Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Discussion specifically regarding the "Dragon Ball Super" TV series premiering July 2015 in Japan, including individual threads for each episode.
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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by Luso Saiyan » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:33 am

precita wrote:I've liked it from the start.
Same here. In fact, ever since they ended the retellings of the movies (with the exception of the much welcome bridging episodes), it has been continuously interesting and engaging.

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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by kinisking » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:46 am

I like everything besides for Pilaf Gang and Gohan being ignorant on the situation. I've also liked Super from the start. Even the retellings had their moments :P
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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by sintzu » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:50 am

kinisking wrote:You know it's going to happen.

I wanted it to be Vegeta at first too, but FT deserves it more than him.

Goku's the main character.
I do know but I'm still used to Z always doing something different that I'm hoping Toriyama will do that again even though it's unlikely considering how he handled Vegeta in the RF movie.

I want it to be anyone other than Goku.

That didn't mean anything in Z cause he got treated like everyone else.
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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by kinisking » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:07 pm

sintzu wrote:
kinisking wrote:You know it's going to happen.

I wanted it to be Vegeta at first too, but FT deserves it more than him.

Goku's the main character.
I do know but I'm still used to Z always doing something different that I'm hoping Toriyama will do that again even though it's unlikely considering how he handled Vegeta in the RF movie.

I want it to be anyone other than Goku.

That didn't mean anything in Z cause he got treated like everyone else.
Goku DID NOT get treated like everyone else. Let's go through all the main villians.

Vegeta and Nappa: Destroyed Nappa while everyone else could barely touch him. Did the main bulk of the fighting against Vegeta although Gohan and Krillin did help.
Freeza: Beat him himself. Yeah, Trunks killed him but he wasn't even the main villian at that point and Goku was stronger than Trunks.
Cell: Gohan beat him but Goku still had a bigger focus than everyone else. Saves the world from getting blown up, encourages Gohan, trained Gohan, has his own battle against perfect cell.
Boo: He was the one to use the spirit bomb and was the only one to have a decent fight against fat boo or kid boo.

Then in Super:
Beerus: lost
Freeza: He killed him
Hit: tie
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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by Anime Kitten » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:26 pm

Yes, I am. 47 was one of the best episodes of the series. I'm a fan of Black, and a huge fan of Zamasu. Gowasu is surprisingly interesting. I'm looking forward to see how these Time Rings play in. I haven't seen 55 yet, but I already hate this Get Out of Trouble Free Button. It ruins the tension that we almost got back from Beerus and Whis staying in the present. And the Pilaf Gang needs to leave already. They're useless right now.

Overall, I'd say 8.8/10 so far. Can't wait for Super Saiyan Rosé!
[spoiler]Dishonest score - 7.8/10: Too Much Pilaf Gang :P[/spoiler]
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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by spencer7x7 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:31 pm

I don't mind the Pilaf gang, but there's too much stalling in these episodes. I'm all for character development but did we really need a whole episode dedicated to Gohan? Either way it's good overall and next episode should be good.
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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by kinisking » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:40 pm

spencer7x7 wrote:I don't mind the Pilaf gang, but there's too much stalling in these episodes. I'm all for character development but did we really need a whole episode dedicated to Gohan? Either way it's good overall and next episode should be good.
It was dedicated to Trunks really. Plus Gohan was only there for around half the episode.
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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by SSJ Human » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:00 pm

The only thing I don't like about the saga is that Gohan completely is ignorant of what's going on and everyone else is still without much of a role apart from the villains, Trunks, both versions of Mai, Vegeta, Goku and Bulma.

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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by Ajay » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:25 pm

Very much so.

I've wanted Super to slow down and present a story with genuine intrigue and tension from the very beginning. It failed to do that with the Universe 6 tournament, but so far, this Future Trunks arc is really working for me. Despite an evil Goku sounding like piss-poor fan fiction on paper, they've done a good job with him so far. Sumitomo's score is much more palatable, and when used in conjunction with Nozawa's outstanding performance, he has some real screen presense. Likewise, Zamasu is yet another wonderful addition to the world, and I hope the plot-line surrounding him has a satisfying pay-off. He may well end up as one of the more interesting villains from the series if they keep building on his distaste for mortals. Kaioshin gone rogue? Hell yeah! That's a great idea.

