Dub Freeza and the effect of Linda Young

[TheGreatness25]

Perhaps not americans.

Well who did FUNimation dub the series for?

(Let's pretend they just continued straight on with Z and never went back to the first series, where the names of an entire army are literally just colors.)

Really?

Piccolo. Freeza and King Cold. Trunks. Cell. Bibidi Babidi Buu. These are the ones that smack you in the face. Even some of the obscured dub-ism ones still shine through, like Puar alongside Oolong. I find it rather unlikely that you make it far into the series, even the FUNimation dub with its name changes, and don't start to catch on.

Piccolo was the only pun in the series at the time Freeza's name was spelled the way it was. I guarantee you they didn't know there was a King Cold, Bibidi, Babidi, or Boo. They didn't even know there was a Burdock, as they made him a "brilliant" scientist. So what puns did they have that were obvious besides Piccolo (I'll admit to that one)?

In any event, it's not my job to defend FUNimation, I just feel like I keep seeing the same complaints over and over and over again. A whole new dub was released replacing Freeza's voice actor and we're still playing 1999 and complaining about Linda Young and the big horrifying devastating effect that she had on the series. Like seriously?

I know that my opinions tend to clash with a lot of others' and that's fine, but it's like beating a dead horse. Nonstop bashing of a product that was released over a decade ago. It is what it is, it's been discussed to the ground, and now it's just on repeat.

[VegettoEX]

Piccolo was the only pun in the series at the time Freeza's name was spelled the way it was. I guarantee you they didn't know there was a King Cold, Bibidi, Babidi, or Boo. They didn't even know there was a Burdock, as they made him a "brilliant" scientist. So what puns did they have that were obvious besides Piccolo (I'll admit to that one)?

I was speaking about fans. The prior comment was how fans would never know the puns unless they went online to look them up. My retort to that was, no, if they simply watched the show, the obvious ones would be impossible to overlook.

A whole new dub was released replacing Freeza's voice actor and we're still playing 1999 and complaining about Linda Young and the big horrifying devastating effect that she had on the series. Like seriously?

It clearly had lasting effects if both the dub-lovers and dub-dislikers have things to say about it in 2016. It's a fun exercise in conversation. If you're not interested in it, no-one's forcing you to contribute.

It is what it is, it's been discussed to the ground, and now it's just on repeat.

This is what everyone was saying about everything when I got into the game in 1998, it's clearly not the case, and I'd love for new and old folks alike to still be able to voice their opinions moving forward.

[LuckyCat]

I've only seen one direct reference to Pauline Newstone by name and one other passing reference to "first two English voices" so far in this thread. You 100% cannot have a conversation about Linda Young's performance without starting with Pauline Newstone, the actress who played Freeza in FUNimation's original season two dub of DBZ. That performance set the tone. It was literally the precedent for what came after. Nevermind the raw tone of voice, but everything that got amped up to 11 in terms of jokes in "season three" started here in the second season with Newstone's voice and the script provided to her.

This is spot on. If season 3 FUNimation had really been starting from scratch and using Japanese Dragonball as a reference, FUNi's voice director (Sabat?) would've cut Linda Young off and said, "No, Ryūsei Nakao's Freeza doesn't sound anything like this. Try again, work on that tone!"

But that wasn't FUNimations angle. They were marketing at least in part to existing US fans who were comfortable with Newstone's silly performance. Granted, Young wasn't/isn't as good of an actress as Newstone, but I don't think any actress could've made "Made you look, dirty crook, stole your mother's pocket book!" sound good. So, Young's acting aside, FUNimation's questionable directions with the series is what had a real lasting effect on the US Dub.

[ABED]

Well who did FUNimation dub the series for?

First, I hadn't thought of the obvious ones until VegettoEX reminded me, and second, the puns were very obvious in Japanese. My thought was that they aren't obvious to Americans, not because some clever cover, but because most of us don't know Japanese, so puns that would be obvious to them aren't obvious to us, much like the name Tim Foil might not play in non-English speaking countries.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Some name puns wouldn't, but some are blatantly obvious no matter what FUNi did to the name, including 'Frieza'. Maybe if it had actually been pronounced 'Fryza', there'd be something of the pun lost, but it's not - it's still pronounced 'Freeza', which pretty much everyone's first encounter with the name is probably going to start with 'Huh, that sounds kinda like Freezer', the same way with most would go 'Vegeta huh? Looks like Vegetable.' And that's not even mentioning ones where the dub names are literally just the word that the pun comes from like 'Trunks', 'Cooler', or the aforementioned Red Ribbon Army.

