Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

As others have said Beerus was nervous because Kaioken multiplies the users power.

The series is fine power level wise, it never used Toriyama's numbers and has that tree vs castle analogy that confirms SSG as weak. I think people just want to find fault in Super no matter what.

Hope you're not including me in that lot of people.

I just can't make peace with it, I would have to jump to many hops to reach a reasonable list. Which is near impossible to me and unsatisfying. Even disregarding Mr.Toriyama numbers, which I agree only apply to the movies.

I just think the anime cares more about the spectacle, instead of applying consistent power differences. The Piccolo fight is another confusing case, he's supposed to be weaker than Frost, yet he is able to defend his attacks with one hand, while charging a makankosappo. That doesn't seem right to me.

Anyway, if you want to discuss the power levels using the manga as a source, I'm up for it.

I'll pass. The manga lost me with the way they treated Piccolo.

[RandomGuy96]

Quick question. In the newest episodes, is Hit actually stronger than KK x10 Goku, on par, or just good enough to hang in there?

[ZombieVito]

Quick question. In the newest episodes, is Hit actually stronger than KK x10 Goku, on par, or just good enough to hang in there?

You are not watching the episodes? Anyway, Hit's time skip ability seems like Kaioken in a way. The longer he stops time the more powerful his hits (lol) are.

After using an even better time skip than last episode (I personally think he upgraded it to 1 second for neatness) he almost takes Goku out with a lot of rapid attacks but Goku regains himself and with one punch puts Hit on his knees.

[RandomGuy96]

Quick question. In the newest episodes, is Hit actually stronger than KK x10 Goku, on par, or just good enough to hang in there?

You are not watching the episodes?

Mostly I have, but I've been busy recently and have been lacking interest. I haven't seen the latest two.

Anyway, Hit's time skip ability seems like Kaioken in a way. The longer he stops time the more powerful his hits (lol) are.
After using an even better time skip than last episode (I personally think he upgraded it to 1 second for neatness) he almost takes Goku out with a lot of rapid attacks but Goku regains himself and with one punch puts Hit on his knees.

So... KK x10 Goku's a good deal stronger? You make it sound like Hit is only competitive via his ability to stop time, which makes him too fast for Goku to counter, and that in raw strength Goku outstrips him. Though I'm not sure why stopping time would make his hits more powerful?

[ZombieVito]

Goku (At the brink of going down) wrecked Hit with one punch and Hit wasn't using his time skip at that time. This quote implies Hits attacks are stronger while using the time skip.

Context: Goku stands up and begins to plan ahead.

　12:24 | Goku: "Hit's powered up attack really hurt."
　12:31 | Goku: "I can only take a couple more of 'em at best."
　12:35 | Goku: "But... That's all I need."
　12:41 | Goku: "0.2 seconds... Ain't nothing I can't handle."

Significance: In the face of an improved time-skip, Goku is confident he can continue to predict Hit's actions.

[LightBing]

Quick question. In the newest episodes, is Hit actually stronger than KK x10 Goku, on par, or just good enough to hang in there?

See these quotes:

Spoiler:

Context: Hit manages to strike Goku, causing Goku to fall.

　08:57 | Vegeta: "So that scream really {\i1}did{\i0} trigger a power-up!"
　09:02 | Whis: "No."
　09:03 | Vados: "That was probably just him trying to look the part."
　09:07 | Vados: "Hit decided to mimic what Goku-san was doing."
　09:15 | Hit: "Unlike you Saiyans, I can't transform to power up,"
　09:22 | Hit: "which left me with only one way to become stronger..."
　09:30 | Piccolo: "G-Growth...

Significance: Reveals that Hit has no transformations, and a reminder that Hit's improvements throughout the battle are unrelated to his showy power-up. Piccolo realizes that Hit is improving himself as the battle goes on.


Context: Hit explains his improvement.

　09:33 | Piccolo: "Hit outright grew and developed in such a short time?"
　09:42 | Hit: "Growth... I had never considered it before. There was no need to."
　09:52 | Hit: "But seeing you, I realized there are even greater heights to reach."
　09:59 | Hit: "And indeed, I was able to extend my time-skip to 0.2 seconds."
　10:05 | Kuririn: "E-Extend his time-skip?!"

Significance: Goku pushes Hit to "grow" (成長/seichou), meaning (in this context) to improve himself and his technique, which he claims to have never needed to do in his 1000 years of existence.

While he uses his technique to keep up with Goku, his power must also have increased to be able to withstand the blows and damage Goku, even with his pressure points hits. Or else one punch from Goku would end him, if he didn't get stronger.

He should be decently weaker than SSJB Kaioken x10 Goku, by an amount that allows his to survive, but that also forces him to use the time-skipping to keep up.

[Hugo Boss]

Whis outright said Hit didn't power up, he just improved tokitobashi. The "powered up attack" Goku mentions is tokitobashi's lenght doubling.

[LightBing]

Whis outright said Hit didn't power up, he just improved tokitobashi. The "powered up attack" Goku mentions is tokitobashi's lenght doubling.

