Could kid Goten and Trunks beat Namek-era Freeza?

[sintzu]

Currently yes, if the writers wanted Yamcha to beat him he'd be able to.

But if we're taking Z's power levels only into account then probably not.

1- yes they have Ssj but their base wasn't as strong as Goku's during that time so even with the 50× boost it wouldn't be enough to overpower Freeza's 100% power.

2- You could say that if they could give #18 a run for her $$$ then surely they'd be able to handle Freeza and that's a good point on the surface but they fought #18 at a tournament so she wasn't trying to kill them, if she wanted to they'd be dead before they knew what hit them.

3- Let's assume that the above is wrong and they are stronger than him, their lack of field experience would give Freeza a major edge over them.

[Ash57]

Today i learned that a power level below Freeza can make Android 18 fear for her life with a SUPRESSED ki blast

SSJ Goten and Trunks >> Piccolo

[TheUltimateNinja]

Today i learned that a power level below Freeza can make Android 18 fear for her life with a SUPRESSED ki blast

SSJ Goten and Trunks >> Piccolo

This is obviously referring to their potential to become much more powerful if they were given time to train seriously, there's nothing to imply they were already above Piccolo Pre-RoSAT.

[ahill1]

Each of them could easily defeat 100% Freeza with their base power.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Each of them could easily defeat 100% Freeza with their base power.

No way, even BoG Goku's base was below Frieza, there's no chance the kids who are much weaker could do anything to Frieza.

[Darkprince410]

Today i learned that a power level below Freeza can make Android 18 fear for her life with a SUPRESSED ki blast

SSJ Goten and Trunks >> Piccolo

This is obviously referring to their potential to become much more powerful if they were given time to train seriously, there's nothing to imply they were already above Piccolo Pre-RoSAT.

Unless you think that Buu arc Gohan was also weaker than Piccolo, then the Daizenshuu would indicate that they were stronger than Piccolo, given that it establishes Goten and Gohan being of equal strength.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Today i learned that a power level below Freeza can make Android 18 fear for her life with a SUPRESSED ki blast

SSJ Goten and Trunks >> Piccolo

This is obviously referring to their potential to become much more powerful if they were given time to train seriously, there's nothing to imply they were already above Piccolo Pre-RoSAT.

Unless you think that Buu arc Gohan was also weaker than Piccolo, then the Daizenshuu would indicate that they were stronger than Piccolo, given that it establishes Goten and Gohan being of equal strength.

I think Piccolo's pretty close to Buu Arc SSJ Gohan in terms of power, Gohan was weaker than he was at the Cell Games and Piccolo was already pretty powerful back then being able to stand up to a Cell Jr. and all, with 7 years of training he should be able to match a weaker Gohan. Also I disagree with Goten being equal to Gohan Pre-RoSAT, he was able to keep Gohan on his toes but Gohan still had a clear advantage in their training, I'd place him at around 60% of Gohan.

[Ash57]

Each of them could easily defeat 100% Freeza with their base power.

No way, even BoG Goku's base was below Frieza, there's no chance the kids who are much weaker could do anything to Frieza.

Not really, on Revival of F it is implied by Tagoma that Base Gohan was the greatest threat to their army, before it was known he could transform into SSJ, which heavily implies that Base Gohan was even stronger than Piccolo, who can atomize Freeza with less than a tenth of his power at this point in the series. Since Gohan lost his ultimate power-up and returned to his Boo arc power on RoF, then it means Base Saiyans being below Freeza is an impossibility and probably a contradiction.

Since Goten and Trunks are not far off from Teen Gohan even before the RoSaT, and are implied to have powered up decently after it, Goten and Trunks both atomizing Freeza without effort in their base forms is not unlkely. Their Super Saiyan forms are also implied to be considerably stronger than Piccolo, since he states in the manga that the squirts are the only hope the Earth has left against Boo, before Fusion is mentioned by Goku.

I think Piccolo's pretty close to Buu Arc SSJ Gohan in terms of power, Gohan was weaker than he was at the Cell Games and Piccolo was already pretty powerful back then being able to stand up to a Cell Jr. and all, with 7 years of training he should be able to match a weaker Gohan. Also I disagree with Goten being equal to Gohan Pre-RoSAT, he was able to keep Gohan on his toes but Gohan still had a clear advantage in their training, I'd place him at around 60% of Gohan.