The less obvious ones though, would be things like Ginyu, Tenshinhan, Chiaotzu, etc. Heck, I'd even wager not too many would get 'Puar' or 'Oolong' at first glance. ...Well, maybe Oolong.

[Kamiccolo9]

I mean, I picked up on "Raditz" and "Kakarot" as soon as I heard "Vegeta."

[ABED]

Some name puns wouldn't, but some are blatantly obvious no matter what FUNi did to the name, including 'Frieza'. Maybe if it had actually been pronounced 'Fryza', there'd be something of the pun lost, but it's not - it's still pronounced 'Freeza', which pretty much everyone's first encounter with the name is probably going to start with 'Huh, that sounds kinda like Freezer', the same way with most would go 'Vegeta huh? Looks like Vegetable.' And that's not even mentioning ones where the dub names are literally just the word that the pun comes from like 'Trunks', 'Cooler', or the aforementioned Red Ribbon Army.

The less obvious ones though, would be things like Ginyu, Tenshinhan, Chiaotzu, etc. Heck, I'd even wager not too many would get 'Puar' or 'Oolong' at first glance. ...Well, maybe Oolong.

Oolong wouldn't stick out to me until I saw Dragon Ball. I don't remember the names of teas, but since I'm a Dragon Ball fan, the name struck me like "Oh, that's probably where that comes from."

I like when the puns are made less obvious by using things like anagrams, such as Saiyan being taken from Yasai. And I know at least one person on here uses Blooma, but I prefer Bulma, not merely because it's what I've used for 20 years, but it still conveys the pun, but it's not so on the nose.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Oolong wouldn't stick out to me until I saw Dragon Ball. I don't remember the names of teas, but since I'm a Dragon Ball fan, the name struck me like "Oh, that's probably where that comes from."

I'm in a similar boat to that with Pilaf. I don't really know the names of various rices, but now I can't see that kind at a store without chuckling in my head and thinking of the great Emperor himself.

[Theophrastus]

Sometimes I wonder if the "ie" in "Frieza" wasn't even FUNimation's descision. They reportedly received free English translations of the scripts provided by Toei, but apparently the quality of the translations were nothing short of horrible (a sample line is in my sig). Perhaps the inclusion of the "ie" was, in fact, an element of Toei's horrible translation efforts. Probably not, don't get me wrong, I'm just entertaining the possibility.

The Frieza spelling seems to have originated from the Saban dub though.

I know the Toei scripts are bad, but i'm curious about the script from the early ocean dubs (from Saban and Pioneer). Dub errors and corny added lines aside, I thought the script for the former wasn't too bad, and of course the script for the ladder was super faithful.

So did the Saban dub use the Toei English scripts? Where did the Pioneer dub get its scripts from?

I wouldn't be surprised if Funimation intentionally tweaked the spelling for trademarking purposes. Just to make it extra distinctive.

When they were releasing the Yu Yu Hakusho BDs a few years back (which included some minor line re-dos for the dub track) Justin Cook admitted that they renamed the character "Suzuki" to "Suzuka" in the dub because at the time they were hoping YYH would be big for merchandising like DBZ had been and didn't want to risk stepping on the car company's toes in case there was any demand for action figures or the like for that character.

Fast forward to like a decade later and nothing much had happened merchandise-wise, so they decided to give the character his real name back for the BD release and re-recorded every "Suzuka" line to have them saying "Suzuki" instead (or at least that's what they supposedly did, I never actually bought the YYH BDs).

[TheBlackPaladin]

So did the Saban dub use the Toei English scripts? Where did the Pioneer dub get its scripts from?

