Thoughts on Raditz

[Duo]

I appreciate the positive responses to my post. I never quite got the point in bringing some of these characters back, at least in the official sense. It's refreshing to have a few characters that get used well, and then are left at that. Episode of Bardock wasn't very enjoyable for me.

[apex_pretador]

. I never quite got the point in bringing some of these characters back

like a completely trashing on the greatest villain:


Mecha freeza was so bad to freeza's character, that it turned him a joke.

[Kuririn Fan]

. I never quite got the point in bringing some of these characters back

like a completely trashing on the greatest villain:


Mecha freeza was so bad to freeza's character, that it turned him a joke.

Not necessarily. It was needed for Trunks' introduction, which is one of the most badass moments ever.

[Akira]

Great points and even good theories/opinions on some what-if situations guys.

Only thing I have to add is that the Z Anime had a few flashback scenes during the Freeza arc that were showing parts of Vegeta's past where Raditz appeared with him and Nappa. I would also like to point out that Freeza (while in his third form) was contemplating to himself about where Gohan came from. He says to himself that he was fairly certain he'd eliminated all of the Saiyans aside from Vegeta, Nappa, and Raditz many years back. Then upon uttering that name, notices some familiarity between Gohan and Raditz and wonders if he could possibly be Raditz's son. (He had at that point not seen Goku, and had no idea there was one more Saiyan healing up on his ship as he was fighting Vegeta and his earthling allies.)

So, in that sense, Raditz's role is fully utilized on all fronts. Not quite 100% vanished without further appearance or mention, but close to it. The only redeemable Saiyan among the three Freeza spared, was actually Vegeta. The core of Raditz is very clear, he was a killer and an evil guy. He would never change, and Piccolo killing him was going to be necessary to eliminate the threat he posed. He served his purpose, as others mentioned prior to this response. I too would have liked another reference or afterlife appearance in filler, but he was ultimately an obstacle to overcome and nothing more. Someone to raise the bar for the protagonists and carry the plot forward. Anything else may have been just stretching it out needlessly.

That's what is so great about Toriyama's work, even his minor throwaway characters are so well written and fleshed out that we have discussions like this about them.

[Duo]

That's what is so great about Toriyama's work, even his minor throwaway characters are so well written and fleshed out that we have discussions like this about them.

If anything, I wish there were more discussions of this sort taking place. But they also tend to run out of steam unless there's a debate to be had, so it is what it is.

[gohann]

I liked his "what if?" saga in Tenkaichi 2 so I guess that's something.

[TheMikado]

That's what is so great about Toriyama's work, even his minor throwaway characters are so well written and fleshed out that we have discussions like this about them.

If anything, I wish there were more discussions of this sort taking place. But they also tend to run out of steam unless there's a debate to be had, so it is what it is.

What?? That's like the opposite of what we're discussing. I.e. Radditz has a significant back story and connection to Goku and thrown away like all of dragon balls other siblings. That's terrible writing, like Goku never wonders if he has other family? Brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparent, etc. A Grandpa Karrot would be a character I would be interested in knowing about. Like make even some family link to the original SSG would be cool. Nope nothing. How you can take such a substantial link and literally do nothingnwith it and give it no emotional reference is beyond me. It's like Goku doesn't even want to know or wonder about his birth family at all. How can he not wonder what his own parents were like and what kind of people they were.

[Kamiccolo9]

It's like Goku doesn't even want to know or wonder about his birth family at all. How can he not wonder what his own parents were like and what kind of people they were.

He doesn't. That's the point.

[Duo]

What?? That's like the opposite of what we're discussing. I.e. Radditz has a significant back story and connection to Goku and thrown away like all of dragon balls other siblings. That's terrible writing, like Goku never wonders if he has other family? Brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandparent, etc. A Grandpa Karrot would be a character I would be interested in knowing about. Like make even some family link to the original SSG would be cool. Nope nothing. How you can take such a substantial link and literally do nothingnwith it and give it no emotional reference is beyond me. It's like Goku doesn't even want to know or wonder about his birth family at all. How can he not wonder what his own parents were like and what kind of people they were.

Because that's who Goku is as a character. Raditz is why he isn't concerned about all of that. Vegeta exists as a character to carry on the pride and spirit of the Saiyan race. Goku is something different, and having him get all concerned about that sort of thing would contradict his character and also take away from Vegeta's unique role in the story.

