Kuririn wasn't dumb

[jplaya2023]

Yeah, Krillin knew Eighteen wasn't a murderer, whereas Vegeta was an evil dick at the time who by all rights deserved to die.

huh? 18 caused massive genocide in trunks timeline. They're the same being. The difference is android 16 quelled their killing spree. There was no evidence that 18 would've turned good had vegeta or trunks killed cell. She would've had to die anyway

[Dbzfan94]

Yeah, Krillin knew Eighteen wasn't a murderer, whereas Vegeta was an evil dick at the time who by all rights deserved to die.

huh? 18 caused massive genocide in trunks timeline. They're the same being. The difference is android 16 quelled their killing spree. There was no evidence that 18 would've turned good had vegeta or trunks killed cell. She would've had to die anyway

I disagree. From the beginning they only wanted to find Goku. If they were evil, they would have went on rampages in the meantime. It just came down to them not being as bad

[Naughty Kinto Un]

Wow, good topic!

Something that had never occurred to me before this thread:

Kuririn's decisions here are completely consistent with Goku and co's attitudes in the beginning of the arc. They objected to Bulma's suggestion of preemptively destroying the androids, the rationale being that the androids had yet to do anything evil in the main timeline. That was the gist of it, anyway; I actually don't have the volume on hand to confirm, and it'd be the Viz translation at that.

So, from their standpoint, this argument –

huh? 18 caused massive genocide in trunks timeline. They're the same being. The difference is android 16 quelled their killing spree. There was no evidence that 18 would've turned good had vegeta or trunks killed cell. She would've had to die anyway

– would be too circumstantial to morally justify #18's execution. Which reminds me, I'm long overdue for a Minority Report rewatch.

Interestingly enough, by advocating the kill switch strategy, Bulma is also being consistent in her principles.

[jplaya2023]

Wow, good topic!

Something that had never occurred to me before this thread:

Kuririn's decisions here are completely consistent with Goku and co's attitudes in the beginning of the arc. They objected to Bulma's suggestion of preemptively destroying the androids, the rationale being that the androids had yet to do anything evil in the main timeline. That was the gist of it, anyway; I actually don't have the volume on hand to confirm, and it'd be the Viz translation at that.

So, from their standpoint, this argument –

huh? 18 caused massive genocide in trunks timeline. They're the same being. The difference is android 16 quelled their killing spree. There was no evidence that 18 would've turned good had vegeta or trunks killed cell. She would've had to die anyway

– would be too circumstantial to morally justify #18's execution. Which reminds me, I'm long overdue for a Minority Report rewatch.

Interestingly enough, by advocating the kill switch strategy, Bulma is also being consistent in her principles.

the only reason krilian did not hit the switch is because of his "feelings" for the android. Had that been 16 or 17 he would have hit the switch ASAP. He let his personal feelings cloud his judgement. Goku just wants a good fight and a challenge, thats why he didn't want to kill them. Krilian was only thinking of himself not the world, and certainly not the greater good. At any moments the androids could've killed everyone but krilian wanted personal gain

[Lord Beerus]

If it comes to one individual vs the world, the world wins every single time. Vegeta is way worse than Krillin, but really I ain't so sure Krillin woulda done it if that were 17 there. Pretty sure he wouldn't.

Exactly. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was 17 that had the bomb in him, Krillin wouldn't have hesitated to do deactivate him.

[MaxZ]

It was dumb because he risked the lives of everyone on the planet for somone he barely knew, someone who to his knowledge was only going to go on and kill others on the planet as well. And I also don't get the flak again killing one person to save the lives of billions. It's bad to kill the one person, but damning everyone else's lives for the sake of that one person isn't?

you should always try and find another way. it's not some magical made up scenario where you know for certain that if you don't do x the world will for sure be destroyed. there's uncertainty to all actual scenarios. that's why you should never do something evil for 'the greater good', because there's always a possibility that there's another way to achieve that end.