The answers are "yes," and "we don't know," respectively. Although, I should note that they were "translations," not really scripts...FUNimation's deviations from the original dialogue seem to be equal parts re-phrasing to fit the lip movements (which happens in literally every single dub ever made and is not considered unusual), horrible translations that don't leave them completely clear on what the original dialogue was supposed to be, and them taking their own creative liberties to "re-version" the show (and we know this is at least partially the case because producer Barry Watson said they had a writer on staff whose sole job was to come in and "punch up the comedy").

I don't know what Pioneer was working with, though. I definitely sounds reasonable to assume that they were working with a better translation, though.

[Puto]

Sometimes I wonder if the "ie" in "Frieza" wasn't even FUNimation's descision. They reportedly received free English translations of the scripts provided by Toei, but apparently the quality of the translations were nothing short of horrible (a sample line is in my sig). Perhaps the inclusion of the "ie" was, in fact, an element of Toei's horrible translation efforts. Probably not, don't get me wrong, I'm just entertaining the possibility.

No, it can't be that, because otherwise that spelling would appear on other dubs throughout the world, too. Instead, the spelling most used in most worldwide dubs is "Freezer".

(But "Krillin" probably DID originate from a Toei translation, as some variation of that is used in an extremely large amount of dubs worldwide.)

[Lord Exor]

It was the cheap quality of the music and performance you found enthralling, not the fights or the characters? What about the dub's version of Freeza did you find superior to the original character?

Frieza in FUNimation's original dub has meatier sadism baked into his dialogue, and a voice that I feel better conforms to the aesthetic design of the character. FUNimation went out of their way to make Frieza as odious as possible, and that is an approach I appreciate. To exemplify this, I'll refer to the point where Frieza begins talking after having survived the Spirit Bomb and felling Piccolo. In the Kai and Japanese version, he appears agitated that he brushed with death; in the FUNimation version, he takes another opportunity to patronize the protagonists with a faux compliment, "I must admit that Spirit Bomb of yours sure packs a wallop. It almost knocked the breath out of me, ehehehehehehe." In fact, Linda's Frieza can be characterized as an unbroken string of belittling sarcasm.

And I do find the Faulconer Productions music far more endearing--Kikuchi's score commits the cardinal sin of vibraslap abuse.

[ABED]

It was the cheap quality of the music and performance you found enthralling, not the fights or the characters? What about the dub's version of Freeza did you find superior to the original character?

Frieza in FUNimation's original dub has meatier sadism baked into his dialogue, and a voice that I feel better conforms to the aesthetic design of the character. FUNimation went out of their way to make Frieza as odious as possible, and that is an approach I appreciate. To exemplify this, I'll refer to the point where Frieza begins talking after having survived the Spirit Bomb and felling Piccolo. In the Kai and Japanese version, he appears agitated that he brushed with death; in the FUNimation version, he takes another opportunity to patronize the protagonists with a faux compliment, "I must admit that Spirit Bomb of yours sure packs a wallop. It almost knocked the breath out of me, ehehehehehehe." In fact, Linda's Frieza can be characterized as an unbroken string of belittling sarcasm.

And I do find the Faulconer Productions music far more endearing--Kikuchi's score commits the cardinal sin of vibraslap abuse.

It's not belittling sarcasm, it's obnoxious goofy insults so as to not offend or upset anyone. Freeza's personality is stripped by hack writers and becomes any generic 80s cartoon villain. And a villain doesn't have to spout "sadistic" lines as they are doing sadistic things to be sadistic. FUNi didn't make Freeza odious. Freeza's politeness is unsettling and an interesting part of his villainy. He doesn't feel the need to be anything other than fake polite because no one is a threat, but when he experiences pain, that mask of civility begins to shed and when he almost dies, he loses it. He loses any pretense and shows how sadistic he truly is. FUNi's dub gives him a single gear. By giving him a gentlemanly demeanor, it gives it somewhere else to go.

Faulconer's score commits an even worse sin - it never lets up. There's no silence AT ALL.

[Lord Exor]

Not offend or upset anyone? What? I don't think political correctness or euphemisms were on their radar much post-Saban, what with Frieza making direct references to dismemberment and utilizing lines like "whatever turns you on."

And I prefer the "single gear," it's all a matter of preference in what you look for in an antagonist. I don't personally see how an affectation of civility bestows the character with any additional menace, but to each their own.