Like I said, it's great writing.

[TheMikado]

It's like Goku doesn't even want to know or wonder about his birth family at all. How can he not wonder what his own parents were like and what kind of people they were.

He doesn't. That's the point.

So you just found out you're an alien from another planet and your alien brother has come looking for you on earth and you don't have any questions at all... Seriously.

[Kamiccolo9]

So you just found out you're an alien from another planet and your alien brother has come looking for you on earth and you don't have any questions at all... Seriously.

If I'm Goku, then yes. He was raised in the middle of the woods away from everyone else. He doesn't deal with familial structure like "normal" people.

Goku doesn't care about the Saiyans. His response to Freeza killing them was that they "probably deserved it."

And if you were adopted, and found out that your brother, who was considered "the good child," was a kidnapping, mass murdering psychopath, would you be that curious to learn more about the family?

[TheMikado]

So you just found out you're an alien from another planet and your alien brother has come looking for you on earth and you don't have any questions at all... Seriously.

If I'm Goku, then yes. He was raised in the middle of the woods away from everyone else. He doesn't deal with familial structure like "normal" people.

Goku doesn't care about the Saiyans. His response to Freeza killing them was that they "probably deserved it."

And if you were adopted, and found out that your brother, who was considered "the good child," was a kidnapping, mass murdering psychopath, would you be that curious to learn more about the family?

What? In fact he tells Frieza multiple times he's going to get revenge on him for the saiyans?? Where did the line even come from? More importantly if I found out my brother and the rest of my family were potentially kidnapping, mass murdering psychopath ALIENS and not only did I not question but showed ZERO interest in knowing anything about it all, that would be the strangest thing in the world. Seriously what normal person, or even fictional person wouldn't have at least a few questions.

Like the scenario is so "pun intended" alien and obsurd to not question it is crazy. If Goku just learned that he was adopted, that's no big deal.

Goku wasn't interested because of Radditz, but after eventually making peace with Vegeta you would think he would be more interested in Saiyans in general. And Gohan who's a scholar should really be interested in saiyan history especially since he's half Alien.

[Kamiccolo9]

So you just found out you're an alien from another planet and your alien brother has come looking for you on earth and you don't have any questions at all... Seriously.

If I'm Goku, then yes. He was raised in the middle of the woods away from everyone else. He doesn't deal with familial structure like "normal" people.

Goku doesn't care about the Saiyans. His response to Freeza killing them was that they "probably deserved it."

And if you were adopted, and found out that your brother, who was considered "the good child," was a kidnapping, mass murdering psychopath, would you be that curious to learn more about the family?

What? In fact he tells Frieza multiple times he's going to get revenge on him for the saiyans?? Where did the line even come from? More importantly if I found out my brother and the rest of my family were potentially kidnapping, mass murdering psychopath ALIENS and not only did I not question but showed ZERO interest in knowing anything about it all, that would be the strangest thing in the world. Seriously what normal person, or even fictional person wouldn't have at least a few questions.

Like the scenario is so "pun intended" alien and obsurd to not question it is crazy. If Goku just learned that he was adopted, that's no big deal.

Goku wasn't interested because of Radditz, but after eventually making peace with Vegeta you would think he would be more interested in Saiyans in general. And Gohan who's a scholar should really be interested in saiyan history especially since he's half Alien.

We've established before that your primary method of viewing the material is through the Funimation Dub. That's fine. Enjoy it all you want.

But, as I told you in that Vegeta conversation a while back, it doesn't accurately portray the characters. You have no idea what people are talking about because you are watching an entirely different show.

[Bansho64]

Mikado I think you really need to look at it from a different perspective. How exactly would Raditz be used? He was a cold hearted, bloodthirsty killer who cared nothing about human life. All he would do is either get killed by Vegeta or someone else sooner or later. There was no chance of change for him.

[TheMikado]

Mikado I think you really need to look at it from a different perspective. How exactly would Raditz be used? He was a cold hearted, bloodthirsty killer who cared nothing about human life. All he would do is either get killed by Vegeta or someone else sooner or later. There was no chance of change for him.

Why was Vegeta's or piccolos opportunity for redemption greater than Radditz?

Also ignoring the dub/manga snubs who constantly police the source material. If that's someone's only rebuttal then we have nothing to discuss. Especially when nothing I said is manga/dub specific.

