How strong do you think Goku's base is (in Super)

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Yeah, he sensed him. I think that's because Dende is regarded as a God, though.

[Doctor.]

-Base Vegeta had grown powerful enough to sense God Chi training with Whis, and Goku said Vegeta was as strong or stronger than himself.

It's heavily implied it's just a skill you can learn. The Oracle Fish, Kaios and Kaioshin can sense God Ki as well.

-Base Vegeta easily dispatched of Ginyu, whom Gohan believed was equal to his Ultimate level.

If Ginyu was equal to ultimate Gohan, then Super Saiyan Gohan wouldn't have defeated him so easily.

-Gohan is quite sure his Ultimate state would be no match for First Form Freeza. Base Goku was equal to Final Form Freeza.

No, he just says that as he is right now, he stands no chance.

-Beers said both Base Goku and Vegeta were much stronger than before and challenged them.

This doesn't really prove anything, it's just a statement. Both Goku and Vegeta then say they'd still stand no chance.

Super Saiyan 3 Goku does nothing but gets demolished by Beers.

Base Goku would get demolished by Beerus as well.

Not saying Base Goku isn't stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, I'm just saying there's no PROOF of it. The only proof we have is that base Goku = final form Freeza >> first form Freeza >> Super Saiyan Gohan. That's all we know.

[Hugo Boss]

What's your thoughts?

Currently, I think he is stronger than 3rd form Frost and possibly as strong as Monaka-Beerus.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

It's heavily implied it's just a skill you can learn. The Oracle Fish, Kaios and Kaioshin can sense God Ki as well.

Whis said they (Vegeta and Goku) reached a level where they can now sense God Chi. I'm pretty sure Kaio and Kaioshin are Gods. It was stated that only deities can sense the Chi of Gods and Whis said Goku was as much of a God as the Kaioshin's after he became Super Saiyan God.

If Ginyu was equal to ultimate Gohan, then Super Saiyan Gohan wouldn't have defeated him so easily.

Gohan said Tagoma was hiding power that was equal to his best. Ginyu brought that power out when he took over Tagoma's body. Gohan wanted to avoid Super Saiyan altogether because he wasn't sure he could handle it, and we see that his Base form couldn't touch Tagoma. He only realized he couldn't become Ultimate after fighting Ginyu for awhile. Super Saiyan defeated Ginyu because it took his power to its limits, hence why he's unsure his body can hold the form for long. Base Gohan is stronger than Piccolo, so we know his power works differently than the other Saiyans.

No, he just says that as he is right now, he stands no chance.

And since he didn't realize he lost the ability to become Ultimate until after he fought Ginyu for awhile, that would naturally be taken into consideration along with everything else.

This doesn't really prove anything, it's just a statement. Both Goku and Vegeta then say they'd still stand no chance.

It means their new power stood out enough for it to be noted by Beers. The whole point of them getting stronger was so they could challenge him again. Ther inability to beat Beers doesn't mean they haven't eclipsed their previous levels (Super Saiyan 3 and 2) by a considerable margin. There's no point to the statement if they're still that much weaker than their levels from the beginning of BoG. It shows no progression at all. Also, Goku said Vegeta powered-up enough to equal or surpass him for a reason. This is well before they both train under Whis and eventually get sealed in that room to get even stronger.

Whis said their only way to see the power that lies ahead is for them to get a lot stronger in Base. Is there a reason to assume they didn't raise their Base powers significantly training with Whis even though everything says otherwise?

Base Goku would get demolished by Beerus as well.

Base Goku completely destroyed Beers' Meteor attack with all his might. Super Saiyan 3 Goku hasn't done anything close to that, nor can we assume that he could. Beers is superior to any version of Super Saiyan God as well, so the most you can do is go by what's shown.

Not saying Base Goku isn't stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku, I'm just saying there's no PROOF of it. The only proof we have is that base Goku = final form Freeza >> first form Freeza >> Super Saiyan Gohan. That's all we know.

Base Goku obliterating Beers' God Meteor is enough proof, actually. Super Saiyan 3 Goku has no feats and is pretty much a discarded form in Super.

[Captain Strawberry]

Base Goku did pretty well with trained Frieza.

Base Goku can't be stronger then perhaps second form Cell or first form Cell.

How can he not? First or second form cell ain't shit to base goku.

because multipliers would get weird.

Even probably, even if they were physically the same strength level, skillwise, I still think he would beat Cell pretty easily especially with the thinking faster than your brain technique.

