Kuririn wasn't dumb

[MaxZ]

By circumstance. Let me put it this way. God had seen everything they have done. God had been watching everything. God even says they don't appear as bad. Piccolo merged with God. Piccolo still plans to kill them both anyways. Even with the wisdom of God, and being aware of what they have been doing, killing them is still the conclusion Piccolo comes to.

as I mentioned earlier, early on in the fight Piccolo gives 17 a chance to surrender. Piccolo was willing to spare him if he gave up and surrendered.

Also as posted above. They killed fetus Cell with no remorse even though it has yet to do jack shit, and probably could be altered before it's born several years down the line. A baby fetus that hasn't done anything and is still only in the programming stages which could be altered, but nah kill it. Gero. Yeah he hasn't done anything let's not kill him even though he's partly behind the Red Ribbon Army. Cyborgs who wish to kill Goku, nah they cool. A fetus baby who has yet to literally do anything and could be reprogrammed, kill that evil son of a bitch.

Cell is an evil monster, his DNA is programmed to the core with evil. Nothing can change that.

[dbzfan7]

as I mentioned earlier, early on in the fight Piccolo gives 17 a chance to surrender. Piccolo was willing to spare him if he gave up and surrendered.

Piccolo literally said his plan is to kill 17. I literally looked up the entire fight in the manga. NOWHERE does he say that. His entire plan is to kill 17 so Cell can't be Perfect and then kill the others one by one. He even says 17 plans to kill Goku, which 17 does not deny. It literally goes against everything Piccolo was trying to accomplish if he let them walk. The ENTIRE point was to kill them so Cell can't become perfect.

Also as shown in the D7 Book bio, 16 would forever follow his mission to kill Goku. So even they acknowledge he still would try to kill him anyways.

Cell is an evil monster, his DNA is programmed to the core with evil. Nothing can change that.

Programmed exactly. Which can be changed. He was being programmed at that very moment. He was in the very early stages. Nothing says they couldn't just reprogram him in his early larval stages. Dr. Gero was part of the Red Ribbon Army, and already was responsible for death and misery. He's already worse than Cell is before being born, yet still is allowed to live anyways. His DNA isn't evil, it's the computer's programming.

[MaxZ]

Piccolo literally said his plan is to kill 17. I literally looked up the entire fight in the manga. NOWHERE does he say that. His entire plan is to kill 17 so Cell can't be Perfect and then kill the others one by one. He even says 17 plans to kill Goku, which 17 does not deny. It literally goes against everything Piccolo was trying to accomplish if he let them walk. The ENTIRE point was to kill them so Cell can't become perfect.

Does Piccolo not ever say "stay down" to 17 in the manga? He does in the anime. If this line is not in the manga then I concede this point. I really need to finish reading it.

Programmed exactly. Which can be changed. He was being programmed at that very moment. He was in the very early stages. Nothing says they couldn't just reprogram him in his early larval stages. Dr. Gero was part of the Red Ribbon Army, and already was responsible for death and misery. He's already worse than Cell is before being born, yet still is allowed to live anyways. His DNA isn't evil, it's the computer's programming.

Cell isn't a machine, he's an organism. His DNA is his programming, and it's already set. DNA can't be reprogrammed at that stage.

[dbzfan7]

Does Piccolo not ever say "stay down" to 17 in the manga? He does in the anime. If this line is not in the manga then I concede this point. I really need to finish reading it.

No. He points his hand down and fires a blast. Never says such a thing. There is no dialogue. All the wisdom of God. God has literally seen everything they have done. Piccolo has all of Gods knowledge as he has watched the Cyborgs. Piccolo is a full on good guy at this time. Killing them is still what Piccolo decides to do. He's seen them not needlessly kill, and never once talks them out of things. If the wisdom of God himself still shows killing them is the best option, I don't know how much more concrete you can get. For the greater good, even after seeing everything God has shown him, Piccolo decides killing them is the best option. Seriously Piccolo knows them better than everyone else, and he doesn't see them at all as innocent. Wisdom of God doesn't see them as innocent.

