Sad to see that some fans have not seen the old Dragonball

[Hellspawn28]

I seen people say that the first DB show is too old and boring to watch. I notice that with a lot of pre-2000's anime with younger fans.

[floofychan333]

Dragon Ball will always be my favourite. I still think Z is awesome but I miss comedy and world-building. I could probably watch/read Dragon Ball over and over again without skipping anything but I'm not sure if I could watch all of Z without skipping episodes.

[Cipher]

I seen people say that the first DB show is too old and boring to watch. I notice that with a lot of pre-2000's anime with younger fans.

I tend to see/hear this with older media in general. I've met people my age who have to be coaxed into watching movies made before 1990. It's baffling, but what're you gonna do.

[Hellspawn28]

I seen people on the web that the first DB series has the best plot lines and felt like it had discoveries compare to DBZ. I can agree since the first show did give us the best character moments. DBZ did too, but I think DB didn't take itself too seriously (Until Piccolo Daimao) which is why some people do like it over DB.

[ABED]

I seen people on the web that the first DB series has the best plot lines and felt like it had discoveries compare to DBZ. I can agree since the first show did give us the best character moments. DBZ did too, but I think DB didn't take itself too seriously (Until Piccolo Daimao) which is why some people do like it over DB.

I would argue it gets fairly serious in the Tenshinhan arc. Even assuming we don't count the Tenshinhan arc, the last two arcs are 1/3 of the series. Why are they skipping those episodes?

I tend to see/hear this with older media in general. I've met people my age who have to be coaxed into watching movies made before 1990. It's baffling, but what're you gonna do.

What? Oy. My guess is that these are the same people calling Fury Road an action movie masterpiece, because they haven't seen an action movie from the 80s like Die Hard or Lethal Weapon. Someone should remind these people that DBZ began in the 80s.

[Bullza]

Ehhh I do kinda find the original series to be quite boring in parts. The World Tournaments are a lot of fun....everything in-between....yeah I'd say it's a little boring. The Pilaf saga wasn't particularly great, it started well but then it became kinda dull. The Red Ribbon Army saga was hit and miss and the Piccolo saga felt like one of those standard Toei DBZ movies but if one were stretched out into a full length saga.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I seen people say that the first DB show is too old and boring to watch. I notice that with a lot of pre-2000's anime with younger fans.

Honestly, the anime adaptation could have been a lot better. I can definitely see why some have a hard time with it. I usually recommend the comics for casual fans who want to know what happened in the pre-Z era.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I seen people say that the first DB show is too old and boring to watch. I notice that with a lot of pre-2000's anime with younger fans.

I tend to see/hear this with older media in general. I've met people my age who have to be coaxed into watching movies made before 1990. It's baffling, but what're you gonna do.

I love old movies, as long as they're made well. But to be quite honest, the pacing of the older Dragon Ball Anime is... wonky? It's strange actually, because I can't put my finger on exactly what the problem is, but it seems to drag on and on and on, even though most things actually last much shorter than in DBZ.

Where it especially fails (with a few exceptions) is the filler, which is about as interesting as the early parts of GT.

All that being said, I love early Dragon Ball, and I especially love the manga's depiction of it.

[nickzambuto]

I seen people say that the first DB show is too old and boring to watch. I notice that with a lot of pre-2000's anime with younger fans.

I tend to see/hear this with older media in general. I've met people my age who have to be coaxed into watching movies made before 1990. It's baffling, but what're you gonna do.

I love old movies, as long as they're made well. But to be quite honest, the pacing of the older Dragon Ball Anime is... wonky? It's strange actually, because I can't put my finger on exactly what the problem is, but it seems to drag on and on and on, even though most things actually last much shorter than in DBZ.

Where it especially fails (with a few exceptions) is the filler, which is about as interesting as the early parts of GT.

All that being said, I love early Dragon Ball, and I especially love the manga's depiction of it.

Ooh. That's the ultimate insult...

[ABED]

Ehhh I do kinda find the original series to be quite boring in parts. The World Tournaments are a lot of fun....everything in-between....yeah I'd say it's a little boring. The Pilaf saga wasn't particularly great, it started well but then it became kinda dull. The Red Ribbon Army saga was hit and miss and the Piccolo saga felt like one of those standard Toei DBZ movies but if one were stretched out into a full length saga.

How? And how is it any different from the Freeza arc which is over 3 times as long? The Buu arc is nearly 5 times as long and that really feels stretched out.

[Bullza]

How? And how is it any different from the Freeza arc which is over 3 times as long? The Buu arc is nearly 5 times as long and that really feels stretched out.

