Kuririn wasn't dumb

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

revive her later once the Dragon Balls were restored.

The Dragonballs are basically a moral cop-out, huh? We can also say they could revive all the people Cell killed after his defeat anyway, which is of course what actually happened.

[dbzfan7]

Fortunantly for both of us, I highly doubt a situation that extreme will happen. And I don't think Kuririn's was that extreme either. He wasn't dooming millions, he was saving one (or 2 if 16 counts). Cell and Vegeta get all the blame here.

He did. He put his trust in a guy who never does anything for anyone but himself. Because Vegeta is a trust worthy guy. Vegeta. The guy who killed a random person because he got in the way of a fight. Yeah, real smart Krillin. A guy who already has shown he'd let his own family die without a care in the world. THAT is the guy Krillin thinks would do the right thing. Cell is a guy who would kill all life, and even more life in the universe once he was done with earth. So hell 7 billion is actually minuscule to the amount of lives Cell threatened, because Krillin wouldn't push a damn button and revive her later once the Dragon Balls were restored. He puts faith in a one of the most evil vile people he's met to stop Cell, and then won't push a button to temporarily stop a girl who could be brought back to life anyways. No Krillin is a piece of shit.

why would Krillin ever think Vegeta wouldn't kill Cell? he's Vegeta, the guy who loves fighting and killing people. Vegeta would take great pleasure in killing Cell.

Because Vegeta wants to prove he's the best. He already showed he'd do this when he refused anyone to stop the Cyborgs from being turned on. He showed once he went Super Saiyan his ego went into overdrive and he wouldn't take a lesser foe for an answer. This is his third time doing it. First with Freeza where he tells him to transform, second with the Cyborgs where he'll kill anyone who tries to prevent their activation, and Cell being the third time. Vegeta loves killing people, but he loves proving he is the best even more than that. They are aware that Cell has a perfect form, so what gave Krillin the idea that Vegeta wouldn't dare want to fight that? He already wanted to fight the Cyborgs prophesied to kill him, and didn't at all regret the choice. What makes another super powerful foe something Vegeta would suddenly turn down now? What made Krillin think "Yeah Vegeta wouldn't want to take on Cell's perfect form." The guy who always makes bad decisions. The guy who didn't give a shit when his family was gonna die. Vegeta fucks them over all the time, and now suddenly he wouldn't?

revive her later once the Dragon Balls were restored.

The Dragonballs are basically a moral cop-out, huh? We can also say they could revive all the people Cell killed after his defeat anyway, which is of course what actually happened.

Exactly. Killing Cell in second form is far easier than Perfect. There was no guarantee they could even beat Perfect Cell, and it looked almost hopeless. They knew they could beat second form, but had no way of knowing they could handle Perfect. Even then it took extreme's and dumb circumstance that they could pull off a victory. Any other scenario and Cell would have won. There'd also be less of a casualty by just getting rid of 18. Even then she and 17 nearly killed everyone if not for Senzu's. Were on a mission to kill Goku. Had no intention of changing that course til a bigger threat forced a change. Putting trust into the guy who fucks them over all the time is just the icing on the stupid cake.

[MaxZ]

Because Vegeta wants to prove he's the best. He already showed he'd do this when he refused anyone to stop the Cyborgs from being turned on. He showed once he went Super Saiyan his ego went into overdrive and he wouldn't take a lesser foe for an answer. This is his third time doing it. First with Freeza where he tells him to transform, second with the Cyborgs where he'll kill anyone who tries to prevent their activation, and Cell being the third time. Vegeta loves killing people, but he loves proving he is the best even more than that. They are aware that Cell has a perfect form, so what gave Krillin the idea that Vegeta wouldn't dare want to fight that? He already wanted to fight the Cyborgs prophesied to kill him, and didn't at all regret the choice. What makes another super powerful foe something Vegeta would suddenly turn down now? What made Krillin think "Yeah Vegeta wouldn't want to take on Cell's perfect form." The guy who always makes bad decisions. The guy who didn't give a shit when his family was gonna die.

