Stronger or weaker after absorbing South Kaioushin?

[Tyro]

1. They were worried at Buff Buu, laughing at kid Buu.

I believe Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu but I always believed that they were underestimating Kid Buu at that point.

Even if he did become stronger, it wouldn't be anything significant because we do know how pathetically weak all the Kaioshins were.

That's what I believe too. The power increase he got from South Kaioshin probably wasn't all that significant since South Kaioshin was defeated pretty easily.

That’s a bit contradicting. You believe Shin Boo is stronger than Chibi Boo (as do I), but think that “Buff Boo” gained only slight strength over Chibi Boo? “Buff Boo’s “ strength was stated greater than Shin Boo’s by Goku.

[Mr.Piccolo]

When Kid Buu absorbs South Kaioushin and becomes Buff Buu, does his power increase or decrease?

I think his power increases. I want to point out Super Buu is a newer form of Buu. The only relation between Buff and Super Buu is that they are both Buus. The Buff one is stronger than Super Buu; Super Buu is stronger than Chibi Buu. If that makes any sense. IMO, the other Super Buus we see (Gotenks and Gohan), outclass the Buff Buu but that's for another discussion...
-Rick

[Magneto]

I belive South Kaioshin weakened him , as well as the fact that Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu .

First of all , when Kaioshin explains the history of Buu , he says that Buu`s power reduced with absorption . By this I understand the fact that Kid Buu`s power reduced with his ability to absorb , meaning that both of them decreased his power.

Don`t trust the Viz Manga . I can provide a few examples (this being one of them) where they ruined the translations .

Then there`s another point . Dabura states that they can`t use Kaioshin energy to revive Buu . This leads me to belive that the Kaioshins energy can`t powerup Buu , which excludes the possiblity of South Kaioshin making Buu stronger at all .

And then there`s also the logical part . What would be the point of introducing Buu with the South Kaioshin absorbed , if he was stronger than both Kid Buu and Super Buu ? His contribution to the story would be none . That`s why I belive that he was actually introduced to make the difference between Kid Buu and Super Buu , to show Kid Buu is stronger .

As for the comments during and after the transformation from Super Buu to Kid Buu , both Vegeta & Goku underestimated Kid Buu , due to his size . Vegeta says Look ! He`s extremly small with which Goku replies Small person ! This looks well . Yet another part Viz pretty much translated it wrong .

There`s also the fact that Vegeta actually thought he could fight Kid Buu one on one (remember the rock scissors game before the fight ?) , and Goku didn`t object about the fact that he would stand a chance .

Then there`s also the fact that it`s openly admited that he was underestimated after Goku fights him "That Boo is a lot stronger than I thought .." "He`d kill me in an instant"

So .. yeah

[Rocketman]

As for the comments during and after the transformation from Super Buu to Kid Buu , both Vegeta & Goku underestimated Kid Buu , due to his size . Vegeta says Look ! He`s extremly small with which Goku replies Small person ! This looks well . Yet another part Viz pretty much translated it wrong .

Kid Buu can't hide his power. If it stayed the same, Goku would sense that it was the same.

[Majin Buu]

Then there`s another point . Dabura states that they can`t use Kaioshin energy to revive Buu . This leads me to belive that the Kaioshins energy can`t powerup Buu , which excludes the possiblity of South Kaioshin making Buu stronger at all.

Thing is, if Buff Buu=Kid Buu like you imply then that would make Kid Buu much stronger than Goku since Super Buu was already stated to be much stronger than Goku (by Goku himself no less) when he began to transform into Buff Buu, and Goku said that Buu's ki was rising during the transformation. If Buff Buu=Kid Buu then that would mean Kid Buu should have slaughtered Goku easily in their fight.