[ZombieVito]

ZombieVito, how does it not matter? That's still ignoring what we see. We see Base Goku destroy Beers' attack. The EoZ events don't suddenly mean the Super events never happened.

At that time Goku still had the full power of SSG in him.

[Saiyan007]

ZombieVito, how does it not matter? That's still ignoring what we see. We see Base Goku destroy Beers' attack. The EoZ events don't suddenly mean the Super events never happened.

At that time Goku still had the full power of SSG in him.

Goku and vegeta still took attacks from a beerus that according to Goku wasn't holding back and in the episode 2 weeks ago Base Goku was fighting a powered up version of Beerus.

Remember Beerus flicked and casually chopped a ssj3 Goku.

[ZombieVito]

ZombieVito, how does it not matter? That's still ignoring what we see. We see Base Goku destroy Beers' attack. The EoZ events don't suddenly mean the Super events never happened.

At that time Goku still had the full power of SSG in him.

Goku and vegeta still took attacks from a beerus that according to Goku wasn't holding back and in the episode 2 weeks ago Base Goku was fighting a powered up version of Beerus.

Remember Beerus flicked and casually chopped a ssj3 Goku.

That proves nothing. There are a lot of examples in the old series where a character survives an attack multiple times stronger than them.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

ZombieVito, how does it not matter? That's still ignoring what we see. We see Base Goku destroy Beers' attack. The EoZ events don't suddenly mean the Super events never happened.

At that time Goku still had the full power of SSG in him.

Goku wasn't Super Saiyan God, though. He was just in Base form. That's still weaker than Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan w/God Power. Besides, we're never told Goku lost a crapton of power after the battle with Beers, either.

That also doesn't change the fact that Base Vegeta's new power rivaled or surpassed Goku's after training with Whis. There's no reason for these guys to be as weak as Mr. Boo tier because that tier is nothing to them by Super. Outside of being Beers' punching bag, Mr. Boo has a total of 0 feats. He's probably the most overrated character in Super.

[Saiyan007]

That proves nothing. There are a lot of examples in the old series where a character survives an attack multiple times stronger than them.

No it proves Goku and Vegeta are far beyond ssj3 in thier base forms.

It's happened on two different occasions that's evidence you can't dismiss

[Captain Strawberry]

ZombieVito, how does it not matter? That's still ignoring what we see. We see Base Goku destroy Beers' attack. The EoZ events don't suddenly mean the Super events never happened.

At that time Goku still had the full power of SSG in him.

Goku and vegeta still took attacks from a beerus that according to Goku wasn't holding back and in the episode 2 weeks ago Base Goku was fighting a powered up version of Beerus.

Remember Beerus flicked and casually chopped a ssj3 Goku.

That was a gag episode

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

That doesn't really take away from Goku's power. It was still Beers' power.

Also, from what Whis said, they'd be better off raising their power in Base because it'll allow them to grow a lot stronger. Since they've discarded Super Saiyan 2 and 3 in favor of this method, it only makes sense that their Base levels would increase dramatically. It might seem like a lot for some, but it makes far more sense because it shows progression. Fighting at levels that are laughable during the Boo saga would be the opposite of this. Usually when someone does a huge power-up and woes everyone that senses it, this means they've reached a level that is beyond what they already sensed/saw. Freeza did just that in his Final Form, so being Mr. Boo tier is out of the question entirely.

[Khin]

One thing i'd like to add. In RoF, Beerus said Goku became way stronger than before . Unless you think SSG Goku < Base Goku by RoF then that line can mean two things.

1. Base Goku become way stronger than his SS3 form.
2. Base Goku become way stronger than his Base self when he punched the sun-like ball.

Do we know that being able to sense the Gods is tied to battle power, rather than something Whis trained them to better be able to do?

Cabba can sense God ki, and he was never implied anywhere that he did some special training.

[TheMikado]

One thing i'd like to add. In RoF, Beerus said Goku became way stronger than before . Unless you think SSG Goku < Base Goku by RoF then that line can mean two things.

1. Base Goku become way stronger than his SS3 form.
2. Base Goku become way stronger than his Base self when he punched the sun-like ball.

Do we know that being able to sense the Gods is tied to battle power, rather than something Whis trained them to better be able to do?

Cabba can sense God ki, and he was never implied anywhere that he did some special training.

Hit did too and apparently Dende as well so its definitely not exclusively tied to power levels.

[Khin]

Hit did too and apparently Dende as well so its definitely not exclusively tied to power levels.

