Thoughts on Cell arc

[omaro34]

It's my favorite Arc in the entire series. It's the first Arc where Goku's actions from the previous series is the sole reason why this Arc even existed, which is when Goku failed to completely destroy the Red Ribbon Army.

This arc used its cast pretty effectively. The humans had their moments, and Future Trunks is a catalyst as to why people like the Cell Arc. his popularity boosted this Arc even more.

I'm also a bit biased because Piccolo is my favorite character, and he definitely had moments to shine in this Arc. His fight against 17 was one for the ages, and his willingness to help Gohan during the final beam battle against Cell by being the first fighter to do the unthinkable is truly a testament to Piccolo's overall development as a character.

Yes, a couple characters in this Arc made some bonehead decisions. An example is when Krillin smashed the remote to destroy 18 and let her escape, and the other is when Vegeta let Cell become complete and even hurt his own son in the process. However, it all worked in the end. Krillin married the love of his life and the Saiyans became stronger after fighting Perfect Cell. A legitimate argument can be made in that if Vegeta hadn't let Cell become complete, the Z fighters as a whole wouldn't be nearly as strong for future threats such as Majin Buu. I'm also not going to forget when Goku gave Cell a Senzu bean, because that wasn't the smartest thing to do either.

Overall, it was a great Arc. A plethora of the cast got to shine, the martial arts competition idea was brought back from Dragonball, and the foreshadowing for how powerful Gohan could be in the future became a reality.

[ABED]

Just call it Second Hunt for the Dbs and problem solved. Or, watch senpai Gaffer Tape/ Mistare Fusion and get enlightened.

The arcs in DB are defined by their central antagonist, except in cases where there is no antagonist like the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. I don't see why you would lump Fortuneteller Baba's tournament together with the Red Ribbon Army besides Goku bringing back a character that was killed towards the end of the arc which also happened in the Vegeta/Saiyan and Freeza arcs.

Regarding the Cell arc, I wouldn't call the characters stupid. They wanted to fight strong beings so they let Dr. Gero create them. They were wrong for letting it happen but not stupid. They have a goal (fighting strong beings) and took steps to achieve that goal.

[Kuririn Fan]

Just call it Second Hunt for the Dbs and problem solved. Or, watch senpai Gaffer Tape/ Mistare Fusion and get enlightened.

The arcs in DB are defined by their central antagonist, except in cases where there is no antagonist like the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. I don't see why you would lump Fortuneteller Baba's tournament together with the Red Ribbon Army besides Goku bringing back a character that was killed towards the end of the arc which also happened in the Vegeta/Saiyan and Freeza arcs.

Regarding the Cell arc, I wouldn't call the characters stupid. They wanted to fight strong beings so they let Dr. Gero create them. They were wrong for letting it happen but not stupid. They have a goal (fighting strong beings) and took steps to achieve that goal.

Look, dude, everyone has their own arc division. I just happen to have the same as my mentor, watch his videos and you will see.

[DonAce]

When I was younger I loved it! I mean, I think when you're young it's pretty cathartic to watch Gohan humiliate Cell, when he's the same age as you. Stern face, cool transformation, he's just not taking any shit! Unfortunately, I reread this again in the manga not too long ago and ,unfortunately, it was my least favorite arc in the series. It lacks focus, it jumps from antagonist to antagonist and it's climax feels too familiar. I mean, really? A transformation talked about all through the arc finally manifesting itself in our hero after a traumatic murder of someone else? It's boring, it's bland and it's predictable. Also, it's just frustrating to watch the characters behave the way they do and how it just drags this arc out. It's just a series of characters making absolutely moronic decisions one after the other until they just have to fall back on yet another transformation. It just ends up adding so little to the Dragon Ball universe other than some concept of time travel, which is fairly neat. Overall, I struggle to find anything particular wonderful about this arc, other than the introduction of Mister Satan. God speed, you magnificent bastard.

[Soppa Saia People]

Just call it Second Hunt for the Dbs and problem solved. Or, watch senpai Gaffer Tape/ Mistare Fusion and get enlightened.

The arcs in DB are defined by their central antagonist, except in cases where there is no antagonist like the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. I don't see why you would lump Fortuneteller Baba's tournament together with the Red Ribbon Army besides Goku bringing back a character that was killed towards the end of the arc which also happened in the Vegeta/Saiyan and Freeza arcs.

Regarding the Cell arc, I wouldn't call the characters stupid. They wanted to fight strong beings so they let Dr. Gero create them. They were wrong for letting it happen but not stupid. They have a goal (fighting strong beings) and took steps to achieve that goal.

