Dragonball Z was not that good in the beginning..

[ABED]

I honestly think that Raditz should not have been revealed as Goku's brother. It does not serve a purpose and adds no extra drama other than "Goku's brother is an evil alien bastard omg." The fact that we never see or hear from him ever again proves that he could have just been a random Saiyan that was sent to earth by Vegeta and Nappa to recruit Goku to their squad.

It makes sense from a plot perspective. Who but someone from Goku's family would think of coming to Earth to get Goku besides a family member?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I honestly think that Raditz should not have been revealed as Goku's brother. It does not serve a purpose and adds no extra drama other than "Goku's brother is an evil alien bastard omg." The fact that we never see or hear from him ever again proves that he could have just been a random Saiyan that was sent to earth by Vegeta and Nappa to recruit Goku to their squad.

That would have also been acceptable for me. It's pretty obvious that Toriyama intended to do something with him, but scrapped the idea.

[TheMikado]

I honestly think that Raditz should not have been revealed as Goku's brother. It does not serve a purpose and adds no extra drama other than "Goku's brother is an evil alien bastard omg." The fact that we never see or hear from him ever again proves that he could have just been a random Saiyan that was sent to earth by Vegeta and Nappa to recruit Goku to their squad.

It makes sense from a plot perspective. Who but someone from Goku's family would think of coming to Earth to get Goku besides a family member?

Anyone who knew where he was headed in the original canon, like say the one who programmed the space pod or the brokers intending to sell the planet. I would have thought they'd have an idea of what planets were targeted and who they sent based in the child's power level. As I recall they specifically sent Goku to earth because it was easy to conquer and he was so weak so they had at least some Intel on both earth and Goku.

[MajinMan]

I honestly think that Raditz should not have been revealed as Goku's brother. It does not serve a purpose and adds no extra drama other than "Goku's brother is an evil alien bastard omg." The fact that we never see or hear from him ever again proves that he could have just been a random Saiyan that was sent to earth by Vegeta and Nappa to recruit Goku to their squad.

It makes sense from a plot perspective. Who but someone from Goku's family would think of coming to Earth to get Goku besides a family member?

Toriyama would have written it in another way. They could have told us that Vegeta had overheard that a Saiyan was sent to Earth before Planet Vegeta's demise. He would then tell Raditz (who isn't Goku's brother) to go recruit him so they can strengthen their squad. Raditz would arrive on Earth, and then things would play out mostly the same without the whole "I'm your brother" factor.

[ABED]

I honestly think that Raditz should not have been revealed as Goku's brother. It does not serve a purpose and adds no extra drama other than "Goku's brother is an evil alien bastard omg." The fact that we never see or hear from him ever again proves that he could have just been a random Saiyan that was sent to earth by Vegeta and Nappa to recruit Goku to their squad.

It makes sense from a plot perspective. Who but someone from Goku's family would think of coming to Earth to get Goku besides a family member?

Anyone who knew where he was headed in the original canon, like say the one who programmed the space pod or the brokers intending to sell the planet. I would have thought they'd have an idea of what planets were targeted and who they sent based in the child's power level. As I recall they specifically sent Goku to earth because it was easy to conquer and he was so weak so they had at least some Intel on both earth and Goku.

Those people were dead and Vegeta doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that would go to a third class fighter for help.

It's pretty obvious that Toriyama intended to do something with him, but scrapped the idea.

How is it obvious? Raditz served his purpose? Making him Goku's brother does in fact add something to the story by characterizing the Saiyans as only caring about power. Even their family members don't matter to them.

[Nejishiki]

It works for Goku's character. It establishes that family doesn't mean blood, but bond. The nuance is lost if the character isn't closely related to him. Sure, you could remove the brotherly ties, but I think that makes it more "random" than it would experiencing Goku react to a legitimate link to his race. Really, it's because so many treat families as a major component to their lives that it's interesting to test Goku's values with that knowledge. The person, not their title, should be judged, which is something he does often. It works on the other side for Raditz, too. He quickly dismisses their link once they frustrate him enough. He doesn't blink an eye over getting rid of both his nephew and brother once it's clear they won't be useful to him. You get a subtle look into Saiyan culture observing this behavior, which was another point to his introduction.

[Cipher]

I have mixed feelings on the opening thirty-some episodes. The training filler is largely fantastic, though it does last forever, and it's hard to appreciate what it would have been like tuning in real time, rather than marathoning it through home releases and faster-paced TV airings more than a decade later. I suppose with the manga, it might have just been fun extra content either way.

At any rate, the pacing is better than the nadir of the Namek arc adaptation, which just collapses sometime around the Ginyu Tokusentai's arrival.

I will say that the first episode of Z is fucking terrible. Twenty minutes of Gohan running around in the wilderness to show us nothing the manga doesn't pack into his first two introductory panels (which are adapted next episode anyway!). There's nothing really funny or interesting about it. Probably on my short list of least-favorite single episodes in the series.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I have mixed feelings on the opening thirty-some episodes. The training filler is largely fantastic, though it does last forever, and it's hard to appreciate what it would have been like tuning in real time, rather than marathoning it through home releases and faster-paced TV airings more than a decade later. I suppose with the manga, it might have just been fun extra content either way.

At any rate, the pacing is better than the nadir of the Namek arc adaptation, which just collapses sometime around the Ginyu Tokusentai's arrival.

I will say that the first episode of Z is fucking terrible. Twenty minutes of Gohan running around in the wilderness to show us nothing the manga doesn't pack into his first two introductory panels (which are adapted next episode anyway!). There's nothing really funny or interesting about it. Probably on my short list of least-favorite single episodes in the series.

I liked that episode... It was cute.

