Stronger or weaker after absorbing South Kaioushin?

[Magneto]

Ok, if Goku is the strongest. Then why didn't he destroy Fat Buu in their battle?

- Answer: He isn't the strongest, he knew he couldn't beat Buu so he turned to using Goten & Trunks.

He said that it wasn`t his job to do it and he wanted the boys to have a chance at saving the world . It is later stated , before the fight with Kid Boo that he could have beaten Fat Buu if he wanted but he wanted to let the boys have a chance at saving the world .

And during his fight agaisnt Kid Buu he really is getting the crap beat out of him and has no control in the battle whatsoever. I'm not saying Kid Buu is the strongest Buu, i'm just saying he is stronger than Goku.

1.He isn`t getting the crap beating out of him .
2.It is stated that Goku is stronger than Kid Bo at full power .

Next time you wanna discuss with me , get your facts straight .

[KillerCory]

Next time you wanna discuss with me , get your facts straight .

I don't think I want to discuss with you ever again.

[SS2 Vegeto]

But it is clear he is a fluent Japanese speaking person too.

I'm not fluent

It's the same as if I told someone I know they killed someone and they reply, "I killed someone?" They're not implying they killed someone, but asking a question. Again, his face shows a great deal of discomfort as if he didn't want to do it. I'll try to get a scan later.

You`re example is one of the worst . And in this case , there`s really no need for a question . Why exactly would he do that ? Why would he ask something obvious , if not for showing that it`s something they will do ?

Glad you're feeling better. What's keeping you from school? I've had the day off today too, although I hadn't checked up on any of the forums I attend until just now.

Well I went to the doctor because I was feeling bad and I could barely sleep at night , so that`s pretty much the reason I missed school .

It was a fairly slow transformation from Shin Buu to Chibi Buu, and it doesn't make much sense that Buff Buu would even appear if only by Chibi Buu's own ki, being that if his own ki remains alone, he should be....Chibi Buu. All that it would require to have passed through a stronger form first would be for the powerful, or "beneficial" ki to have remained longer than the detrimental ki. As it washed out and vanished, it simply cleared out some of the "junk" before all of it drained out all togethe

It makes sense if Buff Buu appears even if only Kid Buu`s ki was present because it furher sustains the fact that South Kaioshin couldn`t have made him stronger thus Kid Buu`s ki was only necessary . And as I said , Good Boo was an amalgam of South Kaioshin and Dai Kaioshin so if ki from him would have still remained for some time on Super Buu , eventough I seriously doubt that and it`s just a speculation , it couldn`t have made Super Buu stronger but only sustain his power for a time until all the remaining traces disspear .

"And" isn't an incorrect translation. Neither would "or" be. If you translate that character to one word, you have to substitute it for one of those words. The point is, that neither "and" nor "or" is more or less correct translation to one word of this particular character "ya", but to mean exclusively "and" or "or" their are two entirely different characters. The character used here is the particle "ya", different than both. If I were to phrase it in a way that I think I could best express it in English...maybe "Gohan, perhaps Gotenks", "Gohan, maybe Gotenks", "Gohan, possibly Gotenks", etc. It's something that could mean either one, or both.

You know , I actually asked the japanese guy to translate the whole sentence for me . And here`s what I got : Ok , I got it ! Are you going to restore Gohan and Gotenks back to life again so they can fight ? . They they shows that it reffered to both of them fighting thus the "ya" symbol actually means [and] in this case . I can`t belive this was actually so simple lol