Gohan had no "clear advantage" against Goten. They were both fighting almost evenly, and Gohan's face heavily suggests that he couldn't beat Goten with ease the way he was in the moment, which is heavily unlikely if Gohan had such a huge lead on his younger brother. It is also stated that if Goten trained, he could surpass Gohan soon, which implies a small gap between them.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Each of them could easily defeat 100% Freeza with their base power.

No way, even BoG Goku's base was below Frieza, there's no chance the kids who are much weaker could do anything to Frieza.

Not really, on Revival of F it is implied by Tagoma that Base Gohan was the greatest threat to their army, before it was known he could transform into SSJ, which heavily implies that Base Gohan was even stronger than Piccolo, who can atomize Freeza with less than a tenth of his power at this point in the series. Since Gohan lost his ultimate power-up and returned to his Boo arc power on RoF, then it means Base Saiyans being below Freeza is an impossibility and probably a contradiction.

Since Goten and Trunks are not far off from Teen Gohan even before the RoSaT, and are implied to have powered up decently after it, Goten and Trunks both atomizing Freeza without effort in their base forms is not unlkely. Their Super Saiyan forms are also implied to be considerably stronger than Piccolo, since he states in the manga that the squirts are the only hope the Earth has left against Boo, before Fusion is mentioned by Goku.

I think Piccolo's pretty close to Buu Arc SSJ Gohan in terms of power, Gohan was weaker than he was at the Cell Games and Piccolo was already pretty powerful back then being able to stand up to a Cell Jr. and all, with 7 years of training he should be able to match a weaker Gohan. Also I disagree with Goten being equal to Gohan Pre-RoSAT, he was able to keep Gohan on his toes but Gohan still had a clear advantage in their training, I'd place him at around 60% of Gohan.

Gohan had no "clear advantage" against Goten. They were both fighting almost evenly, and Gohan's face heavily suggests that he couldn't beat Goten with ease the way he was in the moment, which is heavily unlikely if Gohan had such a huge lead on his younger brother. It is also stated that if Goten trained, he could surpass Gohan soon, which implies a small gap between them.

They're not going to fight all out in a sparring session, in a serious all out fight Gohan could kill Goten very quickly. Also, the Goten surpassing Gohan thing is most likely a reference to young half-saiyans being able to gain power extremely fast, when Gohan was around Goten's age he went from a few thousand to several hundreds of thousands in a matter of weeks so with that kind of growth rate even if Goten was at 60% of Gohan he could close the gap very quickly through training. This kinda leads me to wonder what would happen if Old Kai unlocked Goten's potential back then and created Ultimate Goten.

[Ash57]

No way, even BoG Goku's base was below Frieza, there's no chance the kids who are much weaker could do anything to Frieza.

Not really, on Revival of F it is implied by Tagoma that Base Gohan was the greatest threat to their army, before it was known he could transform into SSJ, which heavily implies that Base Gohan was even stronger than Piccolo, who can atomize Freeza with less than a tenth of his power at this point in the series. Since Gohan lost his ultimate power-up and returned to his Boo arc power on RoF, then it means Base Saiyans being below Freeza is an impossibility and probably a contradiction.

Since Goten and Trunks are not far off from Teen Gohan even before the RoSaT, and are implied to have powered up decently after it, Goten and Trunks both atomizing Freeza without effort in their base forms is not unlkely. Their Super Saiyan forms are also implied to be considerably stronger than Piccolo, since he states in the manga that the squirts are the only hope the Earth has left against Boo, before Fusion is mentioned by Goku.

I think Piccolo's pretty close to Buu Arc SSJ Gohan in terms of power, Gohan was weaker than he was at the Cell Games and Piccolo was already pretty powerful back then being able to stand up to a Cell Jr. and all, with 7 years of training he should be able to match a weaker Gohan. Also I disagree with Goten being equal to Gohan Pre-RoSAT, he was able to keep Gohan on his toes but Gohan still had a clear advantage in their training, I'd place him at around 60% of Gohan.

Gohan had no "clear advantage" against Goten. They were both fighting almost evenly, and Gohan's face heavily suggests that he couldn't beat Goten with ease the way he was in the moment, which is heavily unlikely if Gohan had such a huge lead on his younger brother. It is also stated that if Goten trained, he could surpass Gohan soon, which implies a small gap between them.