I'll absolutely concede that some of the Pilaf scenes have broken the tone in a few places. I think the end of episode 50 is a good example of that, but thankfully it's fairly rare. Their presence for the most part has felt appropriate, and considering the story, it's nice that they have a reason to be around now. It's still a huge oversight not to actually explain their age in Super, especially given the second chance to do so in this arc, but as someone who has been pretending the first 27 episodes of Super don't exist, it's not the biggest concern ever, I suppose. At least the explanation exists in the movies!

I do think Goku's lack of intelligence has been overdone to irritating degrees at this point. I was honestly just fine with it in the previous arcs, since it wasn't hugely different from Toriyama's manga Goku, but it's become a bit of an issue lately. There are only so many times he can mess up a greeting or instantly challenge someone to a duel before it stops being funny. Him actually doing something properly would be a hilarious round-off to that joke at this point. I can just imagine Whis' reaction to it! This is ultimately on the various writers -- they all have different ideas of the character, and they don't all mesh together as well as they probably should. Happened in GT, happened now. Frustrating, irritating, distracting, but again, not a total deal-breaker.

All of the breaks the show has been having are certainly a big ol' blessing. I know they're making it feel like the arc is really dragging for some people, but the series needs these to actually stand a chance of catching up with itself. If the next two episodes are as outstanding as I expect them to be, then I'll know the breaks have paid off. We've only really had two iffy looking episodes out of the nine so far; that's a pretty good ratio! We're still (and probably will forever be) a long way from normality, but every little helps, I guess.

Looking forward to the future content. Hoping the arc lasts a good 30 episodes or so! I feel like we've only just gotten to the meat of the story, so my biggest hope right now is that they don't rush through to the end. Fingers crossed!
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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by Saikyo no Senshi » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:29 pm

It's alright so far still nothing to shout about though. While Gokuu Black and Zamasu have managed to catch my interest the return of Mirai Trunks and the whole MaixTrunks thing I don't like it. Mirai Trunks has failed to impress me yet hopefully in future episodes that changes. The Pilaf Gang is another negative. Yoka Yoka whatever is crap not cause it doesn't suit the tone of the arc it is cause the vocals are unbearable.

The music and the animation have improved a little bit compared to the u6 arc which is good. The writing is hit and miss imo. Tomioka's writing was great in 47,48&55 but 49,50&51 were weak. King Ryuu is good(hope he writes the majority of the arc) and finally Toshio whose writing is horrible.

Overall it is a 6/10 for me so far which is what I expected so I'm not disappointed.

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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by sintzu » Wed Aug 24, 2016 2:53 pm

kinisking wrote:
Vegeta : Did the main bulk of the fighting against Vegeta although Gohan and Krillin did help.

Freeza: Beat him himself. Yeah, Trunks killed him but he wasn't even the main villian at that point and Goku was stronger than Trunks.

Cell: Gohan beat him but Goku still had a bigger focus than everyone else.

Boo: He was the one to use the spirit bomb.

Then in Super:
Beerus: lost
Freeza: He killed him
Hit: tie
Vegeta literally broke every bone in his body and it was up to those 2 to save him and force Vegeta off the planet so it was a little more than help.

Can't argue that.

He did have a bigger focus but the main focus was on Gohan.

The Spirit Bomb was Vegeta's idea and he and Buu held him off while Goku collected energy for it and Satan convinced everyone to give it to him so it was a team battle.

Although he didn't win against Beerus and Hit, the spotlight was completely and only on him while in Z that only happened once during his fight with Freeza.

If Super's RF arc followed the movie then he would've gotten ALL the spotlight AGAIN but thankfully Toei gave it to Vegeta instead.
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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by kinisking » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:05 pm

sintzu wrote:
kinisking wrote:
Vegeta : Did the main bulk of the fighting against Vegeta although Gohan and Krillin did help.

Freeza: Beat him himself. Yeah, Trunks killed him but he wasn't even the main villian at that point and Goku was stronger than Trunks.

Cell: Gohan beat him but Goku still had a bigger focus than everyone else.

