What aspects do you think tarnished the Dragonball brand?

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

You know, even Toriyama is pissed off by Super. I can't even find anything good in it.

That's one of the really unfortunate aspects of the whole thing -- Toriyama's providing plots I'd have been happy to follow as part of the manga, or in general just handled by him, but something is terribly lost when it passes through Toei's animation and scripting in such a rushed manner.

As much as I hate Toei's Super; I like the manga and find that Toyotaro just envisions the scenarios and symbolism a lot better than Toei's scriptwriters, too bad the manga is just going to be side-lined as a novelty though.

[Footlong Shoe]

Not saying it's wrong, but that seems slightly at odds with what he was supposed to have said in the introduction to the work in question:
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/spin-of ... oss-epoch/

Even though it’s called a “collaboration”, Oda-kun did almost everything, including the story. I just drew my own characters. This kind of work sure is nice~. I was able to really enjoy drawing it.

He may have enjoyed it, but that doesn't necessarily mean he wants to do it again. I think he meant that it was fun, but he doesn't want to go back to drawing it as a weekly series.

[Ballistictiger]

Everything that came up after the end of Z to me feels like it was a cash grab, so that'll be my answer. I loath GT and I really dislike Super. At least to Super's defense, I don't hate everything about it, just 95% of it.

[Kuririn Fan]

Look what happened with GT and Super.

And there are 519 chapters, my dear admins, Trunks special chapter isn't numbered.

Which is a shame cause they both had a lot of potential to be great.

I know but it's easier to say 520 instead of 519 and a special chapter.

519 chapters, last chapter is 519. Z doesnt have 293 episodes because of 2 specials - it has 291.

[ABED]

Look what happened with GT and Super.

And there are 519 chapters, my dear admins, Trunks special chapter isn't numbered.

Which is a shame cause they both had a lot of potential to be great.

I know but it's easier to say 520 instead of 519 and a special chapter.

519 chapters, last chapter is 519. Z doesnt have 293 episodes because of 2 specials - it has 291.

The TV specials weren't episode length. That's a bad analogy.

[Kuririn Fan]

The TV specials weren't episode length. That's a bad analogy.

Still, both are "special" cases. Last chapter is 519.

[ABED]

The TV specials weren't episode length. That's a bad analogy.

Still, both are "special" cases. Last chapter is 519.

But it's the length of a normal chapter. I find your distinction pedantic. It's not wrong, just pedantic.

[Kuririn Fan]

The TV specials weren't episode length. That's a bad analogy.

Still, both are "special" cases. Last chapter is 519.

But it's the length of a normal chapter.

Little bit longer, normal chapter is 15 pages, this special one - 19.

[ABED]

Again, that's incredibly pedantic. What issue do you have with saying Dragon Ball has 520 chapters? Even if it's a special chapter, it's still a chapter. The TV specials weren't episodes.

[Kuririn Fan]

Again, that's incredibly pedantic.

I do not care, the fact stays - last chapter is numbered as #519.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-519/

[ABED]

Again, that's incredibly pedantic.

I do not care, the fact stays - last chapter is numbered as #519.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-519/

The main narrative, yes, but there are 520 chapters total as a special chapter is still a chapter.

Back on topic, I wouldn't say it tarnished the brand, but I do think Toriyama's lack of planning does hurt the stories.

[Kuririn Fan]

Again, that's incredibly pedantic.

I do not care, the fact stays - last chapter is numbered as #519.
http://www.kanzenshuu.com/manga/chp-519/

The main narrative, yes, but there are 520 chapters total as a special chapter is still a chapter.

Back on topic, I wouldn't say it tarnished the brand, but I do think Toriyama's lack of planning does hurt the stories.

519 numbered chapters.

[Kamiccolo9]

519 numbered chapters.

For the love of God, we get it.

[Kuririn Fan]

519 numbered chapters.

For the love of God, we get it.

But obviously ABED doesnt, since he feels the need to reply every time.

[Kamiccolo9]

519 numbered chapters.

For the love of God, we get it.

But obviously ABED doesnt, since he feels the need to reply every time.

And you're being an obnoxious prick. Just drop it.

[ABED]

I clearly got it, I simply think you are making too big of a deal about a technicality. Maybe I shouldn't have so we can keep the thread on topic.

[Kuririn Fan]

And you're being an obnoxious prick. Just drop it.

How should i respond to this? You could tell me to drop it without calling me names, i dont think that was necessary.

[Basaku]

Assuming it's true, not exactly sure why would he be pissed at Super. All the main flaws of Super sans animation (Toei's job) come from Toriyama's plot outline so, yeah.

[Ryuman]

You know, even Toriyama is pissed off by Super

Really? I heard he wasn't a fan of the animation, but haven't heard anything along the lines of that.

I can't tell you the source because it's insider information, but he surely got turned off and reluctant to keep being involved with Super, so they had to provide him with some basic ideas for the plot of the new Goku Black arc.

This is honsetly one of the worst things I could ever hear in regards to the franchise. I thought handing Toriyama ideas for the Future Trunks arc was just executive meddling, but this is far worse to me somehow. After all this time since BOG, things have been looking great in terms of Toriyama's enthusiasm. He's warmed up again, and it's made me very happy about the franchise. After hearing this, I just don't know how to feel anymore...

[B]

I may be misinterpreting what Kei is saying, but not only is it disheartening to hear the show has upset Toriyama, but "having to provide some basic ideas for the plot" sounds like rehashing the Cell arc and Movie 3 is the thing that keeps Toriyama interested. If the brilliant, never-been-done-before idea of an evil Goku was all it took to satiate him, I can't imagine how poor their first idea was.