Which series had a more natural transition? Super or GT

[sangofe]

As for my personal opinion: DBGT has a wonderful story that I enjoy very much in Japanese. DB Super on the other hand, lacks originality and seriousness. I couldn't get used to that series if I tried.

I wonder how much you've watched, though.

[TheMikado]

You don't seem to be familiar with EOZ... That's why people who are familiar either intricacies of the lore and story find GT more consistent. To more casual fans who are not fully familiar with storylines and frachise Super may seem more consistent even though it sometimes ignores lore establish even in Z.

Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT are as consistent as the manga and the 2 anime adaptations have ever been. I have to question what does exactly SUPER ignores from the "established" lore in Z? Unless your defintion of ignoring lore = Your fan made mathematical power level list being invalidated.

Yeah it's not fan made its an official multipler friend. Also Super retcons its OWN lore. Not really going to get into this as its stated in every thread, as a matter of fact even the latest posts in the power thread are talking about Super ignoring dates and events in EOZ.

[TheMikado]

As for my personal opinion: DBGT has a wonderful story that I enjoy very much in Japanese. DB Super on the other hand, lacks originality and seriousness. I couldn't get used to that series if I tried.

I wonder how much you've watched, though.

I've watched both and have the same opinion. Is it possible that multiple or even many other people have watched as much if not more than others and have an opinion different than yours.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Yeah it's not fan made its an official multipler friend. Also Super retcons its OWN lore. Not really going to get into this as its stated in every thread, as a matter of fact even the latest posts in the power thread are talking about Super ignoring dates and events in EOZ.

Point 1: What exactly is DBS retconing from its own lore? If you want to support your arguements you should give proofs backing them up.
Point 2: Being vague about dates =/= flatout ignoring datea. Moreover, what events from EoZ is DBS exactly ignoring? Don't assume people can read your mind, give proofs to support your arguments.

[TheMikado]

Yeah it's not fan made its an official multipler friend. Also Super retcons its OWN lore. Not really going to get into this as its stated in every thread, as a matter of fact even the latest posts in the power thread are talking about Super ignoring dates and events in EOZ.

Point 1: What exactly is DBS retconing from its own lore? If you want to support your arguements you should give proofs backing them up.
Point 2: Being vague about dates =/= flatout ignoring datea. Moreover, what events from EoZ is DBS exactly ignoring? Don't assume people can read your mind, give proofs to support your arguments.

1) Sure. If Rageta forced Beerus to use around 10% of his full power this implies Vegeta's rage boost put him in the vicinity of that level and obviously stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Further we find that Goku as SSJ when fighting Beerus is still God levels what ever it is, as Beerus says Goku didn't really power down after the time expiration of SSG and had made the power his own. Next we find piccolo and Gohan trounced by SSJ3 level characters yet we base Goku able to take on a Frieza who trained and in final form says he could defeat Buu which is around SSJ3 level. I won't even go into how obtaining SSG was retconned pretty much immediately after being acheived by giving it to Vegeta too or universe shaking punches and all that. Anyway given what we know about SSJ Goku fighting Beerus we have to assume every who fought at SSJ Goku level is at least God tier and greater than 10% Beerus. Further we have to assume SSB is stronger than that based on Vegeta's showing to Cabba. Even if SSB is on 20% of Beerus full power then a SSB X Kaioken x10 Goku would be stronger than Champa and Beerus combined so it's unlikely they could have killed hit even if they tried. Although we know SSB is stronger than 20% because Whis made the the Vegeta and Goku together can probably beat Beerus although he also made the castle and the tree analogy and Toriyama in an interview said there were no plans for them to surpass Beerus like a month ago yet we have Kaioken X 10 x SSB which Hit shouldn't be able to sense unless he has God, which apparently he does so he should be easily able to tackle a Beerus or Champa who was only at around 10% against Rageta. That or power levels got retconned somewhere along he line in Super which is its own lore that it established.

2) Bulma and Gokus ages appear to be off with pans possibly being out of whack and still no world yet on Bra.

[sintzu]

I wonder how much you've watched, though.

Super's reputation isn't exactly stable, it's kind of mixed.

I don't think it's as hated as Gt but it's no where near as liked as DB & Z.

[TheMikado]

I wonder how much you've watched, though.

Super's reputation isn't exactly stable, it's kind of mixed.