[Cipher]

I liked that episode... It was cute.

I guess I like "cute" in Dragon Ball when it's both cute and funny. Toriyama nails that all the time. That episode just feels phoned in.

Obviously your mileage may vary.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I liked that episode... It was cute.

I guess I like "cute" in Dragon Ball when it's both cute and funny. Toriyama nails that all the time. That episode just feels phoned in.

Obviously your mileage may vary.

I'm a sap for any situation where kid Goku or Gohan are doing cute things. It's something I wish we got to see more of in DBS with Goten, Trunks, & Pan.

[sintzu]

People that hate the pacing of DBZ and near releastic consistency would proply praise super for it's tom and Jerry antics or illogical fangirl powerscaling.

I hate Z's pacing and have complained countless times about Super's quality.

[Friezacooler]

People that hate the pacing of DBZ and near releastic consistency would proply praise super for it's tom and Jerry antics or illogical fangirl powerscaling.

I hate Z's pacing and have complained countless times about Super's quality.

nothing wrong with the pacing of Z anime as the manga is there as an alternative. instate if we look at Super's extremely bad anime quality and we judge the super manga instate then we still stuck with the fangirlism and illogical powerscaling. Which indeed is complete opposite of what the Z anime was about, as it was avoiding to be like doctor slump or other toons with ton of suspension of disbelief.

[DBZAOTA482]

In my opinion the fight with Raditz was rushed than until episode 21 nothing special is happened..At Episode 21 came Vegeta & Nappa it was good really actionpacked but i think

not that great....At Episode 40 with Planet Namek Dragonball Z has started to become great like Dragonball Super with episode 37(Trunks Arc)

But Saiyan lore, Goku coming in grips with his heritage, Piccolo discovering his past and coming out of his father's shadow, Gohan's introduction and coming-of-age story, and Vegeta...

[ABED]

Goku coming in grips with his heritage, Piccolo coming out of his father's shadow

I love early DBZ. It's the best part of that show, but you make these things sound deeper than they actually were. Goku never really struggles with his heritage. It's not a huge arc for his character. Remember when he smiles after telling Kaio that he's a Saiyan? And Piccolo getting out of his father's shadow, I think you need to expand on that because there are a couple ways to interpret it.

[Draconic]

While I really don't agree, since the Saiyan arc is my favorite in the series, I think the problem is that while the overall story is great, the episodes themselves aren't that good in the beginning (with a few exceptions). I really don't know how I was able to keep watching the series when I was a kid, with one episode weekly. When binge watching the show now the story flows much better than one episode a week.
This problem gets remedied after a while, but by that point the overall pacing goes down in quality. There are much better single episodes in the Namek, Cell and Buu arcs than there are in this early portion.

[DBZAOTA482]

Goku coming in grips with his heritage, Piccolo coming out of his father's shadow

I love early DBZ. It's the best part of that show, but you make these things sound deeper than they actually were. Goku never really struggles with his heritage. It's not a huge arc for his character. Remember when he smiles after telling Kaio that he's a Saiyan? And Piccolo getting out of his father's shadow, I think you need to expand on that because there are a couple ways to interpret it.

Goku refused to accept that he was a Saiyan but he learns more pieces of his past that makes it undeniable and he even succumbs to his Saiyan urges. It's only after Vegeta gets killed by Freeza does he proudly claims himself as a Saiyan.

Everyone's perception of Piccolo was based on what his father did (except Goku and Gohan's) since he's the demon reincarnated but as we're shown, which is evident even from the beginning, he is a far cry from his father.

[ABED]

Goku refused to accept that he was a Saiyan but he learns more pieces of his past that makes it undeniable and he even succumbs to his Saiyan urges. It's only after Vegeta gets killed by Freeza does he proudly claims himself as a Saiyan.

Go back to my Kaio-sama example. He refuses to accept it for a minute. He moved on very quickly.

Everyone's perception of Piccolo was based on what his father did (except Goku and Gohan's) since he's the demon reincarnated but as we're shown, which is evident even from the beginning, he is a far cry from his father.

He IS his father. He was all his father's memories and abilities, plus, Piccolo did in fact try to do what he/his father tried before. Piccolo's odd, he's a reincarnation/son, so everyone's perceptions of him are justifiable. Goku's perceptions of Piccolo are simply that he's a strong warrior. He's different from his dad, but only becomes so later on. He wasn't some misunderstood person who was persecuted so he turns to evil, which is what you seem to imply.

[Bansho64]

I'm afraid I'm not understanding the argument here? Aren't you two agreeing with each other?

[ABED]

I'm afraid I'm not understanding the argument here? Aren't you two agreeing with each other?

No, he's saying Goku had a far harder time accepting his Saiyan heritage than I believe he did.

[DBZAOTA482]

Go back to my Kaio-sama example. He refuses to accept it for a minute. He moved on very quickly.

I checked and he did call himself as a Saiyan when King Kai mentioned his planet had gravity as great as Planet Vegeta. Still didn't embrace it his heritage.

He IS his father. He was all his father's memories and abilities, plus, Piccolo did in fact try to do what he/his father tried before. Piccolo's odd, he's a reincarnation/son, so everyone's perceptions of him are justifiable. Goku's perceptions of Piccolo are simply that he's a strong warrior. He's different from his dad, but only becomes so later on. He wasn't some misunderstood person who was persecuted so he turns to evil, which is what you seem to imply.

Gohan was told by Goku that Piccolo wasn't nearly as evil as his father which is most likely why he was cool with feeding Piccolo a senzu since he knew he wouldn't do shit. It was also stated somewhere Piccolo hadn't kill anyone prior to the tournament and even had normal conversations with people.