[Danfun64]

Also ignoring the dub/manga snubs who constantly police the source material. If that's someone's only rebuttal then we have nothing to discuss. Especially when nothing I said is manga/dub specific.

What is a manga snub? Are you saying that anime filler that contradicts the manga is what's really true, and the only version worth talking about is the japanese version of the anime?

[Bansho64]

Mikado I think you really need to look at it from a different perspective. How exactly would Raditz be used? He was a cold hearted, bloodthirsty killer who cared nothing about human life. All he would do is either get killed by Vegeta or someone else sooner or later. There was no chance of change for him.

Why was Vegeta's or piccolos opportunity for redemption greater than Radditz?

Also ignoring the dub/manga snubs who constantly police the source material. If that's someone's only rebuttal then we have nothing to discuss. Especially when nothing I said is manga/dub specific.

Piccolo had Gohan. I have no excuse for Vegeta. No-one's trying to police anything. All Kamicollo9 was trying to state is that two different versions have different versions of characters. That's all. Sorry if it seems like people are trying to force anything on ya but I promise you that's not the case.

[Duo]

Why was Vegeta's or piccolos opportunity for redemption greater than Radditz?

Also ignoring the dub/manga snubs who constantly police the source material. If that's someone's only rebuttal then we have nothing to discuss. Especially when nothing I said is manga/dub specific.

I have seen a lot of snubbery in my day, and none of that has taken place here. Would you be willing to explain yourself more clearly? And why exactly is it a problem that we have a different stance on an entirely subjective matter? The way you are presenting yourself is not helpful to fostering a positive discussion on this subject.

[DBZAOTA482]

Mikado I think you really need to look at it from a different perspective. How exactly would Raditz be used? He was a cold hearted, bloodthirsty killer who cared nothing about human life. All he would do is either get killed by Vegeta or someone else sooner or later. There was no chance of change for him.

Raditz had a far better chance of reforming than Vegeta. Vegeta was an elitist douchebag who cared about nothing but himself while Raditz actually seemed to have valued his people.

[TheMikado]

Why was Vegeta's or piccolos opportunity for redemption greater than Radditz?

Also ignoring the dub/manga snubs who constantly police the source material. If that's someone's only rebuttal then we have nothing to discuss. Especially when nothing I said is manga/dub specific.

I have seen a lot of snubbery in my day, and none of that has taken place here. Would you be willing to explain yourself more clearly? And why exactly is it a problem that we have a different stance on an entirely subjective matter? The way you are presenting yourself is not helpful to fostering a positive discussion on this subject.

Sure allow me to explain. I another thread discussing Vegeta's character it was stated that my understanding of the character was based on filler/inaccurate dubs. The same people as now saying my reasons for not having the correct opinion of Radditz are for the same reasons when in fact I said NOTHING that wasn't in the manga and they used my opinions and comments in ANOTHER thread about ANOTHER character to question my understanding of this character despite the manga/dubs/anime being near identical on this character. Basically they are stating my opinion, even on material which is consistent between all media is invalid because of my position on other unrelated filler/dubs. This is snobbery and elitism and runs rampant in here to the point where if you aren't reading the original Japanese manga your opinion is invalid. I would expect differences of opinion and welcome them. They make us better and more informed fans.

Mikado I think you really need to look at it from a different perspective. How exactly would Raditz be used? He was a cold hearted, bloodthirsty killer who cared nothing about human life. All he would do is either get killed by Vegeta or someone else sooner or later. There was no chance of change for him.

Raditz had a far better chance of reforming than Vegeta. Vegeta was an elitist douchebag who cared about nothing but himself while Raditz actually seemed to have valued his people.

Exactly, Radditz actually would have had a vested interest in redemption. its fine that it didn't, but considering The Dragonball series is basically all about Gokus story I feel it's definitely a missed opportunity to open up Goku as a person and beyond that I would expect at least Gohan and ChiChi to be curious and have questions. Let's not act like everything in Dragonball is beyond reproach.

While we are at it, how do we rectify Dragonball Minus?? Goku clearly knows his parents as he is 3 years old looking out at them from the pod and wearing Saiyan armor. At three years old he should at least be able to talk (barely) and know his name unless we are going with the Saiyans suddenly living a lot longer and he was still similar to an infant. So what happened to his original space armor. I understand Dragonball Minus is canon because it's Akiras manga.