Look, dude, everyone has their own arc division. I just happen to have the same as my mentor, watch his videos and you will see.

No offense but you're kinda licking Gaffer's ass. No offense to Gaffer I find my self agree with most of his post, but you're kinda taking it a bit to far

[Kuririn Fan]

I'm talking like that as a joke, i respect the guy because he introduced me to the real show. There was no need for that comment.

[DonAce]

Just call it Second Hunt for the Dbs and problem solved. Or, watch senpai Gaffer Tape/ Mistare Fusion and get enlightened.

The arcs in DB are defined by their central antagonist, except in cases where there is no antagonist like the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. I don't see why you would lump Fortuneteller Baba's tournament together with the Red Ribbon Army besides Goku bringing back a character that was killed towards the end of the arc which also happened in the Vegeta/Saiyan and Freeza arcs.

Regarding the Cell arc, I wouldn't call the characters stupid. They wanted to fight strong beings so they let Dr. Gero create them. They were wrong for letting it happen but not stupid. They have a goal (fighting strong beings) and took steps to achieve that goal.

You can say this, but this doesn't make this anymore satisfying when you're experiencing the plot. It just becomes a bunch of assholes dragging things out just because they feel like. The arc feels so unfocused as it is, going from antagonist to antagonist and then it pads itself out by having these assholes say "Nah get strong so I can see how strong I am." This isn't a fun story as far as I see it, it's hardly even a story after a certain point, it just becomes a bunch of assholes fight each other, which is when Dragon Ball is at its worst.

[Gorou]

Goku, since becoming an adult, has always been an "asshole" who preferred to fight strong opponents, so I don't see the point. Vegeta idem (the arrogance is his main trait). Indeed, this is the only arc in DBZ where the "stupid" (put between commas because whenever I analyze those decisions i find always some intrinsic logic, which nobody can deny) decisions are justified and built (in the other bows have done worse, without any justification, which is drastically worse) and the only where Goku is not coming to mind the silly idea of spare the final enemy in order to have a future rival.

[ABED]

The arc feels so unfocused as it is, going from antagonist to antagonist

That isn't unfocused at all. That's the mystery. It's all building towards Cell.

it just becomes a bunch of assholes fight each other, which is when Dragon Ball is at its worst.

Dragon Ball at it's worst is when they don't have any good fights.

[DBZAOTA482]

Just call it Second Hunt for the Dbs and problem solved. Or, watch senpai Gaffer Tape/ Mistare Fusion and get enlightened.

The arcs in DB are defined by their central antagonist, except in cases where there is no antagonist like the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. I don't see why you would lump Fortuneteller Baba's tournament together with the Red Ribbon Army besides Goku bringing back a character that was killed towards the end of the arc which also happened in the Vegeta/Saiyan and Freeza arcs.

Regarding the Cell arc, I wouldn't call the characters stupid. They wanted to fight strong beings so they let Dr. Gero create them. They were wrong for letting it happen but not stupid. They have a goal (fighting strong beings) and took steps to achieve that goal.

You can say this, but this doesn't make this anymore satisfying when you're experiencing the plot. It just becomes a bunch of assholes dragging things out just because they feel like. The arc feels so unfocused as it is, going from antagonist to antagonist and then it pads itself out by having these assholes say "Nah get strong so I can see how strong I am." This isn't a fun story as far as I see it, it's hardly even a story after a certain point, it just becomes a bunch of assholes fight each other, which is when Dragon Ball is at its worst.

Only Vegeta was like that. Everyone else, especially Trunks and Piccolo, were pretty serious about the situation.

Want assholes being assholes to extend the plot? Try 2/3's of the Majin Boo Saga.

[ABED]

Piccolo was serious, but don't forget that he willingly went along with Goku's plan.

[Gaffer Tape]

EVERYONE went along with Goku's plan. But then, suddenly, three years later, everyone but Vegeta is suddenly proactive. "Oh, we must stop #17 and #18 BEFORE they're activated." "Oh, we must stop Cell BEFORE he's complete!" They completely and utterly flip flop for no reason except that the plot demands them be responsible now, when before, being responsible would have kept the plot from progressing.

[Gorou]

EVERYONE went along with Goku's plan. But then, suddenly, three years later, everyone but Vegeta is suddenly proactive. "Oh, we must stop #17 and #18 BEFORE they're activated." "Oh, we must stop Cell BEFORE he's complete!" They completely and utterly flip flop for no reason except that the plot demands them be responsible now, when before, being responsible would have kept the plot from progressing.