[ABED]

Not offend or upset anyone? What? I don't think political correctness or euphemisms were on their radar much post-Saban, what with Frieza making direct references to dismemberment and utilizing lines like "whatever turns you on."

And I prefer the "single gear," it's all a matter of preference in what you look for in an antagonist. I don't personally see how an affectation of civility bestows the character with any additional menace, but to each their own.

Dismemberment? Like "I'll beat your tail!" Granted there's an uncut and edited version so I don't recall what exactly made it to air, but for threats, they were really sanitized and the one's that were supposedly threatening are sorely lacking. You make it sound like FUNi's version was too mature for kids. Someone mentioned Rita Repulsa, and that is a good parallel.

What are you looking for in an antagonist? I like personality, but dub Freeza is so cobbled together and cheesy it's like a Superfriends villain. Freeza's civility is creepy because he'll kill you all the while acting as though it's as casual as grabbing a bite to eat. It's unsettling.

And your basis for preferring a god awful actress like Young over good actors is she sounds closer to Freeza's look? 1 - How do you figure? 2 - Nakao and Ayres' takes still fit, and 3 - Most importantly, they fit Freeza's personality. Young's take doesn't count as Freeza because that's not the character.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

I like when the puns are made less obvious by using things like anagrams, such as Saiyan being taken from Yasai. And I know at least one person on here uses Blooma, but I prefer Bulma, not merely because it's what I've used for 20 years, but it still conveys the pun, but it's not so on the nose.

Maybe I'm just not very perceptive, but I would never get bloomers from bulma without any hints, not even with her son being Trunks. And Bulma seems like a random romanization anyway, it doesn't match the Japanese nor English pronunciation of "bloomers". It's literally no different than Bills.

[ABED]

I like when the puns are made less obvious by using things like anagrams, such as Saiyan being taken from Yasai. And I know at least one person on here uses Blooma, but I prefer Bulma, not merely because it's what I've used for 20 years, but it still conveys the pun, but it's not so on the nose.

Maybe I'm just not very perceptive, but I would never get bloomers from bulma without any hints, not even with her son being Trunks. And Bulma seems like a random romanization anyway, it doesn't match the Japanese nor English pronunciation of "bloomers". It's literally no different than Bills.

And it still is preferable. Whether you get it without hints isn't important. Once someone showed it to you, you do get it don't you? And why is it so important that you immediately get the pun? As for you Bills comment, it's actually different because "bills" is an actual word.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

I like when the puns are made less obvious by using things like anagrams, such as Saiyan being taken from Yasai. And I know at least one person on here uses Blooma, but I prefer Bulma, not merely because it's what I've used for 20 years, but it still conveys the pun, but it's not so on the nose.

Maybe I'm just not very perceptive, but I would never get bloomers from bulma without any hints, not even with her son being Trunks. And Bulma seems like a random romanization anyway, it doesn't match the Japanese nor English pronunciation of "bloomers". It's literally no different than Bills.

And it still is preferable. Whether you get it without hints isn't important. Once someone showed it to you, you do get it don't you? And why is it so important that you immediately get the pun? As for you Bills comment, it's actually different because "bills" is an actual word.

Fine. In that case, its literally no different than Tulanks, Bulolii or Bejiita

[ABED]

Are you thinking that I'm trying to make an objective argument? That's not the case, it's a matter of personal preference. Translating names from one language to another isn't a science. As a general rule, I prefer names that aren't on the nose, but that's not always the case. I don't have some single uniting principle by which I judge a name, it's mainly what sounds best.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Are you thinking that I'm trying to make an objective argument? That's not the case, it's a matter of personal preference. Translating names from one language to another isn't a science. As a general rule, I prefer names that aren't on the nose, but that's not always the case. I don't have some single uniting principle by which I judge a name, it's mainly what sounds best.

This whole thread is trying to convince people that Funi Freeza is unfaithful to the original and arguing against the idea that the Freeza character is just a matter of personal Preference/ Funi version is just as good, and now you're saying "This is less accurate, but I'm used to it so it's up to preference and maybe this is better than the original anyway" Which is exactly what the Young supporters are saying. And "sounds best" is what "Say-un" defenders use.