There are fifty snipers with guns aimed straight at you. A man is standing in front of you with a hostage. He is demanding that you kill this hostage or he will launch a missile on your hometown. If you try to do anything but kill his hostage, or you wait for too long, he's gonna have the snipers shoot you and then launch the missile anyway. The only way he is going to spare you or your hometown is if you kill the hostage. Now, do you still think killing the hostage would be unacceptable in this situation?

What happened in the Cell saga really wasn't all that different; by not killing 18, Kuririn at best put countless lives at stage by enabling the most powerful creature ever to walk the earth to be born. A creature who, by the way, fully intended to kill everyone. Whom, at that point in time, none of our heroes were even close to steong enough to defeat.

that's not a real scenario, it's some phony contrived scenario that would never actually happen.

when Krillin got to 18, Vegeta was already pummelling Cell. it already looked like Cell was screwed. the blame for Cell absorbing her rests entirely on Vegeta for allowing it.


with what you're saying, you might as well tell me 18 was morally obligated to kill herself to stop Cell, that's just as absurd.

[dbzfan7]

If it comes to one individual vs the world, the world wins every single time. Vegeta is way worse than Krillin, but really I ain't so sure Krillin woulda done it if that were 17 there. Pretty sure he wouldn't.

Exactly. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was 17 that had the bomb in him, Krillin wouldn't have hesitated to do deactivate him.

I'd also like to remind that the alternative for 18 for not getting blown up, was get digested, which probably is a worse death. Still call bull she somehow survived it while brother didn't.

[MaxZ]

Yeah, Krillin knew Eighteen wasn't a murderer, whereas Vegeta was an evil dick at the time who by all rights deserved to die.

huh? 18 caused massive genocide in trunks timeline. They're the same being. The difference is android 16 quelled their killing spree. There was no evidence that 18 would've turned good had vegeta or trunks killed cell. She would've had to die anyway

the present androids are different. they weren't evil like the ones in the future. they didn't 'turn good', the future ones 'turned evil'. the present androids never killed a single person. they even went out of there way not to kill the Z fighters after Vegeta lost to 18.

[MaxZ]

If it comes to one individual vs the world, the world wins every single time. Vegeta is way worse than Krillin, but really I ain't so sure Krillin woulda done it if that were 17 there. Pretty sure he wouldn't.

Exactly. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was 17 that had the bomb in him, Krillin wouldn't have hesitated to do deactivate him.

I'd also like to remind that the alternative for 18 for not getting blown up, was get digested, which probably is a worse death. Still call bull she somehow survived it while brother didn't.

or the alternative was that she not get absorbed at all because Vegeta was already obliterating Cell in that fight, and she could still hide or run during that whole altercation.

17 did not die from being absorbed, he died when Cell self destructed.

[dbzfan7]

Exactly. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was 17 that had the bomb in him, Krillin wouldn't have hesitated to do deactivate him.

I'd also like to remind that the alternative for 18 for not getting blown up, was get digested, which probably is a worse death. Still call bull she somehow survived it while brother didn't.

or the alternative was that she not get absorbed at all because Vegeta was already obliterating Cell in that fight, and she could still hide or run during that whole altercation.

Or stopping one of the people who's out to kill Goku, while also preventing Armageddon with Cell is a pretty damn good idea. One person vs the World. The world wins EVERY...SINGLE....TIME. Anyone who thinks differently I never want to be in that spot, or they'd let a 7 billion casualty take place. It's damn clear in the story he would not have done that if it weren't 18. He had a crush on the Cyborg and let his feelings get in the way. The first thing he thinks of is it kissing him, and can't even muster up a response when asked why he didn't use the device. It was not out of nobility.

03 -
A romance with Artificial Human No. 18?!

Vol. 30 / Chp. 355
She suddenly kisses him on the cheek! Something sweet throbs in Kuririn's chest

Together with Goku, he fought the Artificial Humans that threatened the Earth's peace. Kuririn soon fell in love with Artificial Human No.18, and saves her life. They then marry and their daughter Marron is born.