as if Krillin was thinking of complex what if scenarios like that in the heat of such a tense moment. not even Trunks thought Vegeta would do something like that. even Vegeta took some convincing, at first he scoffed at the idea and called Cell a baby.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Because Vegeta wants to prove he's the best. He already showed he'd do this when he refused anyone to stop the Cyborgs from being turned on. He showed once he went Super Saiyan his ego went into overdrive and he wouldn't take a lesser foe for an answer. This is his third time doing it. First with Freeza where he tells him to transform, second with the Cyborgs where he'll kill anyone who tries to prevent their activation, and Cell being the third time. Vegeta loves killing people, but he loves proving he is the best even more than that. They are aware that Cell has a perfect form, so what gave Krillin the idea that Vegeta wouldn't dare want to fight that? He already wanted to fight the Cyborgs prophesied to kill him, and didn't at all regret the choice. What makes another super powerful foe something Vegeta would suddenly turn down now? What made Krillin think "Yeah Vegeta wouldn't want to take on Cell's perfect form." The guy who always makes bad decisions. The guy who didn't give a shit when his family was gonna die.

"Sorry, 18. Cell is evil, but my companion sucks too. I wish he weren't so prideful so I wouldn't have to kill you but... we're all jerks so screw you. BOOM"
That sound right to you?

[MaxZ]

he coulda even done something like blasted a hole in that cliff for the androids to hide in, and then claimed to have destroyed 18 with the remote.

he didn't have to kill her, period.

[dbzfan7]

Because Vegeta wants to prove he's the best. He already showed he'd do this when he refused anyone to stop the Cyborgs from being turned on. He showed once he went Super Saiyan his ego went into overdrive and he wouldn't take a lesser foe for an answer. This is his third time doing it. First with Freeza where he tells him to transform, second with the Cyborgs where he'll kill anyone who tries to prevent their activation, and Cell being the third time. Vegeta loves killing people, but he loves proving he is the best even more than that. They are aware that Cell has a perfect form, so what gave Krillin the idea that Vegeta wouldn't dare want to fight that? He already wanted to fight the Cyborgs prophesied to kill him, and didn't at all regret the choice. What makes another super powerful foe something Vegeta would suddenly turn down now? What made Krillin think "Yeah Vegeta wouldn't want to take on Cell's perfect form." The guy who always makes bad decisions. The guy who didn't give a shit when his family was gonna die.

as if Krillin was thinking of complex what if scenarios like that in the heat of such a tense moment. not even Trunks thought Vegeta would do something like that. even Vegeta took some convincing, at first he scoffed at the idea and called Cell a baby.

Trunks doesn't know Vegeta very well. Krillin has seen what he has done time and time again. It's not even complex, it's common sense. Krillin is completely stupid for thinking Vegeta would suddenly do the right thing, when he has never once done the right thing before that. The only right he has done, is only because it allowed an interesting fight, and not because he gives a shit about anyone. Krillin instead of just having 18 be wished back, decided all the men, women, and children could take a back seat to his crush. None of them matter. Babies. Screw em. Children screw em. That one chick who kissed him and wants to kill Goku, hell yeah she's a goodie.

Because Vegeta wants to prove he's the best. He already showed he'd do this when he refused anyone to stop the Cyborgs from being turned on. He showed once he went Super Saiyan his ego went into overdrive and he wouldn't take a lesser foe for an answer. This is his third time doing it. First with Freeza where he tells him to transform, second with the Cyborgs where he'll kill anyone who tries to prevent their activation, and Cell being the third time. Vegeta loves killing people, but he loves proving he is the best even more than that. They are aware that Cell has a perfect form, so what gave Krillin the idea that Vegeta wouldn't dare want to fight that? He already wanted to fight the Cyborgs prophesied to kill him, and didn't at all regret the choice. What makes another super powerful foe something Vegeta would suddenly turn down now? What made Krillin think "Yeah Vegeta wouldn't want to take on Cell's perfect form." The guy who always makes bad decisions. The guy who didn't give a shit when his family was gonna die.

