Thoughts on Raditz

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by Gorou » Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:26 am

A character wasted, yes, but no less than many others in the manga.
I think he played his role quite well, humiliating the then current most powerful fighters of the earth, revealing the protagonist ritroscena of his past and bringing the story to a new level. I always liked him. He had an intriguing design and a very impressive fighting style. His arrival on the scene is one of the most iconic and spectacular.

Vijay wrote:Underutilized, underused, undervalued: 3 words synonymous to almost 99% DragonBall characters

Including Raditz, there are a TON of characters "kept simple in vintage Toriyama style". Ex: Muten Rishi, Pilaf, Commander Red, Black, Silver Shogun, White Shogun, Android 8, Tao Pai Pai, Tsuru Sennin, Babidi, Dabura, Majin Boo the list goes...

Raditz would make an excellent addition to Vegeta-caliber character
Agree

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:46 am

This wasted potential is EXACTLY why he is my favorite DB character. Like others have brought up, its almost he had been forgotten.
If you were judging by cover art, both Raditz and Nappa were supposed to appear in movie 12 (they are seen by Freeza, on the left side of Janemba).
Then, there's Dragon Ball GT:
Image
That's it. Nappa gets a segment with Vegeta, but Raditz does not even get a moment with Piccolo, Gohan, or Goku. Pretty sad.
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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:48 am

Vijay wrote:Underutilized, underused, undervalued: 3 words synonymous to almost 99% DragonBall characters

Including Raditz, there are a TON of characters "kept simple in vintage Toriyama style". Ex: Muten Rishi, Pilaf, Commander Red, Black, Silver Shogun, White Shogun, Android 8, Tao Pai Pai, Tsuru Sennin, Babidi, Dabura, Majin Boo the list goes...

Raditz would make an excellent addition to Vegeta-caliber character
How can you have Muten Roshi as an example but the mother of all wasted characters (Yamcha)?
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by omaro34 » Sun Mar 20, 2016 8:41 pm

Vijay wrote:Underutilized, underused, undervalued: 3 words synonymous to almost 99% DragonBall characters

Including Raditz, there are a TON of characters "kept simple in vintage Toriyama style". Ex: Muten Rishi, Pilaf, Commander Red, Black, Silver Shogun, White Shogun, Android 8, Tao Pai Pai, Tsuru Sennin, Babidi, Dabura, Majin Boo the list goes...

Raditz would make an excellent addition to Vegeta-caliber character
Dragonball is notorious for its lack of utilizing the large and diverse cast it has. Super hasn't shown any different for the main original cast.

You can add Yamcha, Korin, Yajirobe, Tenshinhan, Ox King, Android 18, Dende, Videl, and Mr. Popo to your list. Nearly everybody watching the tournament in Super are just decoration for those spectator seats at this point. I don't think many of those characters I mentioned even uttered a word in the last few episodes of this tournament.
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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by MozillaVulpix » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:53 am

I personally enjoy how little he does and how weak he is compared to Nappa and Vegeta later on. I'm never a fan of the idea that the main character's family is all special and amazing pretty much just because they're related to the main character. Raditz being seen as so weak later on highlights how Goku DOESN'T have some blessed bloodline of uber-powerful Saiyans with the unique ability to empathise with others because...reasons. Goku's brother is just a common Saiyan thug, and a weak one at that.

Although he was a pretty great villain to highlight just how much Goku, Piccolo and the others had to go in being the strongest. He introduced aliens to the story pretty well.
I could have gotten into anything...and yet I chose the story aimed at young Japanese boys about martial arts, and later about super-powerful aliens punching each other really hard.

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:05 am

omaro34 wrote:
Vijay wrote:Underutilized, underused, undervalued: 3 words synonymous to almost 99% DragonBall characters

Including Raditz, there are a TON of characters "kept simple in vintage Toriyama style". Ex: Muten Rishi, Pilaf, Commander Red, Black, Silver Shogun, White Shogun, Android 8, Tao Pai Pai, Tsuru Sennin, Babidi, Dabura, Majin Boo the list goes...

Raditz would make an excellent addition to Vegeta-caliber character
Dragonball is notorious for its lack of utilizing the large and diverse cast it has. Super hasn't shown any different for the main original cast.

You can add Yamcha, Korin, Yajirobe, Tenshinhan, Ox King, Android 18, Dende, Videl, and Mr. Popo to your list. Nearly everybody watching the tournament in Super are just decoration for those spectator seats at this point. I don't think many of those characters I mentioned even uttered a word in the last few episodes of this tournament.
I don't think Korin, Tien, #18, Mr. Popo, or Videl got it that bad... they were simply outclassed. Dende didn't get shafted either.