I don't think it's as hated as Gt but it's no where near as liked as DB & Z.

It also isn't over yet or well known to American audiences. Time will help even out the reactions. Remember the only people watching it right now outside of Japan are avid fans of the DB series anyway and not the general population.

[ther2view]

1) Sure. If Rageta forced Beerus to use around 10% of his full power this implies Vegeta's rage boost put him in the vicinity of that level and obviously stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Further we find that Goku as SSJ when fighting Beerus is still God levels what ever it is, as Beerus says Goku didn't really power down after the time expiration of SSG and had made the power his own. Next we find piccolo and Gohan trounced by SSJ3 level characters yet we base Goku able to take on a Frieza who trained and in final form says he could defeat Buu which is around SSJ3 level. I won't even go into how obtaining SSG was retconned pretty much immediately after being acheived by giving it to Vegeta too or universe shaking punches and all that. Anyway given what we know about SSJ Goku fighting Beerus we have to assume every who fought at SSJ Goku level is at least God tier and greater than 10% Beerus. Further we have to assume SSB is stronger than that based on Vegeta's showing to Cabba. Even if SSB is on 20% of Beerus full power then a SSB X Kaioken x10 Goku would be stronger than Champa and Beerus combined so it's unlikely they could have killed hit even if they tried. Although we know SSB is stronger than 20% because Whis made the the Vegeta and Goku together can probably beat Beerus although he also made the castle and the tree analogy and Toriyama in an interview said there were no plans for them to surpass Beerus like a month ago yet we have Kaioken X 10 x SSB which Hit shouldn't be able to sense unless he has God, which apparently he does so he should be easily able to tackle a Beerus or Champa who was only at around 10% against Rageta. That or power levels got retconned somewhere along he line in Super which is its own lore that it established.

2) Bulma and Gokus ages appear to be off with pans possibly being out of whack and still no world yet on Bra.

I'm not going to even try to touch the first one, because I could care less about power levels and things like that. If you do, more power to you, but keep in mind that Toriyama doesn't care about them either.

As for the second part, it actually is about as consistent as can be. Goku and Bulma are about in their 50's or so, with Goku being a full blooded Saiyan who keeps his youth for many years and Bulma being a vain heiress who would totally buy the best anti aging products she could. Pan was 4 at the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai, which DOES fit Super's timeline. And Bra, despite odd designs in GT, is a year younger than Pan, which means there'd still be about 6 months or so until we see her as a baby.

If you wanted to talk about inconsistent ages, you should talk about Goten, Trunks, and Maron. ...ESPECIALLY Maron. Currently in Super she's at LEAST 6 years old, and probably even older.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

1) Sure. If Rageta forced Beerus to use around 10% of his full power this implies Vegeta's rage boost put him in the vicinity of that level and obviously stronger than SSJ3 Goku. Further we find that Goku as SSJ when fighting Beerus is still God levels what ever it is, as Beerus says Goku didn't really power down after the time expiration of SSG and had made the power his own. Next we find piccolo and Gohan trounced by SSJ3 level characters yet we base Goku able to take on a Frieza who trained and in final form says he could defeat Buu which is around SSJ3 level. I won't even go into how obtaining SSG was retconned pretty much immediately after being acheived by giving it to Vegeta too or universe shaking punches and all that. Anyway given what we know about SSJ Goku fighting Beerus we have to assume every who fought at SSJ Goku level is at least God tier and greater than 10% Beerus. Further we have to assume SSB is stronger than that based on Vegeta's showing to Cabba. Even if SSB is on 20% of Beerus full power then a SSB X Kaioken x10 Goku would be stronger than Champa and Beerus combined so it's unlikely they could have killed hit even if they tried. Although we know SSB is stronger than 20% because Whis made the the Vegeta and Goku together can probably beat Beerus although he also made the castle and the tree analogy and Toriyama in an interview said there were no plans for them to surpass Beerus like a month ago yet we have Kaioken X 10 x SSB which Hit shouldn't be able to sense unless he has God, which apparently he does so he should be easily able to tackle a Beerus or Champa who was only at around 10% against Rageta. That or power levels got retconned somewhere along he line in Super which is its own lore that it established.

Soo, you´re saying DBS is retconing lore just for not following your power levels maths? Then DBZ must be hella full of retcons with the broken stablished lores of "strongest being in the universe" and power level inconsistencies & nonsense.

Also why "retconing" something bad?