Boo: He was the one to use the spirit bomb.

Then in Super:
Beerus: lost
Freeza: He killed him
Hit: tie
Vegeta literally broke every bone in his body and it was up to those 2 to save him and force Vegeta off the planet so it was a little more than help.

Can't argue that.

He did have a bigger focus but the main focus was on Gohan.

The Spirit Bomb was Vegeta's idea and he and Buu held him off while Goku collected energy for it and Satan convinced everyone to give it to him so it was a team battle.

Although he didn't win against Beerus and Hit, the spotlight was completely and only on him while in Z that only happened once during his fight with Freeza.

If Super's RF arc followed the movie then he would've gotten ALL the spotlight AGAIN but thankfully Toei gave it to Vegeta instead.
Vegeta did some serious damage for sure but Goku still had a major focus in that fight that surpassed all the other characters. You can't say that he was treated the same as.

Cell did have the main focus on Gohan, but even then Goku was treated more special than the remaining cast.

The spirit bomb was Vegeta's idea but it was still Goku who made it possible. Although, youre right about Mr. Satan being critical.

The spotlight was on him during Beerus, I can't deny that. But are you forgetting before hit, Vegeta hogged the spot light? Jaco and the galactic king were the only reasons Goku stood a chance also.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.

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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by sintzu » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:21 pm

kinisking wrote:
The spirit bomb was Vegeta's idea but it was still Goku who made it possible. Although, youre right about Mr. Satan being critical.

Are you forgetting before hit, Vegeta hogged the spot light ?

Jaco and the galactic king were the only reasons Goku stood a chance also.
The fight was written in a way that winning without one of the parts would not be possible which is something we haven't gotten yet.

That's true and I was extremely happy to see that but it wasn't the same as getting the main fight cause he could've taken them all out in a second by going SsjB.

I guess you're right.
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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by Cipher » Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:38 pm

On one hand: Yes, I'm excited to tune in and enjoy having a genuine sense of mystery in the series akin to the very beginning of Cell's appearance and Kaioshin's appearance at the Tenkaichi Budokai -- both of which remain some of my favorite brief portions of the series.

On the other: As with the Universe 6 arc, I can't help but think constantly about what the same material would look like with Toriyama's execution, rather than Toei's selection of writers. This is remains far more distracting to me than with GT, because that show feels confident in its own movements and is a Toei production from the ground up. There's something more transparent about the separation between Toriyama's outline and its execution here.

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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by omaro34 » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:32 pm

It's alright I guess. I do enjoy Zamasu's increasing hatred for mortals, Black's attitude, and the overall mystery element to the story. The Arc had a great start to it; the first episode set the tone in terms of the mood of the story, and this was evident with the overall scenary of Trunks' world & Future Bulma's death.

There are still many unanswered questions as to what Black's true identity is, his connection to Zamasu, the origin of Zeno & what he saw in Goku, and further explanations on the life connection between Kai's and God's of Destruction.

Do I rank it anywhere close to Arcs like the Saiyan saga, Freeza, or Cell Arcs? As of right now, hell no, but the jury is still out on that one; although my nostalgic stubbornness will probably still not accept it if it ends up having an amazing ending.

Even though my favorite character (Piccolo) isn't in the Arc, I'm still enjoying it for the most part. Hopefully the ending is creative and original.
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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:49 pm

Hell yeah.

Goku Black has been a fantastic villain in all accounts from his personality to Nozawa sensational performance of him. I'm also extremely very intrigued by the development of Zamasu and his descending morality. He's the first villain(?) introduced in the franchise that doesn't have a shallow motivation or purpose. What Dragon Ball has always been desperately lacking in is a complex villain, and so far, the groundwork for Zamasu being the three dimensional villain that the franchise has really needed has been laid out brilliantly. Now it's just up to Toei and Toriyama to make sure they don't drop the ball with this guy. If they nail the execution and payoff of the reveal of Goku Black's true identity, I strongly believe he will go down as one of the best villains the franchise has ever had. And it's remarkable that it could lead to that for me, considering I practically groaned at the idea of "Evil Goku" in Super. They have really manged to make it work so far. The sense of mystery and world building has really been this arcs greatest attribute.

