples where this comes into play.
Vegeta enraged over Beerus smacking his "Queen"
Vegeta enraged over Cell killing his Son and heir Trunks.

Yes emotional love comes in to play but it combined with the outrage of disrespect to the Prince of Saiyans and be extension his royal family.

As I pointed out in the click that aspect of Vegeta's personality which is engrained in him since birth are still part of his personality where as his priorities have changed towards his family.

Character growth involved build on an existing character not personality swaps.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

It's not that he's weak, it's just that it's the humans helping out with such weak power. It'd be like 100 saibamen blowing up on buu and killing him, I would consider that a plot hole too.


Now if fat buu was still in super or kid buu and mr Satan distracted buu and made fat buu fight internally and keep buu still for some final attack goku or vegeta would do then that'd be not as bad. It's the thing of all the humans put together=a big amount of power in the buu saga......yeah....that's what I hate.

Who says they have to physically contribute? You can help and be a factor in victory without necesarilly having to punch and kill the enemy. Mr. Satan in the Majin Bu arc is the best example of this.

[Lord Beerus]

It's not that he's weak, it's just that it's the humans helping out with such weak power. It'd be like 100 saibamen blowing up on buu and killing him, I would consider that a plot hole too.


Now if fat buu was still in super or kid buu and mr Satan distracted buu and made fat buu fight internally and keep buu still for some final attack goku or vegeta would do then that'd be not as bad. It's the thing of all the humans put together=a big amount of power in the buu saga......yeah....that's what I hate.

You hate the idea of the human race playing a pivotal role in saving the universe? Remember, it's not just a couple thousand of humans giving their energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb, it's billions of humans. And not all humans have the same battle power.

[sintzu]

The problem with GT is because Goku was gone for 90% of Z's sagas I think Toei wanted to give him overdue spotlight.

He got enough spotlight in Z but unlike other Shonen and even the original DB, he wasn't overshadowing everyone.

I think one of the reasons why the Android arc is considered to be the best by a lot of fans is because of how Goku was pretty much a secondary character in it and everyone else were the main ones which shows that Z's supporting cast is 2nd to none.

[TheMikado]

It's not that he's weak, it's just that it's the humans helping out with such weak power. It'd be like 100 saibamen blowing up on buu and killing him, I would consider that a plot hole too.


Now if fat buu was still in super or kid buu and mr Satan distracted buu and made fat buu fight internally and keep buu still for some final attack goku or vegeta would do then that'd be not as bad. It's the thing of all the humans put together=a big amount of power in the buu saga......yeah....that's what I hate.

You hate the idea of the human race playing a pivotal role in saving the universe? Remember, it's not just a couple thousand of humans giving their energy to Goku's Spirit Bomb, it's billions of humans. And not all humans have the same battle power.

Correct, the farmer when the saiyans came to earth had a power level of 5. Oolong and Puar have power levels of 10 each. Ox King is 900.
So assuming the average is 5 even though we know an old backwater farmer in the middle of nowhere is at that power level, we still have 4 Billion people to collect from plus all the super super strong characters. Even just the base 5 average time 4 billion would give you an instant 20 Billion power level. However you can't forget that the Spirit Bomb collects from not just people, but animals, plants, rivers, the air, the ground, volcanos, hurricanes, tornados, etc. Also that's just an Earth based one. We haven't even accounted for a universal one which would use the moon, starts and planets etc.

My power level calculations for spirit bombs are as follows:

Human based (without Z fighters) - 20 Billion
(with Z fighters) - 25 Billion
All of Earth - No Idea!! 100 billion?
Solar System (9 x planets (with moons) + Sun) 100,000 Billion?
Galaxy? (There are 200 Billion stars in our galaxy alone) so 200 Billion X 100,000 Billion!!!
Universe!!!!!?????!?!?!? (There are an estimated 200 Billion Galaxies in our known universe)
so 200 Billion X 200 x 100,000 Billion = a power level universal spirit bomb of:
400,000,000,000,000,000

Just illustrating how ridiculous this is, but even if we took a power level of just 1 average for everything it would still be an astronomically ridiculous number.