Just to reiterate on how 16 still would murder Goku

The strongest artificial human besides Cell. However, he has a gentle heart, and doesn't like to hurt things. Because of this, Doctor Gero regarded him as a failed creation. He gives the impression of a taciturn, silent giant. He resembles No. 8 in his gentleness, but is forever faithful to his duty to kill Goku.

Cell isn't a machine, he's an organism. His DNA is his programming, and it's already set. DNA can't be reprogrammed at that stage.

Even after the loss of its master Doctor Gero, the computer endlessly continued the research for Cell in the laboratory's basement.

He is an artificial life form. Even currently they were still gathering data so Cell wasn't even that far along in his creation process, which Cell points out. The computer was still working on intel, and so he could be altered. It's only in the research and data stage. There is no better time. Yet none of that mattered at all, because for the greater good, it's better to just kill Cell then take the chance. Because why take the risk? Piccolo followed that same thing with full knowledge of the Cyborgs and their activities.

As I pointed out with support from official guides, 16 would still try and kill Goku. 17 and 18 still wanted to kill Goku. They had no intention of quitting that task til they succeeded. 16 wasn't going to stop so it's unlikely they would too. They make it clear it's their goal, and nothing else matters to them. It's why they didn't kill the others, even though they actually nearly did if not for senzu's. Even as Piccolo and 17 are deadlocked in a battle, 17 reaffirms it's their goal. If Piccolo were to succeed and come close to killing 17, then likely 18 would jump in to save him, and they'd kill Piccolo likely as he'd be a big threat to them if left alone.

And another thing the button doesn't even kill them. So even then pushing the button isn't a big deal. So either they have to be activated during absorption or potentially destroyed after shut down.

04 ~ Artificial Human Emergency Deactivation Controller
A deactivation controller that Bulma made based on the blueprints for Doctor Gero's artificial humans. It is used for Artificial Humans No. 17 and No. 18. When the bottom in the center is pressed, it shuts down the artificial humans' movement.

[Zephyr]

Organisms can be environmentally conditioned.

[Vegard Aune]

that's not a real scenario, it's some phony contrived scenario that would never actually happen.

when Krillin got to 18, Vegeta was already pummelling Cell. it already looked like Cell was screwed. the blame for Cell absorbing her rests entirely on Vegeta for allowing it.


with what you're saying, you might as well tell me 18 was morally obligated to kill herself to stop Cell, that's just as absurd.

Way to completely disregard the point. Yes, that particular scenario was just the most extreme "No win" scenario I could come up with there and then and it's highly unlikely (though not actually impossible... All it takes is a sufficiently crazy person) that anyone would ever end up in that situation... But the point was, sometimes there are no perfect solutions. Is Piccolo completely irredeemably evil again because he told Boo to go kill everyone on Earth in order to buy Goten and Trunks more time to become strong enough to kill Boo? I mean, taken at face-value that is an absolutely horrible thing to do, even if he fully intended to revive everyone later... but what other choice did he have, exactly? Point is, "Look for an option by which to save everyone" isn't always possible. And in Kuririn's case... yeah someone was dying regardless of what he did. I'm not saying that Kuririn was necessarily wrong for doing what he did... But he did put basically the entire universe in serious danger that could potentially have been averted if he'd pressed that button.

[Majin Jator]

His DNA is his programming, and it's already set. DNA can't be reprogrammed at that stage.

Do we know that for sure? No, you're making up that to justify a double standard.
We don't know for sure if Bulma could be able to reprogram Cell, neither. Maybe she couldn't. But we know for sure that they didn't even tried. There was no hurry to destroy Cell (unlike in the C18 situation), they had years to figure out a way to make him good, or decide if that was impossible.
But they just blow him up, because neither Trunks or Krillin had the hots for Cell.

[Hitiro]

Cell isn't a machine, he's an organism. His DNA is his programming, and it's already set. DNA can't be reprogrammed at that stage.

I'd like to point out that in the anime, at least, Cell was taught to kill Goku via a computer through suggestion. It wasn't programmed into him in the traditional sense. He was persuaded to kill Goku by the machine while he slept during his creation process. Like how people people listen to tapes while they sleep to make themselves feel better about themselves and such.