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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by batistabus » Wed Aug 24, 2016 6:53 pm

I think it's by far the best arc of the Super anime in terms of pacing, animation, and script. I feel like I can fully enjoy it as an anime rather than a rushed Dragon Ball production with some good stuff to sort through. Aside from the general production, I'm really enjoying the expanded lore, the new characters, and the classic Toriyama retcons that end up working suspiciously well.

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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by Neo Hartless » Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:29 pm

I've been liking the series since the beginning, despite the repetition of the movie retellings (And the removal of the parts I liked the best), the fact that they've established BoG's lighter, breezier tone as the mood for the series as a whole made for a very satisfying experience, even at the most subpar episodes. Which brings me to the "filler" or "cooldown", which have been the most pleasant surprise in the series, everything from Super Satan to Beerus disguised as Monaka have been the funniest episodes of Dragon Ball I've seen ever since the original series (With the exception of Super Water Arc, that one was unnecessary in general). The Tournament Arc has been a mixed bag, but it was nice in general, for every Goku versus Botamo there was a Goku vs Hit, and it ended in a classic Toriyama anti-climax which never fails to please.

The announcement of the Trunks Arc caught me off guard. The concept of a fan-favorite character like Future Trunks fighting an evil version of Goku sounded way too crow-pleasing for Toriyama, who doesn't do this sort of thing ofter, especially so soon after Ressurection "F". We would find out that, yes, Trunk's inclusion was an "editorial suggestion". We don't really know at what point the "suggestion" ends and Toriyama's ideas begin, but some details give the impression that it wasn't planned very much in advance, and its inclusion before the supposed Multiversal Tournament wasn't as organic as it could have been. The most noticeable clue being Gohan's episode in the arc. It was a very well written, beautiful episode for sure, and has a great deal of character development for Trunks, but the way that all the characters refer to Gohan as having given up fighting simply doesn't match the change of attitude he has after the Freeza arc (With the caveat that Gohan himself never gets to have his say in the matter), which is probably because they don't want to have him in action before the next tournament. Meanwhile the only attempt so far to tie in to the forthcoming arc has been awkward at best, derailing the plot right when it was starting to pick up its pace. But it fits well enough.

With that out of the way, onto the plot! I'm amazed at how much it worked so far. My main concern was that the inclusion of such a serious character like Future Trunks would clash with the funnier, less stakesy, post-Battle of Gods Dragon Ball of the 21st century, and that he'd lose what made him appealing in the first place. And while that concern wasn't unfounded (There'd better be a BIG payoff waiting for all those Pilaf shenannigans), this arc has been the most satisfying in the anime so far. Ever since the arc's first episode, we've had moments of drama, character growth, some very good fights, slow building of tension, all while further expanding the post-BoG lore I never knew I wanted, But the most important aspect has been the development of the villain. Zamasu's slow descent into villany has really been the highlight of the arc for me. Exploring a villain's motivations is one of the most basic practice in these types of stories, but in Dragon Ball it feels like such a novel thing that it's like a breath of fresh air. And after three arcs which, while good, never left me with a sense of stakes, now seems like a good time for an all-around serious villain like Black.

It's not perfect by any means, Goku's inteligence and Pilaf's involvement got old fast, but on a whole it's a vast improvement compared to the last arcs and so far the good has significantly outweighed the bad. If this is the level of quality we're getting from now on then I expect good things for the future.

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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by emperior » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:10 am

Yes. DBS is fianlly looking like a true continuation of DBZ thanks to this arc. We will have to wait and see how it ends though.
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Re: Are you enjoying the Black Arc so far?

Post by Mazingerdestro » Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:47 am

Everything related to Trunks vs Black were great till now.
Vegeta training Trunks was good.
Zeno and Goku were also fine.
Zamasu is a great character and I do hope there is a clear reason for going dark.

However I disliked:
Goku vs Black (the battle was short, bad animated with animation changing every 3 seconds and Goku ben out of character and fighting like an ssj when it was stated that ssj2 Trunks lost to Black)
The do drag the story a lot. Last arcs were moving very fast and this one goes as slow as it goes.

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