17 woulda came out too if he was still there.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

I'm actually a bit surprised so many people are insisting Kuririn should have pressed the button. The Androids weren't monsters yet, but apparently should have been killed anyway. Seems "It's OK to kill people for the greater good" is an actual view a lot of people have.

[dbzfan7]

It was dumb because he risked the lives of everyone on the planet for somone he barely knew, someone who to his knowledge was only going to go on and kill others on the planet as well. And I also don't get the flak again killing one person to save the lives of billions. It's bad to kill the one person, but damning everyone else's lives for the sake of that one person isn't?

Funny how Infamous 2 had this choice but to the extreme. It was either use the RFI to kill yourself and every conduit, thus saving humanity, or doom humanity and save those with the conduit gene. Thousands of people die, but in turn millions live if you save humanity. Guess which option is the good ending. FYI tons of those conduits are either unknown or good people, so a lot of innocents still died.

[dangerouslover]

It wasn't dumb, it was a moral choice. I wouldn't say it was the right thing to do, it depends entirely on each person views. I agree with Kuririn's choice, killing an innocent person to save others doesn't work for me.

Goku wouldn't have done it either, so I don't know what people are complaining about. Also, Android 18 is strong enough to take out Super Saiyans... she's not exactly weak, and adds another layer of defence essentially.

[Majin Jator]

After all the development of Kuririn we've seen, why do people still think he would make a decision that might doom his friends purely for the sake of sex?

Because some people have this weird mindset about "what men are all like," an example of which has conveniently been posted right here in this thread already. I'll quote it, with some extra bits trimmed out just to make my point clearer:

Or maybe because there was a flashback of C18 kissing Krillin before he decided not to blow her. IIRC he also thought something along the lines "she hasn't done anything evil yet", but after that it felt like a self-justification.

[Xeztin]

If it comes to one individual vs the world, the world wins every single time. Vegeta is way worse than Krillin, but really I ain't so sure Krillin woulda done it if that were 17 there. Pretty sure he wouldn't.

Exactly. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was 17 that had the bomb in him, Krillin wouldn't have hesitated to do deactivate him.

Pretty much this, if 18 never kissed Kuririn and he never developed a crush on her he'd have hit the switch. His personal emotions got in the way and it helped Cell reach his perfect form. Vegeta's pride and Kuririn's crush almost caused the end for all of them and even humanity itself. Also if Cell never existed, she'd more than likely would have ended up killing Goku (or trying) anyways. She became the innocent one for Kuririn when she became the hunted instead of the hunter.

[Lord Beerus]

If it comes to one individual vs the world, the world wins every single time. Vegeta is way worse than Krillin, but really I ain't so sure Krillin woulda done it if that were 17 there. Pretty sure he wouldn't.

Exactly. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was 17 that had the bomb in him, Krillin wouldn't have hesitated to do deactivate him.

Pretty much this, if 18 never kissed Kuririn and he never developed a crush on her he'd have hit the switch. His personal emotions got in the way and it helped Cell reach his perfect form. Vegeta's pride and Kuririn's crush almost caused the end for all of them and even humanity itself. Also if Cell never existed, she'd more than likely would have ended up killing Goku (or trying) anyways. She became the innocent one for Kuririn when she became the hunted instead of the hunter.

As CinemaSins would say: The power of boners is stronger.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

If it comes to one individual vs the world, the world wins every single time. Vegeta is way worse than Krillin, but really I ain't so sure Krillin woulda done it if that were 17 there. Pretty sure he wouldn't.

Exactly. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was 17 that had the bomb in him, Krillin wouldn't have hesitated to do deactivate him.

Pretty much this, if 18 never kissed Kuririn and he never developed a crush on her he'd have hit the switch. His personal emotions got in the way and it helped Cell reach his perfect form. Vegeta's pride and Kuririn's crush almost caused the end for all of them and even humanity itself. Also if Cell never existed, she'd more than likely would have ended up killing Goku (or trying) anyways. She became the innocent one for Kuririn when she became the hunted instead of the hunter.

