So Tenshinhan is the only male not paired up with a woman

[Kanassa]

As soon as I saw the title of this thread, I had a feeling it was going to go in a certain direction. I was right. If he is in a relationship with Chaozu, I hope that Chaozu is in the dominant role for his sake.

Speaking of that, does anyone worry that if this was true in any stretch of the word... Would Chaozu's body be able to handle that?

Also, why does Ten need a lover? It'll take up precous time he could be using to enlarge his shoulders even more.

[Kamiccolo9]

The Yugioh card is Ghostrick Jiangshi, a member of the Ghostrick archetype that utilizes s bunch of different monsters across various cultures (Dracula, Frankenstein's Monster, a werewolf, mummy, and a couple of others that I don't know the context for, like "Yuki-Onna" and "Nekomusume.")

[sintzu]

Why does Ten need a lover? It'll take up precious time he could be using to enlarge his shoulders even more.

They're not large anymore so it looks like he stopped in Super.

[dbgtFO]

Thanks for the info @Kunzait_83 & Kamiccolo9.
Thought I had seen the female Jiangshi in pink before, just couldn't put my finger on it! And that 4th one being a Yugioh card, I didn't see coming, doesn't really look like one.

[rereboy]

Thought I had seen the female Jiangshi in pink before, just couldn't put my finger on it!

http://capcom.wikia.com/wiki/Hsien-Ko

[Kunzait_83]

I know, but it looks more like a doll than an actual undead spirit. At least, my idea of a dead spirit.

Yeah, but the point is it doesn't matter what you're personal idea of a dead spirit is: that's what the character is modeled after. Jiangshi are still a thing that have not only existed (in fiction I mean, obviously), they've existed for a VERY long time and as something fairly popular and ubiquitous throughout a decent chunk of the world. Its okay if you're not in on it, but that doesn't mean that it somehow matters less.

That was part of the reason for me doing the whole big wuxia thread in the first place: to make a point that just because you personally don't know what something is doesn't mean it doesn't exist and furthermore that it isn't kind of a big deal elsewhere. One group of people out of a zillion others not being in on something doesn't make that something lesser. The world is a whole lot bigger than just you and your little neck of the woods: isn't that a main theme that's harped on a ton by a bunch of Shonen that so many people here like?

I mean look at it this way: a lot of people here claim that had FUNimation never dubbed DBZ and aired it on Cartoon Network (or syndication before that), they'd have NEVER otherwise heard of or gotten into it. Let's say that DID happen: FUNi never licensed or dubbed or aired it. Therefore a bunch of people on this forum never got into it. Would that change or otherwise diminish DB's overall pop cultural importance and ubiquity throughout the rest of the world in any way? Would it somehow "matter less" as a cultural entity just because mainstream U.S. children never heard of it? I argue that it would not, not one bit.

Just because something doesn't fit one's own personal idea of "what things are supposed to be" doesn't mean that that's how it is for everyone everywhere, or even for most other people in general. The whole sexual debate thing that was raised here is a small testament to that.

[rereboy]

Yeah, but the point is it doesn't matter what you're personal idea of a dead spirit is: that's what the character is modeled after.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I was just explaining why I chose to say it looked like a doll instead of what it was modeled after. This is mostly about culture, I'm pretty sure that if I was asian I would associate that look more easily to what it's modeled rather than a doll, but I'm not and thus that look reminds me much more of a doll than what it's actually modeled after, and I imagine that for many western folk it will be the same.

[floofychan333]

I'm pretty sure Tenshinhan's asexual too. I think Launch came to live with him in the Buu arc but he didn't want any romantic relationship. And him being in a relationship with Chiaotzu is just too weird to imagine.

[Kunzait_83]

and a couple of others that I don't know the context for, like "Yuki-Onna" and "Nekomusume.")

Yuki-Onna is a famous Japanese snow-spirit who shows up in a ton of Japanese ghost stories. The one that I (and a lot of other people) know her most famously from being Kwaidan (both the book and the movie).


Movie's incredible BTW.

According to her lore she's mainly seen appearing in terrible snow storms, and she tends to prey upon lost travelers who are stranded in the storm, freezing them to death and encasing them in ice.

Nekomusume I think is the transformed state of a Bakeneko, another Japanese folkloric creature: a cat spirit who can switch between a female form and a feline form. Felicia from Darkstalkers is one, and they show up in a LOT assorted of anime in general.

[Kamiccolo9]

You know, Kunzait, I'm kind of surprised you don't have at least a minor interest in Yugioh. Even beyond the show, there are literally thousands of callbacks and references to various mythologies, historical and cultural events, and pop culture, both eastern and western. I mean, I don't play the game or indulge in the franchise all that much anymore, but the anime artwork alone for a bunch of the things I've spent the last several years studying is interesting, to say the least.