The implication being that he grew instead of powering up ala Saiyans. I can see it referring only to the tokitobashi, it does seem likely. Altought, they use the word grow instead of improving. He could've just said he improved the technique without all this wording and theater.

Besides the logic that in the moments without the technique, tanking a hit from Goku should have ended him or at the very least damaged him seriously. I guess it's possible to ignore that.

But growth can apply to my idea, that it's an overall improvement. So that I can make sense of this. Remember Vegeta suffering insane damage from just a few punches, while only applying a x3 Kaioken, back in the day . So I just can't buy it's improvement only applies to the technique.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Quick question. In the newest episodes, is Hit actually stronger than KK x10 Goku, on par, or just good enough to hang in there?

Hit is shown to be weaker than Super Saiyan Blue Goku (and Vegeta). When he couldn't use Tokitobashi temporarily, Goku was beating him, and Hit is shown dealing heavy damage to SSB Goku (and Vegeta) by hitting them on their pressure points. When Hit powered-up, it was stated that his ki didn't change & it was his Tokitobashi that got powered-up (and it got better & better through their fight), but the force of his strikes increased. However in the latest episode, we learned that Hit was holding back when he was hitting Goku's pressure points because he wanted to avoid killing him due to the tournament rules. Hit is also shown to be very durable, since he survived multiple hits from KKx10 SSB Goku.

So, Hit is weaker than SSB Goku, but his ability to hit pressure points & his evolving Tokitobashi, along with his great durability, allowed him to go fight on par with KKx10 SSB Goku.

[Lord Beerus]

Quick question. In the newest episodes, is Hit actually stronger than KK x10 Goku, on par, or just good enough to hang in there?

Hit is shown to be weaker than Super Saiyan Blue Goku (and Vegeta). When he couldn't use Tokitobashi temporarily, Goku was beating him, and Hit is shown dealing heavy damage to SSB Goku (and Vegeta) by hitting them on their pressure points. When Hit powered-up, it was stated that his ki didn't change & it was his Tokitobashi that got powered-up (and it got better & better through their fight), but the force of his strikes increased. However in the latest episode, we learned that Hit was holding back when he was hitting Goku's pressure points because he wanted to avoid killing him due to the tournament rules. Hit is also shown to be very durable, since he survived multiple hits from KKx10 SSB Goku.

So, Hit is weaker than SSB Goku, but his ability to hit pressure points & his evolving Tokitobashi, along with his great durability, allowed him to go fight on par with KKx10 SSB Goku.

I'm pretty certain there was a portion during the fight between Hit and SSJB where Hit didn't use his Time-Skip/Stop ability, and he was able to more than hold his own against SSJB Goku in a straight out hand-to-hand fight. I think Hit, at the very least, is as strong as SSJB Goku/Vegeta.

[ZombieVito]

Quick question. In the newest episodes, is Hit actually stronger than KK x10 Goku, on par, or just good enough to hang in there?

Hit is shown to be weaker than Super Saiyan Blue Goku (and Vegeta). When he couldn't use Tokitobashi temporarily, Goku was beating him, and Hit is shown dealing heavy damage to SSB Goku (and Vegeta) by hitting them on their pressure points. When Hit powered-up, it was stated that his ki didn't change & it was his Tokitobashi that got powered-up (and it got better & better through their fight), but the force of his strikes increased. However in the latest episode, we learned that Hit was holding back when he was hitting Goku's pressure points because he wanted to avoid killing him due to the tournament rules. Hit is also shown to be very durable, since he survived multiple hits from KKx10 SSB Goku.

So, Hit is weaker than SSB Goku, but his ability to hit pressure points & his evolving Tokitobashi, along with his great durability, allowed him to go fight on par with KKx10 SSB Goku.

I'm pretty certain there was a portion during the fight between Hit and SSJB where Hit didn't use his Time-Skip/Stop ability, and he was able to more than hold his own against SSJB Goku in a straight out hand-to-hand fight. I think Hit, at the very least, is as strong as SSJB Goku/Vegeta.

Goku overwhelmed him after a while.

[RandomGuy96]

If he was weaker than SSB Goku normally, how'd he survive against SSB KK x10? Does the time skip make him tougher too...?

[Lord Beerus]

If he was weaker than SSB Goku normally, how'd he survive against SSB KK x10? Does the time skip make him tougher too...?

Hit just freezes time and then using his natural strength and speed delivers devastating attacks. I don't think when he uses the Time-Skip ablilty he become explicitly stronger or tougher. I personally think he just as strong as SSJB Goku/Vegeta. I mean, he wasn't, there's no way in hell would have survived that SSJB-KK x10 assault from Goku.

[ekrolo2]

If he was weaker than SSB Goku normally, how'd he survive against SSB KK x10? Does the time skip make him tougher too...?

With Dragon Ball logic, unless you've got a rule breaking movie such as Kienzan, you've got to be at the very least on par with someone to hurt them. If Hit didn't rival Goku in power, his time skip would be useless for anything other than dodging.