I don't believe that the size matters, at all. If you are weaker, you have a lower power level. If your size makes you weaker, you have a weaker power level in accordance to that. Your power level is your strength, the measurement of your ability to cause damage. What you are saying, to me, is akin to saying the SSJ2 Complete Cell couldn't actually wipe out the solar system with all of his ki, because the solar system is countless times larger than him, and infinitesimal difference. And regardless of what got him their, Vegetto was smaller. And if smaller size results in lesser strength and ability, no matter how strong you are you should not be immune to the normal process of power decreasing with size...regardless of how weak the ki was (comparitavely) in the attack that put you in that position...because Buu's henka beam turns you into candy, normally quite small, and Vegetto was evidently turned into a very small piece of candy - I see no reason to assume differently for him, which is somehow a given for anyone else. The only thing his huge level of ki would, should, and did effect was the ability to harness and use his ki in a state that normally would have made that difficult to impossible; i.e. as an otherwise inanimate object (retaining a soul of course, to make this possible for even him). If the ki of Goku and Vegeta was not weakened, then the strengths of Goku and Vegeta were not weakened - the actuall ki remaining at full not even a particulat subject of debate, the absorbed persons supplying Buu with their full ki. "Like this" could very easily refer to them being in an unfused state, and almost certainly did, fusion being mentioned in the next breath, and continually emphasized afterwards. On taking down Buu after rescuing everyone, that wouldn't quite be difficult if the "absorbee's" were their to fight, assuming one of them, generally, and two of them including use of fusion were stronger. With Vegeta intending to free them and just leave, he would die in just about any scenario now, wouldn't he?

It`s not the same as wiping out a solar system or a planet because in this case , the enemy can actually regenerate and avoid the blast . And it also takes some time in order for Goku to charge a very huge blast compared to his size , and what do you think Super Buu would do in that time ? Besides , his SSJ3 holds up for a very short time . And let`s also not forget the fact that they still had Gohan & the others to protect .
And as I said , being transformed into a candy and your size being reduced with the absorption tehnique are 2 very different things . Vegeto practically was transformed into a candy , that by definition is smaller , his size wasn`t actually reduced like Goku & Vegeta`s size were .
Goku mentioned the fusion because it was their only chance of beating Buu in their condition , it doesn`t suggest that they will need it at normal size also . And since like this reffers to their condition which were being both smaller and unfused with no specification to which one of them , it means it reffers to both . As for Vegeta & Goku`s comments , they didn`t even insinuate that they won`t need it because the other will be fighting .Besides , they didn`t know in what condition the others will be when they will find them .

I would have to agree with Mag on this I think that Kid buu is stronger than Super Buu .Mag has made most of the points I would have used so I will not repeat them .I also think if Gotenks or Gohan had fought Kid Buu they would have been in bother if he had used his instant trans on them.Goku could have handled this though I know this is just speculation.It could have been the way it was dubbed but last night I watched the episode in which Goku and Vegeta were given the potara for the second time (while Kid Buu was blowing up planets). In this episode the supreme kai said ,word for word,"Now that Buu is back to his original form he is STRONGER than ever".He said this after the earings were crushed by Goku and Vegeta. This is my opinion which I am entitled to.I typed this quickly as I on my work break so there is probably gram mistakes.If you are responding to this please ensure it is about my comments and not petty remarks about punctuation etc. Thank you !

We are talking about the manga and Kaioshin says Kid Buu is the strongest only in the anime . But yeah , Kid Buu > Gohan & Gotenks .. but he is not stronger than Super Buu w/Gohan. He is the 3rd strongest Boo after Super Buu w/Gohan and Super Buu w/Gotenks .

Being the product of a past absorbtion, and not naturally a part of Chibi Buu's ki, a regression back to Buff Buu (when the degression back to Chibi Buu was not even complete in the first place) could not be a product of Chibi's energy alone. Further, I still hold to the event of all the energy leaving him at once, being highly illogical in base nature. I doubt the Good Buu's energy just maintained a perfect balance as it flowed out of Shin Buu's body, so leaving traces of certain energies longer is both completely plausible, and largely probable. Dai Kaioshin's energies (other less beneficial energies, maybe) drain out, and the positive influence is all that is left. Thus, it makes him stronger until that drains out as well.

This is actually why I don't trust "the Japanese guy". I know for a fact the meaning of that symbol, as I know the meaning of a word in english - and it cannot be limited to one definition, nor can it be conclusively defined as one word or the other unless the context of that phrase absolutely demands it - and this phrase certainly does not.