[Acid_Reign]

If you take the manga as strictly canon, and the animé as an attempt to incorporate something that was only hinted at as an entirely separate stage, then I think it's safe to say that "Buff Boo" is merely an intermediary stage. As such, his power very well could have been fluctuating before it settled down to Kid Boo's level. Keep in mind that in science, energy gets released in any given transformation of mass-energy from one form to another. If the same rules apply to the DBZ Universe, then it's quite possible (and implied) that the changing Super Boo lost energy in his devolution. This exertion of energy could easily have been mistaken by Goku and Vegeta as an increase in his Ki at the time...which made the shorter and weaker Kid Boo look like a chump by comparison. Which he would have been, had he not been such a ruthless and quick-learning adversary.

[Magneto]

Kid Buu can't hide his power. If it stayed the same, Goku would sense that it was the same.

You haven`t read my post completly . If his power stayed constant from the moment they first saw him , then why did Vegeta say "He`s stronger than I thought" ? And another thing is that if his power stayed constand why did Vegeta first thought he could actually fight him (the rock paper scissors game) and then , after the battle with Goku said that he`d be killed in an instant ?

So there are 2 possibilities here , they misjudged him because of his size not taking his powerlevel into account , or his powerlevel was supressed until fighting Goku .

Thing is, if Buff Buu=Kid Buu like you imply then that would make Kid Buu much stronger than Goku since Super Buu was already stated to be much stronger than Goku (by Goku himself no less) when he began to transform into Buff Buu, and Goku said that Buu's ki was rising during the transformation. If Buff Buu=Kid Buu then that would mean Kid Buu should have slaughtered Goku easily in their fight.

You`re talking about Goku`s statement inside Super Buu ? Goku didn`t know he would retain his original size once exiting Super Buu`s body, so he was actually reffering to the fact that at that size , they would lose "Wait ! Eventough he`s back to normal he`s still too strong ! If we go outside like this we`ll get beaten !!" . The "like this part shows he was reffering to his size .

Then there`s also the fact that Goku said that they will defeat him once Super Buu entered his body "So we have to find an exit after defeating you .. ? , so when him and Super Buu are actually at the same size , eventough fighting inside Super Buu`s own body , Goku thinks he can beat him .

And once exiting Super Buu`s body , Goku states "Yes !! Everybody`s back to original !!" . Why would he be surprised about the fact that he regained his size if he expected it ? This also shows he was reffering to their size .

[Duo]

If you take the manga as strictly canon, and the animé as an attempt to incorporate something that was only hinted at as an entirely separate stage, then I think it's safe to say that "Buff Boo" is merely an intermediary stage. As such, his power very well could have been fluctuating before it settled down to Kid Boo's level. Keep in mind that in science, energy gets released in any given transformation of mass-energy from one form to another. If the same rules apply to the DBZ Universe, then it's quite possible (and implied) that the changing Super Boo lost energy in his devolution. This exertion of energy could easily have been mistaken by Goku and Vegeta as an increase in his Ki at the time...which made the shorter and weaker Kid Boo look like a chump by comparison. Which he would have been, had he not been such a ruthless and quick-learning adversary.

I like that. I like it a lot.

Also, I would like Magneto to point out any and all critical errors on Viz' part and put it up against what others, like Oliver Hague, have to say about the original text. From what I can tell, your "accurate translation" sounds like something no english speaking person would ever sanely type or say.

[Magneto]

I like that. I like it a lot.

Also, I would like Magneto to point out any and all critical errors on Viz' part and put it up against what others, like Oliver Hague, have to say about the original text. From what I can tell, your "accurate translation" sounds like something no english speaking person would ever sanely type or say.

I`ve only translated some important statements and parts from the Japanese manga and translated it to the Viz Manga . Just to point out a few mistakes :

When sees Kid Buu he doesn`t say "Yeah we can take him ! " , he actually says what I showed in my 1st post . Then there`s also the part where they explain the history of Buu . Old Kai doesn`t say anything about the fact that the souls tamed him . And in Kaioshin`s statement from the Viz manga there is no mention of Buu`s power decreasing with absorption , while in the Japanese manga it is . And there are more , but I`m not about to type them all just for the sake of it .