[DBZAOTA482]

Dragon Ball Power Level List (Ignoring Scouter/Official Numbers) Revised

References
Average human male: 3-5
Average human female: 2-3
Average human child: 1-1.5

Multipliers
Oozaru: 10x Base

The Saga of Son Goku

Goku:

• 20
  200 (Oozaru)

Bulma: 2
Oolong: 1
Yamcha: 17

Muten Roshi:

• 139
  5,000 (Maxed-out)

Chi-Chi: 14
Gyumao (Ox-King): 80
Bear Thief: 10
Tyrannosaurus Rex: 12

21st Budokai

Goku:

• 16 (pre-training; no tail)
  110 (post-training; no tail)
  139

Krillin:

• 12 (pre-training)
  105

Yamcha: 32
Jackie Chun:

• 139 (base)
  5,000 (Maxed-out)

Nam: 125
Bacterian: 30
Giran: 80
Preliminary fighters: 10-50

Red Ribbon Army Saga

Goku:

• 170 (Pre-Korin training)
  400

Krillin: 100
Bora: 60
Colonel Silver: 40
Ninja Murasaki: 25
General White: 20
General Blue: 125
Tao Pai Pai: 350

Uranai Baba Palace

Yamcha: 34
Akkuman: 200
Mummy-kun: 150
Grandpa Gohan: 380

22nd Budokai

Goku:

• 1,250 (Match-level)
  1,550

Krillin: 600
Yamcha: 580
Jackie Chun:

• 1,000 (suppressed)
  1,200

Chiaotzu: 540
Tenshinhan: 1,500
King Chappa: 500
Man-wolf: 50
Pamput: 80
Crane Master: 900


Piccolo Daimao Saga

Goku:

• 1,900 (Pre-Sacred Water)
  16,000

Yajirobe: 1,300

Muten Roshi:

• 1,200
  1,700 (prime)

Cymbal: 500
Tamborine: 1,500

Piccolo Daimao:

• 3,800 (old; <50%)
  8,000 (old)
  10,000 (suppressed)
  14,000

Tenshinhan: 1,600
Drum: 2,300
Mr. Popo: 50,000
Kami: 100,000

23rd Budokai

Goku:

• 8,500 (weighted; suppressed)
  20,000 (weighted)
  50,000 (unweighted)
  150,000

Krillin: 12,500
Yamcha: 12,000

Tenshinhan:

• 20,000 (suppressed speed)
  25,000

Chi-Chi: 8,000
Chiaotzu: 5,000
Yajirobe: 6,000

Kami:

• 50,000 (Shen)
  80,000

Cyborg Tao: 10,000

Piccolo:

• 18,500 (initial)
  65,000 (powered-up)
  150,000

King Chappa: 1,000
Preliminary fighters: 50-100

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If he was weaker than SSB Goku normally, how'd he survive against SSB KK x10? Does the time skip make him tougher too...?

Maybe Goku can't use the full extent of his power even though it's multiplied by 2/3/4/10 since Kaio-ken Super Saiyan Blue is still an incomplete technique, which would also explain why Goku is still below the Hakaishin & their attendants.

Then again, the Super anime is supposed to take place in the anime continuity, where people can fight even with huge gaps in power.

[Hugo Boss]

Well, this is the Ultimate Power Levels Guide by me. I don't speak english very well but I give you the Power Levels right now. Let's begin with the First Arc on the Manga.

I'm not so sure about the numbers, but the format of your list is awesome. I would like to see your numbers from movies and from the side stories.

[ZombieVito]

Perfect Cell comes here.

Piccolo ピッコロ - 228,000,000 (Without weights)

Cell Games.

Piccolo ピッコロ - 234,000,000 (Without weights)

Goku said Piccolo got way stronger for training in the Room of Spirit and Time.

[VegetaSSJBlue]

Well, this is the Ultimate Power Levels Guide by me. I don't speak english very well but I give you the Power Levels right now. Let's begin with the First Arc on the Manga.[/align]/!.

Antivenom? Lpm ahora venis a hacer de troll a este foro tambien, ya te banearon la cuenta en otro y llegas aca, no te leiste ni la obra y escribis cualquier cosa.
Ahora a esperar a que se habran post viejos, temas sin sentido, teorias sobre el canon ilogicas, listas con cero coherencia y demas.
Muchachos, el troleo supremo ya llego, hay hombres que solo quieren ver arder el mundo...

[ZombieVito]

Well, this is the Ultimate Power Levels Guide by me. I don't speak english very well but I give you the Power Levels right now. Let's begin with the First Arc on the Manga.[/align]/!.

Antivenom? Lpm ahora venis a hacer de troll a este foro tambien, ya te banearon la cuenta en otro y llegas aca, no te leiste ni la obra y escribis cualquier cosa.
Ahora a esperar a que se habran post viejos, temas sin sentido, teorias sobre el canon ilogicas, listas con cero coherencia y demas.
Muchachos, el troleo supremo ya llego, hay hombres que solo quieren ver arder el mundo...

Ha estado aqui posteando listas desde algun tiempo y hasta donde se no ha trolleado nada.

P.S. We should speak English.