Hit was able to sense Goku's ki because he's strong enough to do so, just like Freeza. That's the point. Dende is a god, so i don't think he counts. Just like Kaioshin, Elder Kaioshin, and Kaio.

[Speedster]

Goku's base is as weak as it needs to be to (i) get temporarily stopped by Chaozu's psychic ability or (ii) fight evenly with 3rd form Frost but is simulateusly as strong as it needs to be to (a) punch and destroy that giant sphere of the merged Beerus' blast and SSJ Goku's Kamehameha, (b)be able to somewhat spar with Whis, (c)take unrestrained blasts from Beerus and surviving, (d)be superior to 100% form RoF Freeza that even in his first form was much stronger than Piccolo and SSJ Gohan,(e) do better against Hit than SSB Vegeta and (f)hold his own while sparring against Beerus disguised as Monaka.

So basically as strong or as weak as the plot demands.

[TheMikado]

Goku's base is as weak as it needs to be to (i) get temporarily stopped by Chaozu's psychic ability or (ii) fight evenly with 3rd form Frost but is simulateusly as strong as it needs to be to (a) punch and destroy that giant sphere of the merged Beerus' blast and SSJ Goku's Kamehameha, (b)be able to somewhat spar with Whis, (c)take unrestrained blasts from Beerus and surviving, (d)be superior to 100% form RoF Freeza that even in his first form was much stronger than Piccolo and SSJ Gohan,(e) do better against Hit than SSB Vegeta and (f)hold his own while sparring against Beerus disguised as Monaka.

So basically as strong or as weak as the plot demands.

Excellent post, I'm going to use that elsewhere.

[ssbgoku]

Goku's base is as weak as it needs to be to (i) get temporarily stopped by Chaozu's psychic ability or (ii) fight evenly with 3rd form Frost but is simulateusly as strong as it needs to be to (a) punch and destroy that giant sphere of the merged Beerus' blast and SSJ Goku's Kamehameha, (b)be able to somewhat spar with Whis, (c)take unrestrained blasts from Beerus and surviving, (d)be superior to 100% form RoF Freeza that even in his first form was much stronger than Piccolo and SSJ Gohan,(e) do better against Hit than SSB Vegeta and (f)hold his own while sparring against Beerus disguised as Monaka.

So basically as strong or as weak as the plot demands.

This :d, and if we really try to estimate Goku's base then I would say above ssj3 goku and below utlimate gohan from buu arc.

[supercat]

Mr. Boo is trash compared to Base Goku. This guy has done nothing at all during Super and yet people continue to overrate him.

Base Goku is way beyond Super Saiyan 3 tier considering he can do stuff his Super Saiyan 3 self couldn't do.

Exactly. What that useless blob has done to merit all this unnecessary attention is beyond me. I'm starting to get the feeling that he's on the verge of claiming Broly's title as the most overrated character.

In any case, I'd place Base Goku anywhere between 30-50% of his SSG incarnation, as this would mean fighters like Frost and Piccolo are miles ahead of Buu but several notches below anything SSG dished out in BoG.

[Xeztin]

I like to think Goku's base is on par with SSJG but that would make Frost wayyyyy out there and he had to go SSJ against him so that debunks that since Frost should be around Freeza's true form. Vegeta getting whipped in SSJB by Hit while Goku did fairly well in base also doesn't make any sense. I believe the I transformed again so I'm stronger thing is out the window in Super. It seem's to be more about strategy over raw power now, or at least that's what Vegeta's and Goku's fight with Hit hinted at. Another thing that's confusing as hell is Goku did okay in base after absorbing the God ki against Beerus. That God Ki is a mess but I want to say Freeza's and Frost's True forms are their actual base, so there is no multiplier unlike Super Saiyan. I would actually put Base Goku as of now at SSJ3 tier and while that goes against the Hit fight, I think strategy had to do a lot with that since Vegeta was SSJB. I would put ROF arc Freeza at SSJ3 tier as well because it's his base and his base can get stronger just like Goku's. I'd put Goku's SSJ form at 400x base on par with SSJ3's multiplier since he learned how to bring out its full power in SSJ1 without the strain. So basically:

Base Goku: SSJ3 tier (I think this is as strong as Goku's base can get because he held his own against EOZ Uub)
(In Super) SSJ: 400 x base on par with SSJ3 multiplier.
Super Sayain Blue: Beyond SSG.

Freeza true form (In Super): SSJ3 tier.
Freeza Golden Form: Beyond SSJB

Frost true form: SSJ3 tier (Because when Goku went SSJ which would be 400x his base which is equal to SSJ3 he walloped him)