[Duo]

It just sounds like Viz chose to phrase it in a way that makes sense. Absorption shouldn't weaken him because then there would be no reason for Boo, as mindlessly insane as he is, to do it. He grew in power but became more docile. It all adds up just fine, and the Viz translation may not be a direct Engrish com awn translation, but it gets the point across in a way that flows well, makes sense, and so on...

Not seeing the problem.

[Magneto]

It just sounds like Viz chose to phrase it in a way that makes sense. Absorption shouldn't weaken him because then there would be no reason for Boo, as mindlessly insane as he is, to do it. He grew in power but became more docile. It all adds up just fine, and the Viz translation may not be a direct Engrish com awn translation, but it gets the point across in a way that flows well, makes sense, and so on...

Not seeing the problem.

Not seeing the problem ? So you just choose to ignore my post and post something completly useless in this thread . It is stated that with absorption Buu`s power had decreased in the original manga yet you come with stuff like "Viz translated it just fine because it makes sense to me" ? I shouldn`t even have bothered with you

[mAcChaos]

My question is, when they talk about his power, is he at his max? Because someone could be lower at a certain point simply because they haven't exerted themselves all the way yet.

[Magneto]

The answer to the questions are :

*Regarding Kid Buu`s first appearence

When they first saw Kid Buu they either underestimated him because of his size , not taking his powerlevel into account or Kid Buu was supressing his power until the fight with Goku .

*Regarding South Kaioshin

From the comment about the fact that they can`t use Kaioshin energy to revive Buu we conclude to the fact that Kaioshin energy can`t make Buu stronger . So this leads to 2 options : either South Kaioshin had absolutley no effect on Kid Buu`s power or he dropped it .

[mAcChaos]

Is South Kaioshin the one that made him buff or fat?

[Magneto]

The one that made him buff

[Duo]

When they first saw Kid Buu they either underestimated him because of his size , not taking his powerlevel into account or Kid Buu was supressing his power until the fight with Goku.

Except that Boo is never shown to have the ability to supress his power, nullifying your point.

From the comment about the fact that they can`t use Kaioshin energy to revive Buu we conclude to the fact that Kaioshin energy can`t make Buu stronger . So this leads to 2 options : either South Kaioshin had absolutley no effect on Kid Buu`s power or he dropped it .

Babidi easily could have meant that Kaioshins power simply wasn't big enough to be useful in reviving Boo. Also, this still poses the problem as to "why on earth would Boo absorb them?"

Not seeing the problem ? So you just choose to ignore my post and post something completly useless in this thread . It is stated that with absorption Buu`s power had decreased in the original manga yet you come with stuff like "Viz translated it just fine because it makes sense to me" ? I shouldn`t even have bothered with you

Sorry for pushing you to give a bit more actual evidence to your claim? All you provided was a seeming direct translation of the Japanese text, which made little grammatical sense. I'm not ignorant, I know Viz isn't perfect, but the explanation falls in line with everything else, so I don't know what there is to content. Some of the phrasing is, erm, unique, but that doesn't make it wrong.

[Magneto]

Except that Boo is never shown to have the ability to supress his power, nullifying your point.

Boo supressed his power after blowing himself up against Gohan . So you`re wrong
Besides Vegeta saying that he is stronger than he thought shows me right , again .

Babidi easily could have meant that Kaioshins power simply wasn't big enough to be useful in reviving Boo. Also, this still poses the problem as to "why on earth would Boo absorb them?"

Wasn`t big enough to revive Boo ? You must be talking about the same Babidi who thought PuiPui would beat them all ? So that would mean that he thought their energy level was lower than PuiPui`s , which means that their energy would be also far from reviving Buu .
But I shouldn`t even have bothered to type that , since I can show you wrong even easier . Since it says they can`t use it to revive Boo it means that it as a different kind of effect on him , a bad effect . He didn`t say "it`s not enough" .