Don't forget the Kaioshins (particularly East Kaioshin), Kibito, Dr. Gero, Pan (GT), Bebi, Oob (GT), and Chi-Chi.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by sintzu » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:23 am

omaro34 wrote:
Dragonball is notorious for its lack of utilizing the large and diverse cast it has.
Z wasn't. everyone from the heroes to the villains got their fair share of screen time which is why Z's characters have so many fans.

Can anyone say that Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Gotenks & Future Trunks didn't get to shine ? even the earthlings who were outclassed got to shine every now and then.

Krillin cutting off Freeza's tail and killing 4 saibamen, Tien holding off Cell, Chiaotzu sacrificing himself to kill Nappa, and and Yamcha (insert moment here) are all great examples of the well utilization of the characters.

The majority of the secondary villains also got a lot of shining moments like Zarbon, the Ginyu force and the androids.

DB, GT & Super on the other hand...
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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by Kuririn Fan » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:47 am

DB only has 1 arc where Goku is the most important and even that arc is tournament and focuses on all the fighters. GT is ridiculous on the other hand, just Goku, Goku, Goku, Goku.

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by LuckyCat » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:48 pm

I like Radditz; he's a wake-up boss. He's similar to what Piccolo was for Dragon Ball and what Beerus is for Super. I wouldn't want to see any further development of him, though. He really nailed the scenes he was in, and bringing him back would either be 1) Unnecessary exposition of Radditz's past or 2) Reviving an extremely powerless character to be used in future adventures.

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by omaro34 » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:29 am

sintzu wrote:
omaro34 wrote:
Dragonball is notorious for its lack of utilizing the large and diverse cast it has.
Z wasn't. everyone from the heroes to the villains got their fair share of screen time which is why Z's characters have so many fans.

Can anyone say that Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Gotenks & Future Trunks didn't get to shine ? even the earthlings who were outclassed got to shine every now and then.

Krillin cutting off Freeza's tail and killing 4 saibamen, Tien holding off Cell, Chiaotzu sacrificing himself to kill Nappa, and and Yamcha (insert moment here) are all great examples of the well utilization of the characters.

The majority of the secondary villains also got a lot of shining moments like Zarbon, the Ginyu force and the androids.

DB, GT & Super on the other hand...
I agree with you. Perhaps I should have been more specific with my statement. But I do think Dragonball (the first series), used its cast pretty effectively. The humans were relevant back then, Tenshinhan had his own Arc, Yamcha had his moments in the tournaments, Piccolo was the main antagonist, and the fights were more based on technique than sheer power.

However, I absolutely 100% agree with you on GT and Super thus far. Worse yet, GT never really teased you with characters having major roles. Everyone knew Goku would come save the day at the end. Super teased us cruelly with Vegeta not getting the kill against Freeza, and of course my main man Piccolo forfeiting his match in the tournament after his disqualification win.

I'll judge Super more harshly as the series ends. Time will tell the story.
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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by TheUltimateVegito » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:41 am

dbzfan7 wrote:
It's oddly the video game what if's that kinda bring more interesting stories from the character.
Fateful Brothers anyone?
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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by Draconic » Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:07 pm

Him being Goku's brother and also a weakling in the grand scheme of things helps set up the whole "low-class vs elite" stuff against Vegeta. Raditz is trash and treated as such even by his comarades, but Goku is even weaker than that, he is lower than trash, so for him to eventually put up a fight against Vegeta, the elite warrior, is unbelievable. Raditz creates a much deeper connection between Goku and his class, than just a bunch of numbers.
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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by Darkton » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:01 pm

He had serious potential. Unfortunately, Grand Elder Toriyama decided not to unleash it and just give it to Goku as always.

Actually, if I had to write a survivor Z-Fighter Raditz, I'd make him a parody of Vegeta, talking about how awesome and powerful the Saiyans are, how you're totally screwed to be facing one today... only to be defeated in humiliating ways. Hey, if he's gonna be the Yamcha of the Saiyans, why not make him an entertaining one?

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by Duo » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:43 pm

Raditz is one of the most effectively used characters in the entire narrative in Dragon Ball. His family connection makes the situation personal, he shows Goku and Piccolo how little they really are, sets up motivation and context for a far greater threat, and exits gracefully in a brutal and memorable fashion (not to mention being tied into the poetry of Piccolo finally getting his revenge).

I am sincerely glad that he has never been touched upon again. He is among the most intelligently utilized characters Toriyama ever put to paper.