If Goku alone were far stronger than him, to the point that he could kill an even more powerful incarnation "in an instant", were he to reach full power, and Vegeta was fighting alongside, and they would be extremely difficult to hit, I wouldn't find that such would warrant the idea that exiting this Buu's body and fighting on their own strength would somehow inevitably lead to their death's. Not only can Buu be beaten to death against a much stronger opponent, tire, and run out of ki, but the idea that they were completely screwed beyond reason in an unfused state no matter what they did...only solidifies all of this for me even further. Regardless of whether your actual body is made small, or you are transformed into an object that is small, you are small. If being small somehow caused them to become weaker without their power levels changing at all, then being small, no matter what...made you that way, if the actuall size is the cause of this disadvantage, that is all that matters. I see no indication that it refers to both. The only thing mentioned about their dissadvantage in their current "state" in that discussion was about them being not fused, needing fusion, Vegeta destroying their chances by destroying the potara, another fusion being possible, dying otherwise....it all seems to be about fusion, and although it was possible that they had considered size, I find no reason to assume that, based on...nothing. Just because they were both small and unfused does not mean that their current "state" refers to both by default, especially when fusion is the main (and only) subject of discussion following.

[Mystery Person X]

You know , I actually asked the japanese guy to translate the whole sentence for me . And here`s what I got : Ok , I got it ! Are you going to restore Gohan and Gotenks back to life again so they can fight ? . They they shows that it reffered to both of them fighting thus the "ya" symbol actually means [and] in this case . I can`t belive this was actually so simple lol

The Japanese language generally leaves out pronouns. There is no word meaning "they" in this Japanese sentence; it's just that you have to add it in when translating it into English (depending on how you translated the rest of the sentence) to produce a coherent English sentence. Don't embolden the word "they" as if it's some really crucial part of the original sentence when it's actually not there at all

Also, did you ignore the dictionary link I gave you?

[Mystery Person X]

Quick analysis of the whole sentence before you argue about it:

gohan = Gohan
ya = (our point of contention =)
gotenkusu = Gotenks
wo = (particle that follows the direct object of a sentence)
ikikaerasete = restore (literally "make come back to life")
tatakatte = fight
moraou = let's receive (as in "let's get him/them to fight for us")
tte = (a way to "quote" what he thinks Vegeta is saying, as if to say "-This- is your point, right?")
n = (short for "no"; often used when stating a fact or reason, but doesn't really translate literally to anything)
da = is

Not a single pronoun ("they" or otherwise) in the whole sentence.

[Magneto]

You`ve just lost . By that literal translation the "ya" particle means "and" because both of them had been revived . By your literal translation , the sentence translates this way : You`ve revived Gohan and/or Gotenks to have them fight for us. . And since he revived both of them , the "ya" particle in this case means and .
My translation was mistaken because the translator didn`t know the time Goku was talking about , that being if he already revived them or if he will revive them , so he worded it as them being revived in the future but it was instead in the past when both of them had been revived , thus the sentence says You`ve revived Gohan and Gotenks to have them fight for us .

That was simple .

Being the product of a past absorbtion, and not naturally a part of Chibi Buu's ki, a regression back to Buff Buu (when the degression back to Chibi Buu was not even complete in the first place) could not be a product of Chibi's energy alone. Further, I still hold to the event of all the energy leaving him at once, being highly illogical in base nature. I doubt the Good Buu's energy just maintained a perfect balance as it flowed out of Shin Buu's body, so leaving traces of certain energies longer is both completely plausible, and largely probable. Dai Kaioshin's energies (other less beneficial energies, maybe) drain out, and the positive influence is all that is left. Thus, it makes him stronger until that drains out as well.