They were a lot more interesting and exciting and more seemed to be going on.

The King Piccolo saga was just really straight forward. King Piccolo shows up, kills a few characters, wishes for youth, quickly overthrows the King, Goku drinks some water, there's a decent fight and then Piccolo dies. That's it, there's not really all that much to it.

Piccolo was generic. The whole arc was pretty short and it didn't really have the time to build itself up in the same way. It's all just very forgettable. It gets props for starting what would become a successful template for the series and even anime in general but it was just a barebones versions of it.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

How? And how is it any different from the Freeza arc which is over 3 times as long? The Buu arc is nearly 5 times as long and that really feels stretched out.

They were a lot more interesting and exciting and more seemed to be going on.

The King Piccolo saga was just really straight forward. King Piccolo shows up, kills a few characters, wishes for youth, quickly overthrows the King, Goku drinks some water, there's a decent fight and then Piccolo dies. That's it, there's not really all that much to it.

Piccolo was generic. The whole arc was pretty short and it didn't really have the time to build itself up in the same way. It's all just very forgettable. It gets props for starting what would become a successful template for the series and even anime in general but it was just a barebones versions of it.

I get where you're coming from, but that kind of villain was brand new to DB at the time. If you viewed it in the correct order (Pilaf to Boo) like I did my first time watching all the way through, it's a lot more memorable.

[ABED]

They were a lot more interesting and exciting and more seemed to be going on.

The King Piccolo saga was just really straight forward. King Piccolo shows up, kills a few characters, wishes for youth, quickly overthrows the King, Goku drinks some water, there's a decent fight and then Piccolo dies. That's it, there's not really all that much to it.

Piccolo was generic. The whole arc was pretty short and it didn't really have the time to build itself up in the same way. It's all just very forgettable. It gets props for starting what would become a successful template for the series and even anime in general but it was just a barebones versions of it.

I might give you the Freeza arc, with Vegeta changing sides, but most arcs are not plot heavy and are fairly straight forward. The Buu arc is tediously long. The Piccolo Daimao arc is straightforward, but that's why it's on the short side, but it builds itself up well with plenty of standout moments and a great new character in Yajirobe. I like the barebones version of it. Keep it simple stupid - great advice, hurts my feelings every time.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

They were a lot more interesting and exciting and more seemed to be going on.

The King Piccolo saga was just really straight forward. King Piccolo shows up, kills a few characters, wishes for youth, quickly overthrows the King, Goku drinks some water, there's a decent fight and then Piccolo dies. That's it, there's not really all that much to it.

Piccolo was generic. The whole arc was pretty short and it didn't really have the time to build itself up in the same way. It's all just very forgettable. It gets props for starting what would become a successful template for the series and even anime in general but it was just a barebones versions of it.

I might give you the Freeza arc, with Vegeta changing sides, but most arcs are not plot heavy and are fairly straight forward. The Buu arc is tediously long. The Piccolo Daimao arc is straightforward, but that's why it's on the short side, but it builds itself up well with plenty of standout moments and a great new character in Yajirobe. I like the barebones version of it. Keep it simple stupid - great advice, hurts my feelings every time.

Arguably, the stupid simple is what gives Dragon Ball such a charm. It advances characters so well using only simple plot devices.

[Bullza]

I get where you're coming from, but that kind of villain was brand new to DB at the time. If you viewed it in the correct order (Pilaf to Boo) like I did my first time watching all the way through, it's a lot more memorable.

That's probably very true, I saw Dragon Ball Z first which is why I don't find it so memorable. For fans who haven't seen the original Dragon Ball like this thread is about I can see them having a similar problem I have with it.

I might give you the Freeza arc, with Vegeta changing sides, but most arcs are not plot heavy and are fairly straight forward.

They're not plot heavy but they're not too straight forward, there's usually enough interesting things going on that makes it fun. Like the Frieza arc

- It involved the characters travelling into outer space and then to another world
- We met all the different alien races
- We were introduced to the Frieza force and there were a lot of different villains involved there.
- There was the whole three way race of who was going to get the Dragon Balls first between the Eartlings, Vegeta and Frieza
- Vegeta being forced to team up with the good guys
- The anxious wait for Goku.
- All the fights with Frieza building up to the big fight involving Goku
- Super Saiyan
- Them battling on a planet minutes from being destroyed and wondering who was going to win and if Goku wins is he going to get off the planet etc.