Placed directly in front of the threat (there is a big difference between hearing about a terrible event and confront firsthand with the event) in the absence of Goku (temporarily unable to fight), they decided to act with more meticulously, encouraged by Trunks. I see nothing to outrageous.
The situation is parallel to that of the Saiyan saga, when they haven't even thought about (this is real stupidity) to stop the sayan's ships with the Dragon balls.
Here at least was given a motivation: respect for the will of Goku.

[ABED]

EVERYONE went along with Goku's plan. But then, suddenly, three years later, everyone but Vegeta is suddenly proactive. "Oh, we must stop #17 and #18 BEFORE they're activated." "Oh, we must stop Cell BEFORE he's complete!" They completely and utterly flip flop for no reason except that the plot demands them be responsible now, when before, being responsible would have kept the plot from progressing.

I don't know if "because plot" would be the words I would choose, but if they are going to change their minds, at least I would've liked to have seen them explicitly mention that they regret going along with the plan of allowing Dr. Gero to create them.

when they haven't even thought about (this is real stupidity) to stop the sayan's ships with the Dragon balls.

Well, at least there, I think there's a time limit on how much time can pass before you can't revive someone. But yes, it was stupid of them not to think of destroying the Saiyan spaceships. Maybe Shen Long doesn't have the power to destroy them for whatever reason, but he should be able to destroy a space ship. That would've been an interesting question, do you bring back your friend or destroy the enemy before they arrive. Not that I think reviving Goku wouldn't be the right thing, nor would that make our heroes any less heroic for choosing to bring back their friend instead of destroying the Saiyans before they arrive. We see those sorts of dilemmas all the time in stories. In Buffy, the Mayor took Willow hostage and demanded her in exchange for an item he needed to fulfll his plan. While there was at least some argument over what the right thing was, without hesitation, Oz (Willow's boyfriend) made sure the Scoobies couldn't destroy the item.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, at least there, I think there's a time limit on how much time can pass before you can't revive someone.

There isn't. There is a time limit to reviving large groups of people. And in the Piccolo arc, they were going to use the Dragon Balls to destroy Piccolo and bring Kuririn back the next time.

[ABED]

Well, at least there, I think there's a time limit on how much time can pass before you can't revive someone.

There isn't. There is a time limit to reviving large groups of people. And in the Piccolo arc, they were going to use the Dragon Balls to destroy Piccolo and bring Kuririn back the next time.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I recall a time limit as being the reason Son Gohan couldn't be revived even if he wanted to. It's not as though Toriyama didn't play fast and loose with the rules he established.

[Kuririn Fan]

Well, at least there, I think there's a time limit on how much time can pass before you can't revive someone.

There isn't. There is a time limit to reviving large groups of people. And in the Piccolo arc, they were going to use the Dragon Balls to destroy Piccolo and bring Kuririn back the next time.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I recall a time limit as being the reason Son Gohan couldn't be revived even if he wanted to. It's not as though Toriyama didn't play fast and loose with the rules he established.

No, Gohan didn't want to be revived. There's no time limit for individual revival, that's why Freeza was able to come back.

[ABED]

Hence "even if he wanted to".

There's no time limit for individual revival, that's why Freeza was able to come back.

Which wouldn't be the first time Toriyama created a plot hole. For instance, the Dragon Balls take a year to recharge after use, but from the time Oolong makes his wish until Goku goes on his quest for the 4 star ball is a few months shy of a year.

[Kuririn Fan]

Hence "even if he wanted to".

There's no time limit for individual revival, that's why Freeza was able to come back.

Which wouldn't be the first time Toriyama created a plot hole. For instance, the Dragon Balls take a year to recharge after use, but from the time Oolong makes his wish until Goku goes on his quest for the 4 star ball is a few months shy of a year.

There is no such rule, man, go rewatch that part. There's only 1 year limit for mass revivals.

[ABED]

Hence "even if he wanted to".

There's no time limit for individual revival, that's why Freeza was able to come back.

Which wouldn't be the first time Toriyama created a plot hole. For instance, the Dragon Balls take a year to recharge after use, but from the time Oolong makes his wish until Goku goes on his quest for the 4 star ball is a few months shy of a year.

There is no such rule, man, go rewatch that part. There's only 1 year limit for mass revivals.

Which part? And when did it say there was a limit of a year for mass revivals?