It doesn`t matter if it`s a product of a past absorption as long as he had the power alone to attain that transformation , which it seems he had . And what proof do you have that Good Buu`s energy didn`t suddenly leave Super Buu`s body ? What proof do you have that Dai Kaiosin`s energy drained out and all was left inside of Boo was South Kaioshin`s energy ? (Which frankly I find absurb because there wasn`t actually 2 absorption but only one , a combination between the 2 kais . It`s not like Good Boo was sending two types of energy , it was an combination between the 2 .)

This is actually why I don't trust "the Japanese guy". I know for a fact the meaning of that symbol, as I know the meaning of a word in english - and it cannot be limited to one definition, nor can it be conclusively defined as one word or the other unless the context of that phrase absolutely demands it - and this phrase certainly does not.

This has already been solved .

If Goku alone were far stronger than him, to the point that he could kill an even more powerful incarnation "in an instant", were he to reach full power, and Vegeta was fighting alongside, and they would be extremely difficult to hit, I wouldn't find that such would warrant the idea that exiting this Buu's body and fighting on their own strength would somehow inevitably lead to their death's. Not only can Buu be beaten to death against a much stronger opponent, tire, and run out of ki, but the idea that they were completely screwed beyond reason in an unfused state no matter what they did...only solidifies all of this for me even further. Regardless of whether your actual body is made small, or you are transformed into an object that is small, you are small. If being small somehow caused them to become weaker without their power levels changing at all, then being small, no matter what...made you that way, if the actuall size is the cause of this disadvantage, that is all that matters. I see no indication that it refers to both. The only thing mentioned about their dissadvantage in their current "state" in that discussion was about them being not fused, needing fusion, Vegeta destroying their chances by destroying the potara, another fusion being possible, dying otherwise....it all seems to be about fusion, and although it was possible that they had considered size, I find no reason to assume that, based on...nothing. Just because they were both small and unfused does not mean that their current "state" refers to both by default, especially when fusion is the main (and only) subject of discussion following.

You just ignored my explinations as to why the size would be a big disadvantage in their fight against Super Buu . In order to completly eradicate Super Buu , SSJ3 Goku would have to produce an attack like ... milions of times bigger than him , and let`s also remember that in that time Super Buu wouldn`t just stand there and wait for him to make it . Then there`s really no certainity that the attack would completly erase every trace of Boo .Then let`s not also forget the fact that the SSj3 transformation lasts a short time , and the fact that they had others to protect .
The fact that Goku could kill Kid Buu in an instant at his normal size doesn`t really make any difference here because he wasn`t normal .
And since Goku was surprised/shocked from regaining his size , it means it didn`t expect it once exiting , thus he reffered to both size and the fact that they were unfused . And even if he wasn`t surprised , that would change anything , because Goku still said "like this" .

[Magneto]

Yep , I`ve consulted 3 other translators and they all confirmed it .

Since the "reviving" already took place , an action which both Gohan and Gotenks were implied it means that "ya" in this context means "and" thus the correct translation is "Gohan and Gotenks to have them fight for us" .

The literal translation :

なんだ、わかったぞ！ Yes, I got you.

悟飯やゴテンクスを生きかえらせて Reviving Gohan, Gotenks (and others),

戦ってもらおうってんだ have them fight (for us). That is/was your intention.

[Mystery Person X]

You`ve just lost . By that literal translation the "ya" particle means "and" because both of them had been revived . By your literal translation , the sentence translates this way : You`ve revived Gohan and/or Gotenks to have them fight for us.

Eh? The entire sentence is in the present tense. (When did I imply otherwise? You seem to have just made that up...?)

What's more, the use of the "-ou" form (used for talking about things you plan to do) shows that Goku is talking in theory about what Vegeta's plan might have been, not specifically about what he did.

While the fact that it already happened does fairly concretely make "Gohan and Gotenks" the best English translation, we established a week ago that it was a perfectly fine translation, and that's never been what I was arguing about. The Japanese text still doesn't imply that Goku believes Vegeta's plan necessarily required them to both be revived, regardless of what he actually did.

It's a subtle difference I know. But there is ambiguity in the Japanese text. If Goku was literally just restating what Vegeta had already done, he could easily have said "Gohan to Gotenks".