Cell literally tells us that the machine was talking to him in his creators voice, telling him to absorb the Androids and kill Goku. Also, DNA doesn't define a persons spirit or mental constitution other than if your genetics make you a mentally unstable or sick. There is no precise way to make someone want to kill a specific person through gene manipulation. The closest you could get to that is manipulating their memories or subliminal messages like I mentioned above. Those would alter your brain chemistry. But those things can be changed and reversed

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

Actually, this Cell stuff is a good point. They did kill present Cell before he did anything. He's more likely than the androids to be evil no matter what, but you never know...

[MaxZ]

His DNA is his programming, and it's already set. DNA can't be reprogrammed at that stage.

Do we know that for sure? No, you're making up that to justify a double standard.
We don't know for sure if Bulma could be able to reprogram Cell, neither. Maybe she couldn't. But we know for sure that they didn't even tried. There was no hurry to destroy Cell (unlike in the C18 situation), they had years to figure out a way to make him good, or decide if that was impossible.
But they just blow him up, because neither Trunks or Krillin had the hots for Cell.

but do you really think either of them ever had that thought? "wait, what if Bulma can make Cell a nice guy?!!" yeah right. it's a crazy what if scenario that wouldn't have occurred to anyone.

[Xeztin]

Exactly. If the shoe was on the other foot and it was 17 that had the bomb in him, Krillin wouldn't have hesitated to do deactivate him.

Pretty much this, if 18 never kissed Kuririn and he never developed a crush on her he'd have hit the switch. His personal emotions got in the way and it helped Cell reach his perfect form. Vegeta's pride and Kuririn's crush almost caused the end for all of them and even humanity itself. Also if Cell never existed, she'd more than likely would have ended up killing Goku (or trying) anyways. She became the innocent one for Kuririn when she became the hunted instead of the hunter.

Vegeta; yes. But Kuririn didn't cause Cell to absorb 18, he prevented someone (who actually did turn out pretty good) from dying. His feeling didn't "get in the way", they let him see the good in the Androids.

The thing is, if Cell wasn't hunting them there would have been no good in the androids (Trunk's timeline) If Cell never existed they would still have tried to kill Goku. Once they became the hunted then all of a sudden they were the good guys because they needed help and protection from Cell. They had a common enemy.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

The thing is, if Cell wasn't hunting them there would have been no good in the androids (Trunk's timeline) If Cell never existed they would still have tried to kill Goku. Once they became the hunted then all of a sudden they were the good guys because they needed help and protection from Cell. They had a common enemy.

Teaming up with someone isn't enough to make someone good.

[MaxZ]

I still think Krillin's decision was the only morally correct one, and I won't be convinced otherwise.

[Akyon]

To be honest, there's no real 'correct' answer here, just who you side with is what kind of person you are.

Krillin's answer was completely in character, although I still stand by it wasn't because he wanted to bang 18, unless we're suggesting he also wants to bang Dende and 16 too as he saved both of them at one time or another.
He's a person who doesn't go around murdering innocent humans and someone who has a kind heart. Piccolo's answer would be totally different because he thinks in a different way. Krillin has a soft heart and puts individuals first, whilst Piccolo thinks more analytically about situations.
For example; Piccolo allowed first form Cell to absorb that rich man in order to gain knowledge about the enemy, his motivations and how his absorption worked. I can't see Krillin doing this. It's just not in his nature. They operate differently as characters.

Whilst I'd classify both Krillin and Piccolo as Earth's defenders, their personalities couldn't be more different when it comes to this sort of moral dillema. I can't for example, imagine Krillin being okay with sending Buu to kill everyone on the planet to buy time. Likewise, there was no way Piccolo would of thought twice about destroying 18 had he had the remote.

Personally I wouldn't be okay with murdering a fellow human who hasn't at the time done anything wrong as part of a plan for the greater good. Ergo I side with Krillin. I can understand Piccolo's thought process in the Buu saga to buy time so they could defeat Buu, but at the same time the Dragonballs sure have made some of the heroes come off as cold and uncaring towards humanity.
"Oh, just kill everyone; it's cool, we'll bring them back with the Dragonballs." No, good god, no.
It's a good job everyone was wished to forget about their deaths and the events of the Buu saga when they were brought back because the international wide nightmares of remembering your death and your loved ones deaths would be horrific.

