I can't watch Movie 3 without thinking Turles is Goku Black

[precita]

Now its difficult to see Turles as a separate character. I never liked this movie much anyway as its one of the weaker movies, but now Turtles feels even more out of place than he did already.

[FoolsGil]

Well you know what else, the Fruit of Might is supposed to be eaten by the Gods. Now what God do we know loves eating as much as he loves destroying planets, and could reasonably cut out the middle man and do both at the same time?



So now I can't watch Movie 3 without thinking Turles took Beers' seeds.

[Soppa Saia People]

Isn't Tullece's concept just Gokuu if he never had brain damage ? Black is completely different concept no ?

[Chuquita]

Turles is more a rough and tumble villain imo. Gokû Black acts more high class/narcissistic/masochistic villain.
Also Turles doesn't bother with pants vs Gokû Black has a long sleeve turtleneck.

They do both try to clear out planets though, but for different personal reasons (food for the tree of might vs a methodology).

Turles looks more like Gokû. He's got his eyes and body build where Gokû Black doesn't.

[Nejishiki]

I don't see it and I never agreed with the movie implying Goku could have developed into Tullece. He's more in line as a mixture of Raditz and Vegeta in character traits. Kakarotto, to me, would be the ideal Saiyan, obsessed with fighting and becoming stronger with zero regard for others, embracing of his pride and rage. His genius would only make him all the more dreadful compared to a typical Saiyan. It's a thin line of wild that separates the Son from the savage, because they're really not too far off from being the same. Tullece, on the other hand, was more a pirate seeking to conquer through any means possible. I can't see a hypothetical Kakarotto caring to form a crew or overtake Freeza as the boss of the universe, as his motives seemed to be. The appearance is just that, an appearance that eases Goku into being grateful that he was raised an Earthling, just as he concluded with Raditz and Vegeta. Even if I were to compare Tullece with Goku proper, none of their quirks reasonably match up well, I think.

That said, Goku Black is even more divorced from Tullece. He's creepily polite and takes pleasure taking his time with combat. There isn't an ounce of pragmatism within him. It's merely a fun game to him. Aside from his extinction plans, studying Goku's form is his greatest joy as he forms his ideal universe. He's actually more in tune with Goku's personality in certain areas and it would explain why he is so disturbed by him. He perverts the lessons Goku learned and twists it so that he's lost into his own delusion. It's difficult dealing with somebody following a blueprint incorrectly. It doesn't help that he can satiate Goku's itch of ultimate strength due to his heritage allowing him to reach heights that Goku couldn't so easily. The same goes for Goku in regard to breaking limits, but it never being easy for him makes the difference in thinking that more apparent, the superiority complex that was squandered with one, but not the other. He's all that Goku ever wanted, but not like that. It's the humbling difference between a god and a mortal, as explored in Battle of Gods.

[Kakacarrottop]

I've always just approached him as being another Saiyan bad guy, perhaps in the same bloodline as Bardock. It's very plausible since there is not a single mention of his similarities to Goku in the movie, aside from the brief exchange with Gohan. If he was truly meant to be Evil Goku like Goku Black is now, then the writers would have made that the main plot point of the film, as opposed to some giant evil Tree. That whole "Turles is Goku if he hadn't hit his head" thing is just a fan theory that isn't official in anyway.

[Soppa Saia People]

I've always just approached him as being another Saiyan bad guy, perhaps in the same bloodline as Bardock. It's very plausible since there is not a single mention of his similarities to Goku in the movie, aside from the brief exchange with Gohan. If he was truly meant to be Evil Goku like Goku Black is now, then the writers would have made that the main plot point of the film, as opposed to some giant evil Tree. That whole "Turles is Goku if he hadn't hit his head" thing is just a fan theory that isn't official in anyway.

Alright, that makes sense (I've never watched movie 3)

[NitroEX]

If he was truly meant to be Evil Goku like Goku Black is now, then the writers would have made that the main plot point of the film, as opposed to some giant evil Tree. That whole "Turles is Goku if he hadn't hit his head" thing is just a fan theory that isn't official in anyway.

I disagree. The writers don't hit you over the head with Turles being Evil Goku because they aren't treating the viewer like an idiot, the subtext of the film is clearly dealing with that premise though. The main plot of doesn't need to focus on the parallels between the two characters because frankly, that would be very boring and wouldn't fit the sci-fi space warrior direction the franchise was headed in by that point. Now that the series is dealing with God's and mystical elements again they're kind of free to explore it from that direction but back then the most popular thing was Saiyans and external threats coming from space.

At the end of the day Turles is designed to look like Goku for a reason. After Goku's Saiyan origins are revealed it made perfect sense for them to play with the idea of what if he didn't bump his head? Turles is the result of that and I don't think it's something that needs to be officially stated because it's laid out right in front of you.