[Hellspawn28]

The problem with GT is because Goku was gone for 90% of Z's sagas I think Toei wanted to give him overdue spotlight.

He got enough spotlight in Z but unlike other Shonen and even the original DB, he wasn't overshadowing everyone.

I don't think Goku has over shadow everyone as people make him out to be in recent history. For example:

Son Goku and His Friends Return: It was mainly about Goten and Trunks fighting. Goku didn't battle until the very last minute to beat up Aka.
BOG: Goku was on King Kai's planet for the most part and didn't show up at Bluma's house/ship until much later.
ROF: It was mainly Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin, Tien, Roshi and Jaco fighting. Goku and Vegeta didn't show up until the last minute.

[sintzu]

I don't think Goku has over shadow everyone as people make him out to be in recent history.

It's because they take Z's original 13 movies and Gt into account but if you look at Z & Super only then he doesn't.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

It's not that he's weak, it's just that it's the humans helping out with such weak power. It'd be like 100 saibamen blowing up on buu and killing him, I would consider that a plot hole too.


Now if fat buu was still in super or kid buu and mr Satan distracted buu and made fat buu fight internally and keep buu still for some final attack goku or vegeta would do then that'd be not as bad. It's the thing of all the humans put together=a big amount of power in the buu saga......yeah....that's what I hate.

Who says they have to physically contribute? You can help and be a factor in victory without necesarilly having to punch and kill the enemy. Mr. Satan in the Majin Bu arc is the best example of this.

I don't think you read what I posted. I said I hate that they contributed to the bomb to a big extent. And not that I hate them helping out in any way, just that way. Then you said that...



And to everyone talking about how I don't like the humans being a big part of the spirit bomb, it's just my opinion. I think that humans, while in the billions shouldn't be on same scale of Gohan. I think putting the likes of Ultimate Gohan as equal or less then the human race combined seams silly with my opinion of how strong he is. Also I doubt Ox King>beginning of Z Goku. He wasn't exactly fighting King piccolo who's said to be in the 200's.

Also I know not all humans have the same power level, but if you think about it, wouldn't most humans be BELOW 5? That's of a farmer who does physical labor all day long....while they're in a age where they have flying cars and robot servants. I doubt the average human is very strong. As technology grow, the humans get weaker. It's why a caveman is so much stronger then us, because they had to be. We lose strength over time because of convenience. Just a thought.

Overall I think a mear 20 billion making the spirit bomb double in size is weird, that basically means ssj3 gotenks+gohan+piccolo+the others=the human race. Seams really small. These guys can destroy the universe for crying out loud.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

And to everyone talking about how I don't like the humans being a big part of the spirit bomb, it's just my opinion. I think that humans, while in the billions shouldn't be on same scale of Gohan. I think putting the likes of Ultimate Gohan as equal or less then the human race combined seams silly with my opinion of how strong he is. Also I doubt Ox King>beginning of Z Goku. He wasn't exactly fighting King piccolo who's said to be in the 200's.

Also I know not all humans have the same power level, but if you think about it, wouldn't most humans be BELOW 5? That's of a farmer who does physical labor all day long....while they're in a age where they have flying cars and robot servants. I doubt the average human is very strong. As technology grow, the humans get weaker. It's why a caveman is so much stronger then us, because they had to be. We lose strength over time because of convenience. Just a thought.

Overall I think a mear 20 billion making the spirit bomb double in size is weird, that basically means ssj3 gotenks+gohan+piccolo+the others=the human race. Seams really small. These guys can destroy the universe for crying out loud.

The Spirit Bomb also had the Ki from the people of the Afterlife, which has the souls of every being that has died (and also beings naturally borned in that realm, like the Shinlings) in the whole universe for over millon & millon of years since the beginning of time.

[LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta]

And to everyone talking about how I don't like the humans being a big part of the spirit bomb, it's just my opinion. I think that humans, while in the billions shouldn't be on same scale of Gohan. I think putting the likes of Ultimate Gohan as equal or less then the human race combined seams silly with my opinion of how strong he is. Also I doubt Ox King>beginning of Z Goku. He wasn't exactly fighting King piccolo who's said to be in the 200's.

Also I know not all humans have the same power level, but if you think about it, wouldn't most humans be BELOW 5? That's of a farmer who does physical labor all day long....while they're in a age where they have flying cars and robot servants. I doubt the average human is very strong. As technology grow, the humans get weaker. It's why a caveman is so much stronger then us, because they had to be. We lose strength over time because of convenience. Just a thought.

Overall I think a mear 20 billion making the spirit bomb double in size is weird, that basically means ssj3 gotenks+gohan+piccolo+the others=the human race. Seams really small. These guys can destroy the universe for crying out loud.

The Spirit Bomb also had the Ki from the people of the Afterlife, which has the souls of every that has died in the whole universe for over millon & millon of years since the beginning of time.

My problem was the human portion was considered a big part of it, made it double in size and be able to kill buu. All it really did was say "here's gohan giving all his ki to kill buu....nope not enough" which adds to my goku>gohan belief, but the humans? Come on. I think it'd be better if goku took all that energy from everyone, absorbed it like in movie 7 and fired a kaioken Kamehameha. Because it always seamed dumb to me.

I like to pretend the gohan+ others was 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the bomb, and they just needed at extra 20 billion to make it strong enough to kill kid buu. That's what I like to think, to each their own.

[LightBing]

And to everyone talking about how I don't like the humans being a big part of the spirit bomb, it's just my opinion. I think that humans, while in the billions shouldn't be on same scale of Gohan. I think putting the likes of Ultimate Gohan as equal or less then the human race combined seams silly with my opinion of how strong he is. Also I doubt Ox King>beginning of Z Goku. He wasn't exactly fighting King piccolo who's said to be in the 200's.

Also I know not all humans have the same power level, but if you think about it, wouldn't most humans be BELOW 5? That's of a farmer who does physical labor all day long....while they're in a age where they have flying cars and robot servants. I doubt the average human is very strong. As technology grow, the humans get weaker. It's why a caveman is so much stronger then us, because they had to be. We lose strength over time because of convenience. Just a thought.

Overall I think a mear 20 billion making the spirit bomb double in size is weird, that basically means ssj3 gotenks+gohan+piccolo+the others=the human race. Seams really small. These guys can destroy the universe for crying out loud.

The Spirit Bomb also had the Ki from the people of the Afterlife, which has the souls of every that has died in the whole universe for over millon & millon of years since the beginning of time.

My problem was the human portion was considered a big part of it, made it double in size and be able to kill buu. All it really did was say "here's gohan giving all his ki to kill buu....nope not enough" which adds to my goku>gohan belief, but the humans? Come on. I think it'd be better if goku took all that energy from everyone, absorbed it like in movie 7 and fired a kaioken Kamehameha. Because it always seamed dumb to me.

I like to pretend the gohan+ others was 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the bomb, and they just needed at extra 20 billion to make it strong enough to kill kid buu. That's what I like to think, to each their own.

Gohan only provided the Genki of his ki, like everybody else. Not all of their Ki. How much that accounts for I don't know.

[Hugo Boss]

I watched Kung Fu Panda 3 today in 3D and some aspects reminded me so much of Dragon Ball... I wish we could have a movie summarizing every relevant bit of Champa Arc, because its story doesn't need too much episodes to be told. If only they use those awesome elements Kung Fu Panda 3 did, I would be very satisfied.

[sintzu]

I wish we could have a movie summarizing every relevant bit of Champa Arc.

I think there's a high chance the 3rd movie will be a Champa arc adaption.