Sorry for pushing you to give a bit more actual evidence to your claim? All you provided was a seeming direct translation of the Japanese text, which made little grammatical sense. I'm not ignorant, I know Viz isn't perfect, but the explanation falls in line with everything else, so I don't know what there is to content. Some of the phrasing is, erm, unique, but that doesn't make it wrong.

I offered an almost literall translation from the Japanese text , a translation that proves that with absorption his power had reduced . Yet you go with Viz , an inferior manga just because you think it makes sense .

[Duo]

Boo supressed his power after blowing himself up against Gohan . So you`re wrong

Ah, got me there. My bad.

But that was a different, significantly more intelligent Boo as well. That has to be considered.

Besides Vegeta saying that he is stronger than he thought shows me right , again .

That just shows that Vegeta didn't get a good feel for comparing their Ki's until Goku fought him. That doesn't mean Boo was "surpressing" himself. Delicate details.

Wasn`t big enough to revive Boo ? You must be talking about the same Babidi who thought PuiPui would beat them all ? So that would mean that he thought their energy level was lower than PuiPui`s , which means that their energy would be also far from reviving Buu .
But I shouldn`t even have bothered to type that , since I can show you wrong even easier . Since it says they can`t use it to revive Boo it means tha tit has a different kind of effect on him , a bad effect . He didn`t say "it`s not enough" .

What can I say? Babidi is an idiot. Even disregarding all that...let's just say that the ship can't make use of Kaioshins Ki, how does that translate to Boo absorbing him being useless? The situations are quite different. Don't over-simplify it. It STILL doesn't explain why Boo bothered absorbing.

I offered an almost literall translation from the Japanese text , a translation that proves that with absorption his power had reduced . Yet you go with Viz , an inferior manga just because you think it makes sense

Sorry for having an opinion? You're being far too much of a jerk in this situation and it's aggrivating. I ask that you start handling yourself in a more civilized manner. Just because I'm opposing your points gives you NO REASON to be condescending or insulting in my direction. Please cut it out.

[Magneto]

Ah, got me there. My bad.

But that was a different, significantly more intelligent Boo as well. That has to be considered.

That just shows that Vegeta didn't get a good feel for comparing their Ki's until Goku fought him. That doesn't mean Boo was "surpressing" himself. Delicate details.

Intelligence is insignificant here since it has pretty much nothing to do with the ability to sense and supress powerlevel . Vegeta didn`t get a good feel to compare their ki`s ? You`re suggesting that Vegeta can`t sense powerlevels ? He was right in front of Kid Buu witnessing his power and yet he still thought he could fight him .

What can I say? Babidi is an idiot. Even disregarding all that...let's just say that the ship can't make use of Kaioshins Ki, how does that translate to Boo absorbing him being useless? The situations are quite different. Don't over-simplify it. It STILL doesn't explain why Boo bothered absorbing.

Babidi is an idiot .. that`s your counter argument ? It is stated that they can`t use Kaioshin`s energy on Buu which means that it would have a bad effect on him . It suggests that it can`t power him up which proves South Kaioshin couldn`t have made Buu stronger .

Sorry for having an opinion? You're being far too much of a jerk in this situation and it's aggrivating. I ask that you start handling yourself in a more civilized manner. Just because I'm opposing your points gives you NO REASON to be condescending or insulting in my direction. Please cut it out.

Opinion has nothing to do with this . I`m not being a jerk , I`m actually bothering to show you wrong translations in the Viz manga and yet you come with "I`ll just go with the Viz one coz it makes more sense to me" . You`re opposing my points with what ?

[Acid_Reign]

Opinion has nothing to do with this . I`m not being a jerk , I`m actually bothering to show you wrong translations in the Viz manga and yet you come with "I`ll just go with the Viz one coz it makes more sense to me" . You`re opposing my points with what ?

What exactly makes you the authority on translations again?