[Kunzait_83]

You know, Kunzait, I'm kind of surprised you don't have at least a minor interest in Yugioh. Even beyond the show, there are literally thousands of callbacks and references to various mythologies, historical and cultural events, and pop culture, both eastern and western. I mean, I don't play the game or indulge in the franchise all that much anymore, but the anime artwork alone for a bunch of the things I've spent the last several years studying is interesting, to say the least.

I know about those aspects of it. The one among the bunch that it touches on that's by far the most interesting to me is Egyptian lore, because Egyptian myth is in general WAY too criminally under-utilized and glossed over by a ton of geek media in general. Its a very rich cultural history that by all means should be delved into more often by more stuff in general.

I've been shown some of the anime back in maybe the mid-ish 2000s. Its... not good, to put it charitably. Or less charitably, its kinda hot garbage. I mean yes, it sort of pays lip service to these folkloric creatures & concepts, but it doesn't really DO anything interesting with them or even give them that much real focus as anything more than themes for the cards. Much of the time (based on what I'd seen at least) they're just kind of used as a cheap prop. Mostly its just a shitty, crass commercial for a children's card game. Just like Transformers was never at any point anything more than a shitty, crass commercial for toys.

And the artwork for the anime is... also not in any which way good generally I don't think. It's not in any way visually distinctive, beyond Yugi's absurdly stupid hair at least, and doesn't really do anything to pass itself from any other generic Shonen/Pokemon ripoff thing besides sticking some Egyptian glyphs over some random things. The whole thing has an air of a trashy, chintzy, Wal-Mart-esque cash grab. I file it firmly under "its the nostalgia talking" whenever people hype it up as this defining, classic anime. The same people will often usually hype up other similar stuff like the Pokemon anime or Digimon in a similar fashion. And in all cases, its primarily because they "grew up with it". The case made for these sorts of shows generally always begins and ends there.

Sadly, I've done my time on a bunch of these kinds of "gotta collect em all!" anime shows (mostly back in college, as a consequence of fandom at the time most over-eagerly pushing this crap), even subbed, and (not that this is anything the least bit earth shatteringly revelatory) there's nothing of any value to any of these shows at all, other than placating toddlers for a half hour at a time and selling them plastic shit. The characters are all hollow nothings whose "middle school cool" appeal is not only eye-rollingly lame in itself but also something that's clearly the product of being market/focus group tested to within an inch of its life. The core stories and concepts themselves are vapid nonsense (that occasionally make VERY shallow, featherweight use of actually interesting cultural motifs), and the entire crux of their very existence is very obviously (to the point where your face is suffocatingly rubbed in it) to hype you up to mindlessly buy and collect garbage.

Yes, there's vague allusions & connections to some cool bits of mythical folklore in some of them, but you can EASILY do WAY infinitely fucking better at finding vastly more worthwhile material out there that puts said-folklore to vastly, vastly better use. Like without even having to try that hard.

The Yu Gi Oh manga I know is in most respects a totally different story from the anime. I didn't really have any intention of looking through it for a long while (I'd already seen things like the Pokemon manga and suchlike and didn't think YGO's would be much different), but Rocketman sold me pretty thoroughly on at least trying it out anyway awhile back. Still haven't quite gotten around to that, but its somewhere on the back burner. Apparently it supposedly does a LOT more with the occult/folkloric angle than the anime ever does (and Rocketman wasn't the first person I've heard say that either, lending a bit more veracity to the claim), particularly the Egyptian stuff. Hopefully its worth a look, but its not at the top of my priority list by any stretch. I'm exceedingly wary of this sort of thing in general by this point.

But either way, having references to fascinating international mythology and folklore is all perfectly well and good, but that alone in itself isn't very interesting if you're not actually using them well. I'll reserve judgement on the YGO manga, but the anime is a sack of awful just like the rest of its "collectible Shonen" brethren.

For all its many numerous faults, I give Dragon Ball this much credit: not only does it actually make WAY more creative use of its cultural roots than a ton of Shonen after it generally tends to, but no matter how popular or commercial it became, the core series (the manga, most of everything pre-GT basically) is just about always clearly the product of a singular author with a singular creative voice (silly and flighty as that voice was) and the freedom to do with it whatever he pleases. The marketing tail rarely ever wags the dog, which considering the level of kiddie sales juggernaut the series became is honestly kind of astounding. Its almost a unicorn in that particular regard.

TL;DR - Chintzy children's toy commercial show turns out to have little to no artistic or creative value. Who knew?