The King Piccolo saga was only two and a half volumes long and about a third of that was the final fight so it's not really allowing much time to set anything up. Piccolo was just an evil demon who wanted to take over the world, he quickly did and then he quickly died. Nobody else fought him unlike all the other villains. Nobody else except Goku did much of anything. Half the cast spent the whole saga idling at Roshi's house.

Probably great for the time because it was the first time but not much particulary stands out compared to the other sagas now. He shows up, beats Goku, Goku drinks some water, they fight again, Goku wins, the end. It's the general Toei movie plot formula.

[ABED]

The Saiyan arc is very straight forward. There's some exposition upfront about Goku's alien origins, but that's still very straight forward. I already admitted the Freeza arc is more complex due to changing aliances, but there being multiple races and different villains isn't complex.

The King Piccolo saga was only two and a half volumes long and about a third of that was the final fight so it's not really allowing much time to set anything up.
It's 21 episodes, and three of them are the final fight. That's more than enough time to set everything up and then pay it off, especially given how it's a very simple story of revenge. Muten Roshi knew not to fight him and Tenshinhan was trying to. It makes complete sense that no one else would fight Piccolo. And of course most of the other characters are sitting around Roshi's house. Yamcha's leg is broken, and what is Bulma going to do?

I still don't know what you mean nothing stands out. Piccolo stands out, his minions stand out, him taking over the world stands out, and the fight is one of the best end fights. It's brutal and doesn't overstay its welcome. How can you say nothing stands out and yet point to stand out moments? And do you not realize that DBZ follows a similar formula. Goku gets taken out somehow, everyone waits for Goku, some power up occurs, and Goku (usually) wins, the end. It happens twice in the Freeza arc.

And there are numerous things that happen in the Piccolo arc that are interesting and fun. Meeting Yajirobe, Goku losing to and then defeating Tambourine, getting the crap kicked out of him by Piccolo. Piccolo being the first to successfully take over the world. Goku getting the water was much better in the anime.

[Bullza]

The Saiyan arc is very straight forward.

It's even more straightforward but it's more exciting. Vegeta was a better villain, Nappa was a better side villain. Gohan, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu and Piccolo all to fight aswell, the fights were bigger and better. Goku's power boost was more interesting than drinking water and him showing up in the nick of time was better done.

It's 21 episodes, and three of them are the final fight.

Well I was referring to the whole battle from when Tien started fighting Cymbal. Plus some of that 21 was filler.

It makes complete sense that no one else would fight Piccolo. And of course most of the other characters are sitting around Roshi's house. Yamcha's leg is broken, and what is Bulma going to do?

Yeah but it still made it kinda boring. Roshi could have at least fought Piccolo. Tien could have done more than be quickly stomped by a henchmen who came out of nowhere. Yajirobe could have done more.

It's another advantage these latter sagas had because they started to have more characters available to take part.

It's brutal and doesn't overstay its welcome. How can you say nothing stands out and yet point to stand out moments?

I wouldn't particularly say that Piccolo and his minions stood out anymore or less than most of Toeis movies villains and minions. He had more screentime but he was mostly just as generic, he did kill a couple of characters I suppose.

And do you not realize that DBZ follows a similar formula

Yeah I'm saying that DBZ just drastically improved on that formula. The fights were better, the stakes were bigger, far more characters got involved, the villains became more memorable, the side villains became more interesting, the methods of powering up or the training were done better, the build up, transformations, flashy attacks, outer space, time travel, other dimensions etc.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The Saiyan arc is very straight forward.

It's even more straightforward but it's more exciting. Vegeta was a better villain, Nappa was a better side villain. Gohan, Krillin, Tien, Yamcha, Chiaotzu and Piccolo all to fight aswell, the fights were bigger and better. Goku's power boost was more interesting than drinking water and him showing up in the nick of time was better done.

It's 21 episodes, and three of them are the final fight.

Well I was referring to the whole battle from when Tien started fighting Cymbal. Plus some of that 21 was filler.

It makes complete sense that no one else would fight Piccolo. And of course most of the other characters are sitting around Roshi's house. Yamcha's leg is broken, and what is Bulma going to do?

Yeah but it still made it kinda boring. Roshi could have at least fought Piccolo. Tien could have done more than be quickly stomped by a henchmen who came out of nowhere. Yajirobe could have done more.

It's another advantage these latter sagas had because they started to have more characters available to take part.

It's brutal and doesn't overstay its welcome. How can you say nothing stands out and yet point to stand out moments?

I wouldn't particularly say that Piccolo and his minions stood out anymore or less than most of Toeis movies villains and minions. He had more screentime but he was mostly just as generic, he did kill a couple of characters I suppose.