"Sorry, 18. Cell is evil, but my companion sucks too. I wish he weren't so prideful so I wouldn't have to kill you but... we're all jerks so screw you. BOOM"
That sound right to you?

No it's more like no explanation needed, push the fucking button, world saved. Simple as that. He wasn't even supposed to say anything. A lot better then "You kissed me that one time, fuck my friends and the planet."

"Hey Krillin why did you break my remote"
"Cause that Cyborg was hot n shit. Totally worth it. Beat my friends to near death, wants to kill my best friend, but that ass yo."

[Akyon]

Firstly; thank you for bringing this topic up.

It's always annoyed me no end that people suggest "hur dur, he only saved her because he wanted to bang her".

Bull. Shit.

18 AND 17 both had the perfect opportunity to kill all the Z fighters during the initial meet up. When Trunks broke the terms of the rules and rushed in forcing Piccolo and Tenshinhan to get involved too, these so called 'evil' androids didn't attempt to kill a single one of the Z fighters.
Not one, despite the fact they were "super evil" and confirmed a lot stronger than in Trunks' future. 17 suggested to Krillin to give them all Senzu beans to allow them to heal up after he was the only person left. 18 wished him luck, and then they just walked off. Hell, 18 didn't even kill anyone during her scrap with Vegeta, unlike the saiyan.

This is the same guy who risked his life numerous times during the Saiyan and Namek arcs to keep Gohan safe.
This is the same guy who saved Dende from being impaled on Namek by Frieza, even though he had every opportunity to get out the way had he not cared to save him.
This is the guy who helped recover Android 16, someone who actually DID state he wanted to kill Goku, but was otherwise incredibly peaceful and took him to Bulma.
Hell, he wished for the bombs to be removed from both 18 and 17, even though he thought they were a couple. There is no benefit to him to do this at this point.

Krillin is by far one of the most moral characters in the show, risking his life countless times not for fighting glory or pride, but to save other individuals. Like the way he saved Gohan, like the way he saved Dende, like the way he saved 16. Krillin simply doesn't try to kill things unless they prove themselves willing to murder innocents...and 18(and 17) did not.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

No it's more like no explanation needed, push the fucking button, world saved. Simple as that. He wasn't even supposed to say anything. A lot better then "You kissed me that one time, fuck my friends and the planet."

"Hey Krillin why did you break my remote"
"Cause that Cyborg was hot n shit. Totally worth it. Beat my friends to near death, wants to kill my best friend, but that ass yo."

And, you know, mercy and stuff. Some people list it a virtue. But now I know that ethics is actually just equations.

[MaxZ]

Not even Piccolo wanted to just outright murder them. During their fight, he even gave 17 the opportunity to surrender early on. And he teamed up with 17 when Cell arrived, when he coulda just aimed that light grenade at 17.

Trunks didn't didn't do it either. He coulda killed 18 after Cell spotted her too, and he also didn't do it.

Trunks, Krillin, and Piccolo are all heroes. Tien as well. They're not murderers.

[dbzfan7]

No it's more like no explanation needed, push the fucking button, world saved. Simple as that. He wasn't even supposed to say anything. A lot better then "You kissed me that one time, fuck my friends and the planet."

"Hey Krillin why did you break my remote"
"Cause that Cyborg was hot n shit. Totally worth it. Beat my friends to near death, wants to kill my best friend, but that ass yo."

And, you know, mercy and stuff. Some people list it a virtue. But know I now that ethics is actually just equations.

Yeah I'll remember to show that compassion to someone who wants to kill my best friend for funsies, but only stopped cause a bigger monster threatened them.