[Magneto]

Then you agree that the correct translation is Gohan and Gotenks , thus the translation being "have Gohan and Gotenks fight for us" ? Because that would practically make our whole discussion useless from the beginning .

[Mystery Person X]

Then you agree that the correct translation is Gohan and Gotenks , thus the translation being "have Gohan and Gotenks fight for us" ? Because that would practically make our whole discussion useless from the beginning .

How do you manage to miss the point so thoroughly when I just explained it to you?

Firstly, there is no such thing as "the correct translation". Ever. Translation is an art, not a science.

Secondly, I'm not discussing what would be the most accurate or appropriate English translation. Any English translation of any Japanese text is likely to lose some of the nuance of the original, and that absolutely is the case here.

What I'm discussing is the nuance of the Japanese dialogue and why the ambiguity of it (difficult if not impossible to translate into English as part of a coherent sentence) makes your argument less concrete than you would like it to be.

In other words... "Gohan and Gotenks" is an accurate translation but not a 100% complete representation of the Japanese dialogue. If you're going back to the Japanese text as a source, deciding on the best English translation and then flat-out ignoring any of the nuance that can't be included in that translation kind of defeats the point of even looking at the Japanese text, doesn't it? We're not writing an English translation of the manga - we can be as long-winded as we like in dissecting any given line.

[Magneto]

Okay now , let me get this straight .

First , you bust into the discussion saying this :

The key here is the particle や (ya), which not only doesn't mean "and"

Then later , you change it to it possibly meaning either Gohan and Gotenks or Gohan or Gotenks .

And now you tell me that the correct translation indeed is "to have Gohan and Gotenks fight for us" , but you still bring me this nuance of the Japanese dialogue and the ambiguity of it , when I`ve showed you wrong .

Funny how you change your opinion so fast .

[Black Mist]

Funny how you change your opinion so fast .

Funny how its been about a month and all you do is argue over this topic. How funny *sigh* .

[Magneto]

It`s not funny , it`s actually becoming pretty boring

[Mystery Person X]

It's really not that complicated.

Let's say X means Y in Japanese. But there is no word in English that means Y, so you have to translate it to either A or B, either of which might better approximate Y depending on context.

This is a very common occurence. Different languages do not have 1:1 matching between words, so you end up with words like "ya" in Japanese that can't be directly translated into English. There is no English word that will convey all of the meaning of the word "ya". Instead, you have to decide on the best English equivalent for a given situation (in this case "and"), while bearing in mind that your chosen English word does not convey all of the meaning of the Japanese word.

What I'm discussing is the meaning of the Japanese word, which can only be conveyed in English by way of a lengthy explanation, because there isn't any English word that has the same meaning. I'm not discussing how I would approximate the word in order to translate the line into English, because that's not precise enough for our needs in this situation.

My opinion has remained consistent all along (and I even agreed about a week ago that "Gohan and Gotenks" was a perfectly adequate as a translation). "Ya" does not mean the same as the English word "and". That "or" element is always present, even if it might not be the best translation.

[SS2 Vegeto]

You`ve just lost . By that literal translation the "ya" particle means "and" because both of them had been revived . By your literal translation , the sentence translates this way : You`ve revived Gohan and/or Gotenks to have them fight for us. . And since he revived both of them , the "ya" particle in this case means and .
My translation was mistaken because the translator didn`t know the time Goku was talking about , that being if he already revived them or if he will revive them , so he worded it as them being revived in the future but it was instead in the past when both of them had been revived , thus the sentence says You`ve revived Gohan and Gotenks to have them fight for us .

That was simple .

Being the product of a past absorbtion, and not naturally a part of Chibi Buu's ki, a regression back to Buff Buu (when the degression back to Chibi Buu was not even complete in the first place) could not be a product of Chibi's energy alone. Further, I still hold to the event of all the energy leaving him at once, being highly illogical in base nature. I doubt the Good Buu's energy just maintained a perfect balance as it flowed out of Shin Buu's body, so leaving traces of certain energies longer is both completely plausible, and largely probable. Dai Kaioshin's energies (other less beneficial energies, maybe) drain out, and the positive influence is all that is left. Thus, it makes him stronger until that drains out as well.