Which brings up why killing 18 and then just wishing her back as a token moral gesture isn't a great idea even logically.
You kill her, bring her back, and what does she remember?
The Z fighters KILLING her. If there's one way to make sure she turns into the Future Trunks evil version that hates humanity and swears to kill the Z fighters, it'd be that way. Sure the Saiyans and Piccolo may be able to keep the Androids under control for a bit, but as they can't sense them, they could attack whilst their guards are down(shoutout to Sorbet's ring again) and boom; the future Trunks timeline happens in the present.

[MaxZ]

In honesty, I can't imagine even Piccolo killing the androids, if they surrendered. At least, not unless Cell was right there.

If say, 17 had surrendered to Piccolo and begged for his life, can you really see Piccolo just blowing him away in cold blood anyway?

[Nejishiki]

Piccolo was determined to destroy No. 17. I know you're getting into hypotheticals, but No. 17 is too proud to ever beg for his life. It's more likely No. 18 would come to assist him. Piccolo himself is more open to being ruthless. It's written into his fighting style. He will break limbs and make his opponents feel pain as long as it doesn't put him at a disadvantage. Early Vegeta's character arc would have him draw this out instead due to his nature of wanting to feel superior at every wake. Bouncing back to the subject, Piccolo wanted at least one of them to die, so he would definitely feel content with the decision. Let's also consider the God side of himself didn't reject the idea. It was for the bigger picture in their eyes and God has shown a willingness for this behavior in the past when he attempted to kill Piccolo.

[MaxZ]

Piccolo was determined to destroy No. 17. I know you're getting into hypotheticals, but No. 17 is too proud to ever beg for his life. It's more likely No. 18 would come to assist him. Piccolo himself is more open to being ruthless. It's written into his fighting style. He will break limbs and make his opponents feel pain as long as it doesn't put him at a disadvantage. Early Vegeta's character arc would have him draw this out instead due to his nature of wanting to feel superior at every wake. Bouncing back to the subject, Piccolo wanted at least one of them to die, so he would definitely feel content with the decision. Let's also consider the God side of himself didn't reject the idea. It was for the bigger picture in their eyes and God has shown a willingness for this behavior in the past when he attempted to kill Piccolo.

I still don't think he would kill someone that had surrendered and begged for their life. Maybe before he fused with Kami, but after? No way. He was willing to kill 17 as long as 17 continued to fight, definitely. But if he surrendered, he wouldn't have gone through with it in my opinion. Instead he'd probably tell the androids about Cell and help them hide.

[Nejishiki]

He went through with the battle because he knew Cell was getting stronger. Telling either of them to hide is delaying the inevitable because he already had a feeling he'd be overpowered thanks to Cell masking his ki as he attacked innocents to strengthen himself. It was a matter of halting his progress, in some way. It would be out of character for him to back out just as God was on board with attacking a defenseless Piccolo. Now, maybe he would feel regret if a teenager begged for him to stop and I even agree that he may have spared one as long as the other were gone. That's context-sensitive, however, as he still didn't want Cell to complete his perfection, so while settling with one artificial human is preferable, he would absolutely play it safe and attempt to discourage Cell's growth further as long as he could stand.

[MaxZ]

He went through with the battle because he knew Cell was getting stronger. Telling either of them to hide is delaying the inevitable because he already had a feeling he'd be overpowered thanks to Cell masking his ki as he attacked innocents to strengthen himself. It was a matter of halting his progress, in some way. It would be out of character for him to back out just as God was on board with attacking a defenseless Piccolo. Now, maybe he would feel regret if a teenager begged for him to stop and I even agree that he may have spared one as long as the other were gone. That's context-sensitive, however, as he still didn't want Cell to complete his perfection, so while settling with one artificial human is preferable, he would absolutely play it safe and attempt to discourage Cell's growth further as long as he could stand.

I don't think hiding them is only "delaying the inevitable"

if they knew to hide before Cell got near them, there'd be no way he could ever find them, he can't sense them.

I just can't see the Kami part of Piccolo being willing to personally kill an innocent that had surrendered.