[MaxZ]

This is the guy who helped recover Android 16, someone who actually DID state he wanted to kill Goku, but was otherwise incredibly peaceful and took him to Bulma.

another strong point here

Krillin saves 16 as well, he didn't have a crush on 16 did he? no.

he wouldn't have pressed the button if it was 17 or 16 either. it's not in his nature, Krillin isn't a person who can just kill someone in cold blood.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Krillin is by far one of the most moral characters in the show, risking his life countless times not for fighting glory or pride, but to save other individuals. Like the way he saved Gohan, like the way he saved Dende, like the way he saved 16. Krillin simply doesn't try to kill things unless they prove themselves willing to murder innocents...and 18(and 17) did not.

I think the Kinto'un got it wrong: Gokuu should've been the one to fall through.

[MaxZ]

Yeah I'll remember to show that compassion to someone who wants to kill my best friend for funsies, but only stopped cause a bigger monster threatened them.

there's zero evidence the androids were going to follow through with their threats other than that the future androids killed people. but the future androids were entirely different.

they did not take it seriously at all, it was literally a game to them. 18 was only tagging along with it because it was what 17 wanted to do. it was an empty threat, just like their threat to kill anyone that interfered with 18's fight with Vegeta.

[dbzfan7]

Yeah I'll remember to show that compassion to someone who wants to kill my best friend for funsies, but only stopped cause a bigger monster threatened them.

there's zero evidence the androids were going to follow through with their threats other than that the future androids killed people. but the future androids were entirely different.

they did not take it seriously at all, it was literally a game to them. 18 was only tagging along with it because it was what 17 wanted to do. it was an empty threat, just like their threat to kill anyone that interfered with 18's fight with Vegeta.

It was their entire motivation. They weren't going to just find Goku and then stop. NOTHING says they'd do that. They nearly killed everyone had it not been for a senzu, which 17 says so. They were left in critical condition. Then were going to kill Piccolo, which 17 said he'd do. Piccolo was going to kill them one on one which he said was his plan. Then everything changed once Cell appeared. There was no empty threat. They were not just going to find Goku, and then do nothing. 16 most of all was going to kill Goku. None of them gave a shit about him wanting to either. If Cell never existed, they would go on to find Goku and kill him. 18 would join 17 to kill Piccolo if 17 came close to dying, and they'd move on. They only let them live because they wanted something to fight after Goku. Hell if there was no Cell and once they killed Goku, they likely would have turned out the same.

If it was so true they were talking empty promises, then why bother with the charades at all? Because they weren't empty threats. That's why even after merging with God, and learning everything, Piccolo still knew keeping Goku away from them was the best thing to do. 17 even says after they kill Goku they'll figure out something to do. Likely in the future with Goku dead, genocide was what they came up with.

[MaxZ]

Yeah I'll remember to show that compassion to someone who wants to kill my best friend for funsies, but only stopped cause a bigger monster threatened them.

there's zero evidence the androids were going to follow through with their threats other than that the future androids killed people. but the future androids were entirely different.

they did not take it seriously at all, it was literally a game to them. 18 was only tagging along with it because it was what 17 wanted to do. it was an empty threat, just like their threat to kill anyone that interfered with 18's fight with Vegeta.

It was their entire motivation. They weren't going to just find Goku and then stop. NOTHING says they'd do that. They nearly killed everyone had it not been for a senzu, which 17 says so. They were left in critical condition. Then were going to kill Piccolo, which 17 said he'd do. Piccolo was going to kill them one on one which he said was his plan. Then everything changed once Cell appeared. There was no empty threat. They were not just going to find Goku, and then do nothing. 16 most of all was going to kill Goku. None of them gave a shit about him wanting to either. If Cell never existed, they would go on to find Goku and kill him. 18 would join 17 to kill Piccolo if 17 came close to dying, and they'd move on. They only let them live because they wanted something to fight after Goku. Hell if there was no Cell and once they killed Goku, they likely would have turned out the same.