It doesn`t matter if it`s a product of a past absorption as long as he had the power alone to attain that transformation , which it seems he had . And what proof do you have that Good Buu`s energy didn`t suddenly leave Super Buu`s body ? What proof do you have that Dai Kaiosin`s energy drained out and all was left inside of Boo was South Kaioshin`s energy ? (Which frankly I find absurb because there wasn`t actually 2 absorption but only one , a combination between the 2 kais . It`s not like Good Boo was sending two types of energy , it was an combination between the 2 .)

This is actually why I don't trust "the Japanese guy". I know for a fact the meaning of that symbol, as I know the meaning of a word in english - and it cannot be limited to one definition, nor can it be conclusively defined as one word or the other unless the context of that phrase absolutely demands it - and this phrase certainly does not.

This has already been solved .

If Goku alone were far stronger than him, to the point that he could kill an even more powerful incarnation "in an instant", were he to reach full power, and Vegeta was fighting alongside, and they would be extremely difficult to hit, I wouldn't find that such would warrant the idea that exiting this Buu's body and fighting on their own strength would somehow inevitably lead to their death's. Not only can Buu be beaten to death against a much stronger opponent, tire, and run out of ki, but the idea that they were completely screwed beyond reason in an unfused state no matter what they did...only solidifies all of this for me even further. Regardless of whether your actual body is made small, or you are transformed into an object that is small, you are small. If being small somehow caused them to become weaker without their power levels changing at all, then being small, no matter what...made you that way, if the actuall size is the cause of this disadvantage, that is all that matters. I see no indication that it refers to both. The only thing mentioned about their dissadvantage in their current "state" in that discussion was about them being not fused, needing fusion, Vegeta destroying their chances by destroying the potara, another fusion being possible, dying otherwise....it all seems to be about fusion, and although it was possible that they had considered size, I find no reason to assume that, based on...nothing. Just because they were both small and unfused does not mean that their current "state" refers to both by default, especially when fusion is the main (and only) subject of discussion following.

You just ignored my explinations as to why the size would be a big disadvantage in their fight against Super Buu . In order to completly eradicate Super Buu , SSJ3 Goku would have to produce an attack like ... milions of times bigger than him , and let`s also remember that in that time Super Buu wouldn`t just stand there and wait for him to make it . Then there`s really no certainity that the attack would completly erase every trace of Boo .Then let`s not also forget the fact that the SSj3 transformation lasts a short time , and the fact that they had others to protect .
The fact that Goku could kill Kid Buu in an instant at his normal size doesn`t really make any difference here because he wasn`t normal .
And since Goku was surprised/shocked from regaining his size , it means it didn`t expect it once exiting , thus he reffered to both size and the fact that they were unfused . And even if he wasn`t surprised , that would change anything , because Goku still said "like this" .

How exactly would you be able to form a stage that is the product of absorbtion without any energy external to your own/once external to your own? There isn't proof that it didn't. Yet I could bring up the exact same argument in saying that there isn't any evidence that it did. Based on this, I will clearly way both assumptions against eachother, based purely on what seems likely and possible. Part of the essence of your being leaving...instantly, does not. Furthermore, the first Majin Buu we had seen clearly displayed different...shades of ki within in. His nature was quite unstable, despite being one being. The third Buu we see is affected on multiple occasions by his absorbtion of the innocent Buu. Majin Buu also absorbs traits. It's not as cut an dry as getting more of your own energy, as it is mixing that of others with it.

I think, hardly. You have a group of online translators claiming this. We have one translator, who spent a year living there, and three Japanese - English dictionaries in my household purchased and ordered from that country. And an online dictionary. When I look at these definitions written on the rather expensive paper in front of me, see them confirm eachother, and be confirmed by another, I am hardly content to say that the problem is solved and the error was on our part. =/

I didn't really get a reply to my "beaten to death" point, likewise...in addition to my explanation of the "candy" scenario, and the insignificance of it's difference to the state of Goku and Vegeta. They didn't even act like they could buy time and figure something out.