And do you not realize that DBZ follows a similar formula

Yeah I'm saying that DBZ just drastically improved on that formula. The fights were better, the stakes were bigger, far more characters got involved, the villains became more memorable, the side villains became more interesting, the methods of powering up or the training were done better, the build up, transformations, flashy attacks, outer space, time travel, other dimensions etc.

Totally agree with most of the sentiments here. I only have 2 short responses

Roshi did kind of fight Piccolo, he used Mafuba, but failed.

The henchmen were memorable mostly because of Kuririn's death, which then became a catalyst for Goku's "journey" to kill Piccolo, short lived as it was.

Lastly, I feel like I need to give an excuse for this arc, because Toriyama makes it clear that he was pretty sick with Flu during the period that he was writing the Piccolo Daimao Arc, and even acknowledged that the whole chapter with the Holy Water was weak storytelling.

[ABED]

Being a better villain doesn't mean Piccolo is a bad villain. Freeza's better than Vegeta, but that doesn't Vegeta's terrible. And Yamcha, Chaozu, and several others just get slaughtered. Tenshinhan does fight in the Piccolo arc.

Well I was referring to the whole battle from when Tien started fighting Cymbal. Plus some of that 21 was filler.

Okay then, 6. That gives 12 episodes to build, that's PLENTY. You have several movies worth of build in the time it takes to get to the final showdown. Because it's short, that's a good rationale for not everyone to join in, especially since Kuririn is dead, Yamcha's injured, Chaozu was killed instantly. Tenshinhan and Roshi try to fight Piccolo and their minions. The characters are given their moments in the sun more than you think. Very little of those 21 episodes are pure filler.

The power up I was referring to wasn't limited to the Saiyan arc

Yeah I'm saying that DBZ just drastically improved on that formula.

Only in that it gives it time to execute it. The fights were better because they had time, the stakes were not any bigger, they were always the same - the world and the main characters in peril, more characters getting involved doesn't make it better. Everything you mentioned is mostly a function of giving things time to breathe, so no, it didn't improve on the formula.

even acknowledged that the whole chapter with the Holy Water was weak storytelling.

It's actually enjoyable in the anime because Goku has to earn it.

Yeah but it still made it kinda boring. Roshi could have at least fought Piccolo. Tien could have done more than be quickly stomped by a henchmen who came out of nowhere. Yajirobe could have done more.

No Roshi couldn't have. No, that henchman didn't "come out of nowhere" (This phrase and the use of the word "random" are amongst the most overused and misused terms I see on the net), and Yajoribe did plenty. He killed Drum, he helped Goku get to Karin Tower, and saved his life at the end.

It's another advantage these latter sagas had because they started to have more characters available to take part.

Which doesn't make it necessarily better. It's not the quantity, it's the quality. The characters are used far better in the Piccolo arc than they are in the Cyborg or Buu arcs.

[Bullza]

Being a better villain doesn't mean Piccolo is a bad villain.

He's not a bad villain but he's not a good villain either. He's just a generic one, easily the worst of all the series main villains and more on par with the Toei movie villains than the other main villains.

Only in that it gives it time to execute it.

Well my point is that the arc isn't as good or as memorable as those seen in DBZ and that it was so short was one of the main reasons why. I'm not going to excuse that because it's not like it had to be that short.

The planet wasn't on the line so there's the same degree of tension, very few characters were involved, no flashy transformations, no big "Final Flash scene", the villains death wasn't bad but not as good as how Cell or Buu were finished off.

It was a similar lenght to the Saiyan Saga in the manga but the latter was better because it had all those things.

No Roshi couldn't have.

Of course he could, characters have fought people they know they can't beat all the time. There's no reason Roshi and Piccolo couldn't have had an entertaining fight before Roshi was forced to use the mafuba. He shows up, he does the attack, he misses and he dies.

Which doesn't make it necessarily better. It's not the quantity, it's the quality. The characters are used far better in the Piccolo arc than they are in the Cyborg or Buu arcs.

Well between the likes of Piccolo Jr, Gohan, Vegeta and Trunks they had the quality advantage too. They're all better characters than Yajirobe or Tien. Most the characters did next to nothing in the Piccolo saga.

Yamcha, Launch, Oolong, Put and Bulma did nothing. Krillin was dead from the start so he did nothing. Chiaotzu did nothing except tag along then get blown up. Aside from the mafuba Roshi did nothing and died half way through.

Aside from Goku, Tien and Yajirobe did a little bit and that's about it.