If it was so true they were talking empty promises, then why bother with the charades at all? Because they weren't empty threats. That's why even after merging with God, and learning everything, Piccolo still knew keeping Goku away from them was the best thing to do.

Obviously they wouldn't just do nothing when they found Goku, they'd fight him and probably leave him beaten like Vegeta. Or in this case, they actually probably would do nothing since Goku was sick, and they would want to fight him so they'd probably let him recover.

They hated Doctor Gero for what he did to them. Why would they want to fulfill his design? Even if they did want to kill Goku, by the time they found him, 16 probably would have changed his mind anyway and stopped them because of his love for peace and nature.

[dbzfan7]

there's zero evidence the androids were going to follow through with their threats other than that the future androids killed people. but the future androids were entirely different.

they did not take it seriously at all, it was literally a game to them. 18 was only tagging along with it because it was what 17 wanted to do. it was an empty threat, just like their threat to kill anyone that interfered with 18's fight with Vegeta.

It was their entire motivation. They weren't going to just find Goku and then stop. NOTHING says they'd do that. They nearly killed everyone had it not been for a senzu, which 17 says so. They were left in critical condition. Then were going to kill Piccolo, which 17 said he'd do. Piccolo was going to kill them one on one which he said was his plan. Then everything changed once Cell appeared. There was no empty threat. They were not just going to find Goku, and then do nothing. 16 most of all was going to kill Goku. None of them gave a shit about him wanting to either. If Cell never existed, they would go on to find Goku and kill him. 18 would join 17 to kill Piccolo if 17 came close to dying, and they'd move on. They only let them live because they wanted something to fight after Goku. Hell if there was no Cell and once they killed Goku, they likely would have turned out the same.

If it was so true they were talking empty promises, then why bother with the charades at all? Because they weren't empty threats. That's why even after merging with God, and learning everything, Piccolo still knew keeping Goku away from them was the best thing to do.

Obviously they wouldn't just do nothing when they found Goku, they'd fight him and probably leave him beaten like Vegeta. Or in this case, they actually probably would do nothing since Goku was sick, and they would want to fight him so they'd probably let him recover.

They hated Doctor Gero for what he did to them. Why would they want to fulfill his design? Even if they did want to kill Goku, by the time they found him, 16 probably would have changed his mind anyway and stopped them because of his love for peace and nature.

Literally the very first and only thing 16 says to Goku is "I was built to kill you, don't you forget that." Because that's what you say when you have no intention of still doing that. He's not even happy to see Goku. He was programmed to kill him, and still wants to do that even after getting help. He doesn't apologize. He doesn't say anything peaceful. 16 likely wouldn't go on a rampage, but he still wanted to fulfill his programming. If he was over that he'd say "I no longer wish to kill you Son Goku." Yet he never says anything like that. Why wouldn't he want Goku to put that idea behind him if he still didn't think of doing it?

They said why, because it's fun. Not because of Gero, but because it's fun. 17 and Krillin explain this when Krillin literally brings up what you just said. They do it because of purpose. It gives them something to do. It's likely that's why the future cyborgs were so bad. Goku was already dead by the time they were turned on, so their only purpose in life was gone. 17 says "After we kill Goku we'll figure out something else after that." It's likely they'd end up doing the same thing until someone could forcibly stop them. If there's no strong people to fight, which is what happened in the future, it's likely we'd get the same outcome.

Another thing is Vegeta literally said they should let Cell become perfect even before powering up himself. Everyone just suddenly pretends he didn't just say let Cell absorb them? Piccolo telling Vegeta he's too weak isn't going to suddenly change his mind and make him change his thought process. The writing was on the wall already of what Vegeta would do.