[TheMikado]

I forgot about Maron and I don't even notice chibi Trunks and Goten anymore.
The point is the inconsistencies are more apparent and make the transistion to Super more jarring. It's not it individual inconsistencies it's all the collective inconsistencies that makes it feel like the previous writers never watched or were really fans of Dragonball Z. Even the design of the arcs feel a lot different. The standard formula of fight grunts, big enemy reveals aren't nearly as apparent as Z. RoF for better or for worse in terms of arc structure was the closest we've had to the Z formula of story telling.

[Grimlock]

...ESPECIALLY Maron. Currently in Super she's at LEAST 6 years old, and probably even older.

It's said she was born in AGE 771, if you don't count Dragon Ball Super re-tellings and episode 28 is the straight continuation of Movie 15, then we are in AGE 779, therefore she is eight years old by now.

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't see how any of the age issues in Super are nearly as bad as Bra being hit on by bikers in GT when she is 8.

[TheMikado]

I don't see how any of the age issues in Super are nearly as bad as Bra being hit on by bikers in GT when she is 8.

I think you can chalk that up to loli culture. You're looking at I through American eyes.

[TheMikado]

Soo, you´re saying DBS is retconing lore just for not following your power levels maths? Then DBZ must be hella full of retcons with the broken stablished lores of "strongest being in the universe" and power level inconsistencies & nonsense.

Also why "retconing" something bad?

The easiest way to process this is to have Vegeta saying that he's 10% as power as Frieza's final form during the Saiyan arc and then making all the forms and power ups still fit in between there without severely overpowering Vegeta or depowering Frieza. It would sound like silly and poor writing and in that scenario as much as it does now.

[Bansho64]

I don't see how any of the age issues in Super are nearly as bad as Bra being hit on by bikers in GT when she is 8.

Seriously, I was wondering why Vegeta didn't just kill those guys right then and there! He's bad enough to get pissed cause he ain't stronger than Goku but he ain't bad enough to kill a couple of pedophiles hitting on his kid!? Father of the year right there.

[Cetra]

I think the Bra thing in GT was just because Aya Matsui was not aware that Bra was supposed to be so young.

[emi_b7]

Even the design of the arcs feel a lot different. The standard formula of fight grunts, big enemy reveals aren't nearly as apparent as Z. RoF for better or for worse in terms of arc structure was the closest we've had to the Z formula of story telling.

This Champa arc was a tournament arc, there have been 4 of those already in DB so it is not uncommon. Why does it have to follow the "Z formula"? That may be the story telling you prefer but it's not the only type of story Dragon Ball has had. I'm pretty sure this arc was just setting the stage (U6 characters, Zeno and whatever he will say) for what's coming next, I would guess the next arc will be longer and more Z-like.

I think the Bra thing in GT was just because Aya Matsui was not aware that Bra was supposed to be so young.

Yeah, she looks like 16 or something in GT. To be fair with the DBGT guys, Bra looked older than Pan in EoZ too, for some reason. I didn't really know she was supposed to be younger than Pan until people started talking about her in this forum lol.

[Cetra]

I always thought Bra was older than Pan until I saw official data.

[ther2view]

Yeah, she looks like 16 or something in GT. To be fair with the DBGT guys, Bra looked older than Pan in EoZ too, for some reason. I didn't really know she was supposed to be younger than Pan until people started talking about her in this forum lol.

Which I think is the sole reason Funimation changed the time gap from 5 years to 10 years, along with Vegeta's hilariously wrong line of "Teenagers." Yeah, Vegeta... they weren't teenagers. Of course, even the 10 year gap is icky considering that would only make her 13... so the theory that the "Lost episodes" were actually lost by Funimation may actually be more true...

[TheMikado]

Yeah, she looks like 16 or something in GT. To be fair with the DBGT guys, Bra looked older than Pan in EoZ too, for some reason. I didn't really know she was supposed to be younger than Pan until people started talking about her in this forum lol.

Which I think is the sole reason Funimation changed the time gap from 5 years to 10 years, along with Vegeta's hilariously wrong line of "Teenagers." Yeah, Vegeta... they weren't teenagers. Of course, even the 10 year gap is icky considering that would only make her 13... so the theory that the "Lost episodes" were actually lost by Funimation may actually be more true...

Actually the 10 year gap makes way more sense considering we first see Pan out on a date.