[caejones]

This topic has become civil enough that I think I can say stuff.


First, "ya". "and" is a good translation for that sentence, because Gohan and Gotenks (or rather the components there of) would both be revived, along with other people. It doesn't indicate who is coming to fight; the object is the same, but the object is nonspecific and refers to a group. Umm... something like "Your plan is/was to revive Gohan, Gotenks, Etc, for the purpose of fighting". The "ya" in this context would indicate that the revival could include Gohan and Gotenks, or Gohan, Gotenks and Piccolo, or Gohan, Gotenks and the Trix Rabbit; it doesn't indicate who of the group would fight, just that their revival makes them potential fighters. Actually I think that fell apart in my last sentence. I lose. .

The fact that the fat Buu/Boo (I have no idea which to use here... :O ) was disconnected before the transformation into "buff" Boo seems to be the strongest argument I've seen for Chibi Boo's power. I find SS2Vegeto's counter argument possible, but unsubstantiated, so it seems impossible to prove either way on this point.

As for the size issue.

Is it anime only when Goku and Vegeta manage to create a hole from inside Shin Boo through which they can see daylight before it is closed?

This reminds me of a discussion somewhere on Daizex (off hand, I don't remember where it is). Consider that in order for a force to affect an area, it either must act on the whole area, or be transmitted through the area by other means. (My termenology might be slipping, which usually results in someone pointing it out, me making a long response, and then the thread getting sidetracked and I come out as the idiot... Umm... so... I hope my meaning is clear.). To illustrate what I'm talking about (and not prove a point on this topic, just to... ur... set up that part), think of shooting a bullet (or ki blast) through a large disk. If the disk is of a Buu-like stretchy substance, the blast might be able to go through, but the rest of the disk will be fairly in tact, even if it is stretched some, because it'll recoil. If it's shot through a rocky substance, the same thing might happen; not through elasticity, but just because only part of the rock is damaged. But say we have something made of a brittle substance. Same resistance as the other two, but the force of the blast is transmitted through the whole object and it collapses afterward.

And that pointless bit of example brings up...

The entire body has the same resistance (in theory; ki can be focused in various areas, things can be tensed... but over all), so... does a blast strong enough to over come the resistance have the same effect if it hits a small area, or a large one, given that it has the same power to penetrate the body? So basically, if tiny Goku and Vegeta blasted a hole in Shin Boo's head, it's a hole. If they're the same size and use the same blast, only it is bigger, would it just make a hole in his head?

Of course, we ask: wouldn't more energy be involved? How does the size affect their abilities to build the size of the blast? What about everyone that would have been caught in a huge blast formed by tiny Goku? So ... I think I confused myself rather than contributing anything... but for some reason I post anyway.

The ... somewhat dead point about Goku's (rough paraphrase) "So, we have to defeat you in here, then find a way out?" ... It's a retorical question, a reaction... this happens a lot, especially in fiction (like the ever irritating skipping-of-recap by having someone say, "So, you guys did all of the stuff you just told me?").

I'll try to make a good example for comparison, but if it is bad, well... I'm sorry.

Say we have a couple of random warriors, fighting a random enemy (barring all Bio Broli references, let's say it's a gelatenous creature). The enemy is pretty unphased by the warriors' attacks because of its jello-ness, but water does seem to cause damage (dissolving, maybe?) to the parts of it that it hits.

One of the warriors notices this (because... something wet hit Jello-man), and says to the other, "It looks like water can hurt him!" To which the other responds, "So now we have to find enough water to drench him without getting killed in the process?". Somewhat awkward, but understandable. I think that's sorta what's going on with Goku's sweatdrop statement/question... but... it really doesn't matter, I guess.


I like how this discussion has gone in the last two pages compared to the rest.