As for OP, I personally don't see why Turles is out of place due to the creation of Black Goku. Super and the Z movies are separate from the main series and I basically just treat them as self contained what-if stories that hold about as much value as GT. If I had things my way I'd personally prefer they actually make Goku himself an evil character whether via manipulation or otherwise as that would not only be a ballsy move (potentially changing the way fans see Goku from then on, effecting the established status quo) but it would make for a premise that would truly test the whole cast and would undoubtedly be the hardest opponent they'd ever have to fight, both physically and emotionally.

[TheGreatness25]

The writers were lazy with Tullece and are now lazy with Black's design. Was there any point at all of making Black look like Goku? Is this actually discussed beyond a B.S. mention here and there? Are the characters tripped out seeing Black looking like Goku? If the answer is "no" to any of those questions, then there was zero reason to have Black look like Goku.

[MajinMan]

The writers were lazy with Tullece and are now lazy with Black's design. Was there any point at all of making Black look like Goku? Is this actually discussed beyond a B.S. mention here and there? Are the characters tripped out seeing Black looking like Goku? If the answer is "no" to any of those questions, then there was zero reason to have Black look like Goku.

We still don't know what exactly Black is. Saying that there is zero reason for Black to look like Goku is false. There could be something coming up soon explaining why he looks the way he does or what he actually is.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Well you know what else, the Fruit of Might is supposed to be eaten by the Gods. Now what God do we know loves eating as much as he loves destroying planets, and could reasonably cut out the middle man and do both at the same time?



So now I can't watch Movie 3 without thinking Turles took Beers' seeds.

Oddly enough that was going to happen in my fanfic before I gave up on it.

[Rubens]

They are very different from each other (not in terms of appearance, I mean): Tullece exploits planets for power regardless of the consequences, and Black is following is own crusade for what he believes to be a greater good. Besides, if Tullece was initially designed to be somewhat an evil version of Goku, Black simply appears to be a whole other individual, having only his physical appeareance in common. At least that's what I think.

Curiously, I don't know if anyone mentioned it before, in the beggining of this arc Goku and Piccolo are harvesting Goku's farm when they're interrupted by Kuririn, who tells them Vegeta is at Beerus's planet; Goku immediatly teleports there, carrying a lettuce with him - since Tullece's name is a pun on the word "lettuce", I'm wondering if that was a reference.

[Michelle91]

Goku Black is a better written villain. Tullece to me is just another typical bad guy of the week for me. He is just Radditz in Goku's body.

[Soppa Saia People]

Goku Black is a better written villain. Tullece to me is just another typical bad guy of the week for me. He is just Radditz in Goku's body.

Genuine question, what the hell has Black done besides kill Mai (?) ? The guys seems like a blank slate. Granted Tullece sucked, but still.

[Polyphase Avatron]

He didn't kill Mai, he killed future Bulma.

[Michelle91]

Goku Black has reasons to his action. Seeing that he has his own idea of "the sake of justice" and humans are a failure to god to him. Tullece is just wants to look for Goku, eat the fruit and destroy the Earth. He also holds Gohan against his will and ask Goku to join him similar what Radditz did. Goku Black is pretty well like at the moment and people even call him the deepest villain in the series.

[Kanassa]

Goku Black is pretty well like at the moment and people even call him the deepest villain in the series.

People say it like it's that's much of a milestone in Dragonball...

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I don't see it and I never agreed with the movie implying Goku could have developed into Tullece. He's more in line as a mixture of Raditz and Vegeta in character traits. Kakarotto, to me, would be the ideal Saiyan, obsessed with fighting and becoming stronger with zero regard for others, embracing of his pride and rage. His genius would only make him all the more dreadful compared to a typical Saiyan. It's a thin line of wild that separates the Son from the savage, because they're really not too far off from being the same. Tullece, on the other hand, was more a pirate seeking to conquer through any means possible.

Yes. I see Tullece like that as well. Seemingly a mix of Raditz and Vegeta (more so closer to Raditz) and it doesn't really inherently mean that Goku would have become exactly like that in character, as Goku isn't really an arrogant person but more of an ignorant and self-centered one. That pride he would have would fit more in lines of being more like Bardock as I see it, where Bardock doesn't necessarily care about anything moral or self-imposing, but just wants to fight and doesn't care who or why. Though given Goku's natural instincts he had as a baby of being very rowdy and impulsive (according to Grandpa Gohan) he'd probably become more like Nappa, rather than Tullece.

As for Black, he is supposed to be the antitheses of Goku. Goku loves a carefree life, Black hates uncivilized mortals. Goku is silly and obnoxious (Most so in Super), while Black is articulate and cultured. (Which I'm glad for, because people who wanted an "Evil Goku" but are dissatisfied with Black, seem to only want a literal "Evil" Goku, which I don't see how it would be any better, let alone any different from either Tullece or Black).

[Gold_Jacobson]

At the end of the movie, I'm pretty sure Goku literally points to his head and says something about him turning out different than Tullece because of the head bump.

They lay it on pretty thick that Tullece is what Goku would be like without it.

[Lord Beerus]

As long Super provides a good reason for why Black looks like Goku, I can accept why they will go with that design. If not, Black will join the legion of lazy designs that have been a thorn in this franchise's side for decades, ala Turles.