[Kamiccolo9]

Well, I was referring to the card game itself, not the show

Not that I'm expecting you to learn how to play the game or anything, but there's a lot of neat interactions between the myth that the cards in certain archetypes are based off of, and the gameplay mechanics that those archetypes revolve around. A King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table archetype, for example, revolves around using various Equip cards (famous swords from Arthurian lore) to gradually power up Arthur from a Knight, to a King, to a Holy King (as he's depicted in the legends that speak of his return.) My old playstyle consisted of "Bujin" monsters, which revolved around the Japanese myths concerning Susanoo and Orochi, powering up your monsters and protecting them with cards that reflected sacred relics of Japanese history.

Probably not enough to get someone to play the game, but I do find it to be interesting how the game designers can incorporate myth into gameplay mechanics.

And yeah, Rocketman's right. The manga is an entirely different beast than the anime. Yugioh is even more egregious with filler than Dragon Ball is, with about half the show consisting of filler arcs that focus on the toy-commercial aspect of the franchise more so than the actual plot.

[Kunzait_83]

Ah, well then.

I could never really get into those CCG type of things in general. I tried playing mainly Magic: The Gathering a bunch back when it first came out, and intermittently over the years since then up through to college or so. Was never really my thing. Those do sound like neat/clever mechanics though.

[Lord Beerus]

I'm sure Tien will find a woman that share the great interest in martial art and training in seclusion as he does. Until then, Lunch is on standy-by. Just need to get her into a fighting gi, and Tien would be all over her. C'mon Super, get cracking.

[dario03]

With someone who looks like he's 4.

Fictional or not, that's messed up.

He doesn't look like he is 4. He looks like a chinese doll that is very small/short. And Tenshinshan looks abnormal with his three eyes.

Anyway, the closest to reality to their pairing would be a adult guy with dwarfism and a normal adult sized guy. And there's really nothing wrong with that.

But that pairing isn't supported by anything in the series, while Lunch is, so they should just go ahead and give us some of that.

If that 26 year old has the size and looks of a 4,5 or 6 year old then yes.

You concern yourself way too much with what "looks right".

What if it Chaozu doesn't have dwarfism but has Syndrome X where he didn't grow up physically or mentally?

20 year old with mind and body of baby/toddler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2ehUOwjf1Y
9 year old like a new born, 29 year old boy, 31 year old toddler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUPZzJ6Pe64

[Kamiccolo9]

With someone who looks like he's 4.

Fictional or not, that's messed up.

He doesn't look like he is 4. He looks like a chinese doll that is very small/short. And Tenshinshan looks abnormal with his three eyes.

Anyway, the closest to reality to their pairing would be a adult guy with dwarfism and a normal adult sized guy. And there's really nothing wrong with that.

But that pairing isn't supported by anything in the series, while Lunch is, so they should just go ahead and give us some of that.

If that 26 year old has the size and looks of a 4,5 or 6 year old then yes.

You concern yourself way too much with what "looks right".

What if it Chaozu doesn't have dwarfism but has Syndrome X where he didn't grow up physically or mentally?

20 year old with mind and body of baby/toddler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2ehUOwjf1Y
9 year old like a new born, 29 year old boy, 31 year old toddler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUPZzJ6Pe64

That's a totally different issue. Nobody is debating whether or not Chiaotzu is mentally competent. He's (hypothetically) old enough to provide consent, is not being coerced, and is in his right mind. What else is needed?

[precita]

Just curious, were people expecting Chiaotzu to grow into an adult over the course of the show? Like most dub fans I started with DBZ first so my first exposure to Chiaotzu was the Saiyan saga.

But for Japanese fans who started with Dragonball and saw a young Chiaotzu, then the time skip with teenage Goku at the end of Dragonball, then another timeskip when DBZ started...and Chiaotzu was still little while everyone else grew up, was this considered surprising?

[TheQuazz]

Whenever a character isn't paired up with someone of the opposite gender, why does everyone assume that they're gay/asexual? Just because Tenshinhan isn't shown to be that interested in finding a girlfriend doesn't mean that isn't interested in women. I'm getting really tired of these stupid assumptions.

[DBZAOTA482]

Given Tien's abusive upbringing he probably doesn't deal well with emotions and Blonde Lunch isn't exactly the most subtle person.

[precita]

Whenever a character isn't paired up with someone of the opposite gender, why does everyone assume that they're gay/asexual? Just because Tenshinhan isn't shown to be that interested in finding a girlfriend doesn't mean that isn't interested in women. I'm getting really tired of these stupid assumptions.

Because we've now seen Tenshinhan over the span of about 20 years...and he never was paired up with someone. If the Dragonball franchise didn't have such timeskips where the series goes on for 20+ years of time, obviously people wouldn't think about it much.

20 years and Tenshinhan never winds up with anyone. Wasn't he a teenager when we first saw him in Dragonball? And now he's 40+ something in Super.