... no proofreading of this post. I hope I know what I'm doing.

[Tyro]

Is it anime only when Goku and Vegeta manage to create a hole from inside Shin Boo through which they can see daylight before it is closed?

Well, not entirely. In the manga a small dent is made, but Goku's ki blast doesn't go all the way through Shin Boo.

[SS2 Vegeto]

The blast didn't get through. It made a small dent. The only hole they saw light through was the one already in Shin Buu's head, which they escaped through.

[Mystic Jack]

Funny what happens when you leave a topic alone for a while.

Chaos my dear Watson, Utter Chaos.

[Magneto]

Okay , I`m back .

How exactly would you be able to form a stage that is the product of absorbtion without any energy external to your own/once external to your own? There isn't proof that it didn't. Yet I could bring up the exact same argument in saying that there isn't any evidence that it did. Based on this, I will clearly way both assumptions against eachother, based purely on what seems likely and possible. Part of the essence of your being leaving...instantly, does not. Furthermore, the first Majin Buu we had seen clearly displayed different...shades of ki within in. His nature was quite unstable, despite being one being. The third Buu we see is affected on multiple occasions by his absorbtion of the innocent Buu. Majin Buu also absorbs traits. It's not as cut an dry as getting more of your own energy, as it is mixing that of others with it

If the Southern Kaioushin didn`t made him stronger , which is pretty much shown due to statements/actions then there wouldn`t be need for South Kaioshin to attain that transformation because Kid Buu`s ki would already be enough . Nothing is assumption here , the fact is that :

1.Good Boo was disconnected from Boo`s body
2.Boo raised his ki and attained the Buff Buu transformation despite the fact that there was no source from where he could raise his ki besides Kid Boo , Good Boo already being disconnected from his body .

From 1 and 2 we conclude to the fact that Kid Buu`s ki level was enough to attain the Buff Buu transformation thus Kid Boo >= Buff Buu (It is debatable if Southern Kaioshin either raised or didn`t affect Kid Boo`s strength at all) and we also know that Buff Buu > Super Buu . Thus Kid Buu >= Buff Buu > Super Buu .

There is absolutley no proof that there was still residual ki from Good Boo inside Super Boo and even if it was , since Good Boo is an amalgam of both kais (South and Dai Kaioshin) , if there was there could have only made so that Super Buu`s power would have still be constant for some time before the residual ki leaves .

I think, hardly. You have a group of online translators claiming this. We have one translator, who spent a year living there, and three Japanese - English dictionaries in my household purchased and ordered from that country. And an online dictionary. When I look at these definitions written on the rather expensive paper in front of me, see them confirm eachother, and be confirmed by another, I am hardly content to say that the problem is solved and the error was on our part. =/

You have a translator that spent a year there and three Japanese English dictionaries while I have 3 native Japanese and 3 official translated mangas , all by professionals . Two of the guys that translated the text live in Japan , one of them living in Tokyo .

Some explinations :

It's "and" in this case.
It's to bring Gohan, Gotenks (and anybody else) back to life.

Yes, "he reffered to both of them fighting Boo", because the same Object "Gohan 'ya' Gotenkusu" is applied.

The meaning of this 'ya' is close but a little different from 'to'. This 'ya' implies bringing back some others aｌong with the two (if there are more than two). If there are only two to be brought back, 'ya' is the same as 'to' and the usage of 'ya' is rather euphemistic (somewhat like a usage of 'nado').

I didn't really get a reply to my "beaten to death" point, likewise...in addition to my explanation of the "candy" scenario, and the insignificance of it's difference to the state of Goku and Vegeta. They didn't even act like they could buy time and figure something out.

Goku couldn`t beat Boo to death because his SSJ3 form wouldn`t last long enough , thus the need for him to make an attack big and strong enough while being thousands of times smaller than his normal size , which is impossible . And as I said , the statement that Goku made in regards to them beating him and finding an exit wasn`t a question , it was more like a remark concerning what they are going to do .