Vegeta; yes. But Kuririn didn't cause Cell to absorb 18, he prevented someone (who actually did turn out pretty good) from dying. His feeling didn't "get in the way", they let him see the good in the Androids.

[MaxZ]

I'd also like to remind that the alternative for 18 for not getting blown up, was get digested, which probably is a worse death. Still call bull she somehow survived it while brother didn't.

or the alternative was that she not get absorbed at all because Vegeta was already obliterating Cell in that fight, and she could still hide or run during that whole altercation.

Or stopping one of the people who's out to kill Goku, while also preventing Armageddon with Cell is a pretty damn good idea. One person vs the World. The world wins EVERY...SINGLE....TIME. Anyone who thinks differently I never want to be in that spot, or they'd let a 7 billion casualty take place. It's damn clear in the story he would not have done that if it weren't 18. He had a crush on the Cyborg and let his feelings get in the way. The first thing he thinks of is it kissing him, and can't even muster up a response when asked why he didn't use the device. It was not out of nobility.

she wasn't trying to kill Goku anymore (if she ever was at all), that was nothing but a dumb game 17 wanted to play. it was probably the very last thing on her mind at the time.

and like I already said, at the time Krillin smashed the remote, Vegeta already had Cell taken care of.

100% of the blame is on Vegeta.


in perfect honestly, I'm not certain Krillin would have used the remote on a terrified cowering 17 either. he's a noble honourable character.

even Trunks did not destroy 18 when he had the opportunity to do so after Cell spotted her.

[dbzfan7]

or the alternative was that she not get absorbed at all because Vegeta was already obliterating Cell in that fight, and she could still hide or run during that whole altercation.

Or stopping one of the people who's out to kill Goku, while also preventing Armageddon with Cell is a pretty damn good idea. One person vs the World. The world wins EVERY...SINGLE....TIME. Anyone who thinks differently I never want to be in that spot, or they'd let a 7 billion casualty take place. It's damn clear in the story he would not have done that if it weren't 18. He had a crush on the Cyborg and let his feelings get in the way. The first thing he thinks of is it kissing him, and can't even muster up a response when asked why he didn't use the device. It was not out of nobility.

she wasn't trying to kill Goku anymore (if she ever was at all), that was nothing but a dumb game 17 wanted to play. it was probably the very last thing on her mind at the time.

and like I already said, at the time Krillin smashed the remote, Vegeta already had Cell taken care of.

100% of the blame is on Vegeta.


in perfect honestly, I'm not certain Krillin would have used the remote on a terrified cowering 17 either. he's a noble honourable character.

even Trunks did not destroy 18 when he had the opportunity to do so after Cell spotted her.

What was literally the first thing she was going to do before Cell showed up. KILL GOKU! She only stopped because Cell showed up. She had no intention of not killing Goku til a bigger threat forced her into hiding. They were going to beat the shit out of everyone if they didn't talk at Kame House, and also threatened to kill Piccolo if he didn't talk. Nowhere does 18 give a shit about any of that or having second thoughts. She was in it to kill Goku.

He shouldn't have smashed the remote at all. There is no telling what she may or may not do. He let his crush get in the way of his judgement. If that were 17 there and not 18, he would not have done that shit. Even the guidebooks support he did it because he fell in love with 18, and not because he was being noble.We all know Vegeta is at the worst fault, but Krillin is also hugely in the wrong. Hell he could wish her back later if he really wanted to afterwards. Killing her then would have been the smartest thing. Even Piccolo knew this shit when he told Evil Boo to go kill all the humans. They could not only be wished back, but if they die now, the humans could be saved later via a wish. Sometimes sacrifices for the greater good must be made. Especially in Dragon Ball where death isn't even much of a consequence at all.

[Zephyr]

at the time Krillin smashed the remote, Vegeta already had Cell taken care of.

Krillin's an idiot for trusting Vegeta then.