[Majin Jator]

So...Krillin didn't let his feelings interfere at all. He spare C18 because she hadn't done anything wrong yet; and him, a noble and moral goody-two-shoes, decided that it wasn't right to take her life only to save millions.
But he killed Cell when he was a fetus because it was the right thing to do. Ok...


Look, I like Krillin. With his flaws. Characters in DB are not goody-two-shoes superheroes, they're selfiss and reckless, and that's ok. There's no need to portray Krillin as Superman just to like him .

[dbzfan7]

So...Krillin didn't let his feelings interfere at all. He spare C18 because she hadn't done anything wrong yet; and him, a noble and moral goody-two-shoes, decided that it wasn't right to take her life only to save millions.
But he killed Cell when he was a fetus because it was the right thing to do. Ok...


Look, I like Krillin. With his flaws. Characters in DB are not goody-two-shoes superheroes, they're selfiss and reckless, and that's ok. There's no need to portray Krillin as Superman just to like him .

That bastard. He killed an innocent fetus who did nothing wrong. Why couldn't they reprogram and save that poor fetus that hasn't done anything evil. It's only doing what the mean old computer was telling it to do. Now if only if that fetus gave Krillin a kissy. Then it might deserve to be saved. But no it's ugly n shit and deserves to die. Hey this Cell coulda been good too and be different from his future self. He coulda only attempted to kill Goku before stronger people stopped him.

[MaxZ]

Literally the very first and only thing 16 says to Goku is "I was built to kill you, don't you forget that." Because that's what you say when you have no intention of still doing that. He's not even happy to see Goku. He was programmed to kill him, and still wants to do that even after getting help. He doesn't apologize. He doesn't say anything peaceful. 16 likely wouldn't go on a rampage, but he still wanted to fulfill his programming. If he was over that he'd say "I no longer wish to kill you Son Goku." Yet he never says anything like that. Why wouldn't he want Goku to put that idea behind him if he still didn't think of doing it?

16 says to Goku "I was programmed to kill you, though I have decided not to." unless the translation was incorrect, that's how I remember it.

They said why, because it's fun. Not because of Gero, but because it's fun. 17 and Krillin explain this when Krillin literally brings up what you just said. They do it because of purpose. It gives them something to do. It's likely that's why the future cyborgs were so bad. Goku was already dead by the time they were turned on, so their only purpose in life was gone. 17 says "After we kill Goku we'll figure out something else after that." It's likely they'd end up doing the same thing until someone could forcibly stop them. If there's no strong people to fight, which is what happened in the future, it's likely we'd get the same outcome.

I simply disagree. I don't see the present androids ever going down the same genocidal path they did in the future. They were intrinsically different.

[dbzfan7]

16 says to Goku "I was programmed to ki ... member it.

I got my manga next to me and have been directly quoting from it. Could be different perhaps.

I simply disagree. I don't see the present androids ever going down the same genocidal path they did in the future. They were intrinsically different.

By circumstance. Let me put it this way. God had seen everything they have done. God had been watching everything. God even says they don't appear as bad. Piccolo merged with God. Piccolo still plans to kill them both anyways. Even with the wisdom of God, and being aware of what they have been doing, killing them is still the conclusion Piccolo comes to.

16's bio from D7

The strongest artificial human besides Cell. However, he has a gentle heart, and doesn't like to hurt things. Because of this, Doctor Gero regarded him as a failed creation. He gives the impression of a taciturn, silent giant. He resembles No. 8 in his gentleness, but is forever faithful to his duty to kill Goku.

Also as posted above. They killed fetus Cell with no remorse even though it has yet to do jack shit, and probably could be altered before it's born several years down the line. A baby fetus that hasn't done anything and is still only in the programming stages which could be altered, but nah kill it. Gero. Yeah he hasn't done anything let's not kill him even though he's partly behind the Red Ribbon Army. Cyborgs who wish to kill Goku, nah they cool. A fetus baby who has yet to literally do anything and could be reprogrammed, kill that evil son of a bitch.