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by apex_pretador » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:28 am

Duo wrote:Raditz is one of the most effectively used characters in the entire narrative in Dragon Ball. His family connection makes the situation personal, he shows Goku and Piccolo how little they really are, sets up motivation and context for a far greater threat, and exits gracefully in a brutal and memorable fashion (not to mention being tied into the poetry of Piccolo finally getting his revenge).

I am sincerely glad that he has never been touched upon again. He is among the most intelligently utilized characters Toriyama ever put to paper.
I agree with everything in this.

He was the biggest challenge by far goku had ever forced. Goku - who surpassed the demon, then surpassed god himself, BY FAR, and Piccolo - the son of demon, the enemy of goku, always bloodlusted, surpassed the god by far - the two fighters who fought the bloodiest fight in the DB history, where everyone else, god included was so useless that weakened piccolo was stronger than a thousand of these levelers, were one-shot material for raditz.
Goku won after a hard-fought battle, in the most brutal moments of the fight, with a hole in his chest & all his limbs broken, and was FORCED to keep piccolo alive, unlike vegeta, who he could've got killed, but kept alive only because "I want to beat him alone one day" or freeza, who somehow survived. He couldn't kill piccolo because if he dies, DB's die, Kami dies, everything is over. However , piccolo was bound by no such limitation, as he could've killed goku anytime. Seeing these two team-up is a bigger turning point of the series than seeing vegeta & gohan team up against Freeza.


Plus, seeing a big bad against another big bad is always a plus.
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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by Khin » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:36 am

sintzu wrote:
omaro34 wrote:
Dragonball is notorious for its lack of utilizing the large and diverse cast it has.
Z wasn't. everyone from the heroes to the villains got their fair share of screen time which is why Z's characters have so many fans.

Can anyone say that Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Gotenks & Future Trunks didn't get to shine ? even the earthlings who were outclassed got to shine every now and then.

Krillin cutting off Freeza's tail and killing 4 saibamen, Tien holding off Cell, Chiaotzu sacrificing himself to kill Nappa, and and Yamcha (insert moment here) are all great examples of the well utilization of the characters.

The majority of the secondary villains also got a lot of shining moments like Zarbon, the Ginyu force and the androids.

DB, GT & Super on the other hand...
Chi Chi,Roshi and several other characters didn't get a time to shine in Z.

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:01 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
sintzu wrote:
omaro34 wrote:
Dragonball is notorious for its lack of utilizing the large and diverse cast it has.
Z wasn't. everyone from the heroes to the villains got their fair share of screen time which is why Z's characters have so many fans.

Can anyone say that Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo, Gotenks & Future Trunks didn't get to shine ? even the earthlings who were outclassed got to shine every now and then.

Krillin cutting off Freeza's tail and killing 4 saibamen, Tien holding off Cell, Chiaotzu sacrificing himself to kill Nappa, and and Yamcha (insert moment here) are all great examples of the well utilization of the characters.

The majority of the secondary villains also got a lot of shining moments like Zarbon, the Ginyu force and the androids.

DB, GT & Super on the other hand...
Chi Chi,Roshi and several other characters didn't get a time to shine in Z.
Don't forget Yamcha, Chiaotzu, and Lunch (she was outright axed from the series). Those guys got it worse (than Roshi, at least).

In fact, Z practically shatted on Yamcha and Chi-Chi.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by Kuririn Fan » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:08 am

Chi Chi was never shining. Yamcha and Chiaotzu were always losers. Lunch was mentioned in Saiyan arc and she was a one note character anyway. And ma boy Roshi passed the torch, but he still kicked ass in RoF.

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by Desassina » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:44 am

He could have been worse. Imagine that, for Dead Zone to happen in the same continuity, the only change we made was Raditz dying to Piccolo's first Makankosappo. Gohan wouldn't reveal his power, and we wouldn't get to see Goku being merciful towards his manipulative brother.

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Re: Thoughts on Raditz

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:05 pm

Duo wrote:Raditz is one of the most effectively used characters in the entire narrative in Dragon Ball. His family connection makes the situation personal, he shows Goku and Piccolo how little they really are, sets up motivation and context for a far greater threat, and exits gracefully in a brutal and memorable fashion (not to mention being tied into the poetry of Piccolo finally getting his revenge).

I am sincerely glad that he has never been touched upon again. He is among the most intelligently utilized characters Toriyama ever put to paper.
This.

Raditz had specific roles to fill: showing Goku that there was a much stronger enemy out there, transitioning the story into a more sci-fi tale, and showing that Goku's family on Earth were more important than his family by blood. Raditz doesn't really matter as a character in and of himself; he's a plot device to develop Goku. And he works perfectly.
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