They're not going to fight all out in a sparring session, in a serious all out fight Gohan could kill Goten very quickly. Also, the Goten surpassing Gohan thing is most likely a reference to young half-saiyans being able to gain power extremely fast, when Gohan was around Goten's age he went from a few thousand to several hundreds of thousands in a matter of weeks so with that kind of growth rate even if Goten was at 60% of Gohan he could close the gap very quickly through training. This kinda leads me to wonder what would happen if Old Kai unlocked Goten's potential back then and created Ultimate Goten.

What's the proof Gohan wasn't going all-out? His expression and powered-up aura heavily suggests otherwise. He was clearly having a lot of trouble with his younger brother, which shouldn't be the cause if he had a 40% lead on hi✓.

[Perfectionist-Cell]

Correct me if i am wrong but Goten and Trunks had difficulty fighting Abo and Cado who are equal to first form Frieza.

Another Scene Tired Motivated Ssj Trunks hit a Tired Ssj Vegeta. Gohan was not prepared for Gotens strength at all. He clearly under estimated his brother. Both of them put together had difficulty beating 18. Which means...

They go from Frieza tier -> FPSSJ Tier -> Normal Ssj Tier.

Inconsistency in power indeed.

[Analytic]

They're not going to fight all out in a sparring session, in a serious all out fight Gohan could kill Goten very quickly.

Do you have anything to actually back that up?

Gohan was not prepared for Gotens strength at all. He clearly under estimated his brother.

In their second sparring session, Gohan was fully aware of Goten's strength, and still had immense difficulty blocking Goten's blows and was still gritting his teeth and sweating profusely. Goten is very clearly at a level where Gohan can't handle him easily.

Both of them put together had difficulty beating 18.

In base form they had difficulty. As Super Saiyans, they never fought her. Trunks merely shot a suppressed Ki blast that made her fear for her life.

[The Monkey King]

Either one would easily obliterate Freeza by going SSJ.

[Lord Beerus]

Not without their Super Saiyan forms, they couldn't. As the whole Freeza > Base Saiyans statement from Battle Of Gods still remains not contradicted.

[Perfectionist-Cell]

They're not going to fight all out in a sparring session, in a serious all out fight Gohan could kill Goten very quickly.

Do you have anything to actually back that up?

Gohan was not prepared for Gotens strength at all. He clearly under estimated his brother.

In their second sparring session, Gohan was fully aware of Goten's strength, and still had immense difficulty blocking Goten's blows and was still gritting his teeth and sweating profusely. Goten is very clearly at a level where Gohan can't handle him easily.

Both of them put together had difficulty beating 18.

In base form they had difficulty. As Super Saiyans, they never fought her. Trunks merely shot a suppressed Ki blast that made her fear for her life.

Feared for her life? I doubt that. Gohan has not trained for 7 years his fighting style would be very sloppy. Goku even said it himself when he was fighting Dabura. You are right though Gohan did know what he was capable of the second round. I forgot to add didn't they fight again and Gohan beat him without any difficulty?

[Ash57]

Uh....nope, unless this is some anime filler i'm not aware of. And yes, they made #18 fear for her life with that blast, and mind you, it was a SUPPRESSED ki blast.

[ahill1]

No way, even BoG Goku's base was below Frieza, there's no chance the kids who are much weaker could do anything to Frieza.

I don't take into account BoG or any of these new materials when talking about the manga. In the Boo saga there's enough evidence that the base Saiyans are far above Freeza.

[Darkprince410]

No way, even BoG Goku's base was below Frieza, there's no chance the kids who are much weaker could do anything to Frieza.

I don't take into account BoG or any of these new materials when talking about the manga. In the Boo saga there's enough evidence that the base Saiyans are far above Freeza.

There really isn't though, at least nothing that can't be readily countered in one form or another.

[Ash57]

No way, even BoG Goku's base was below Frieza, there's no chance the kids who are much weaker could do anything to Frieza.

I don't take into account BoG or any of these new materials when talking about the manga. In the Boo saga there's enough evidence that the base Saiyans are far above Freeza.

There really isn't though, at least nothing that can't be readily countered in one form or another.

Chapter: 452 (DBZ 258), P1.4-5
Context: after Goku kills Yakon
Kaioshin: “S-so that’s why these 3 have such composure...In a pinch, they can put forth tremendous power, like Son Goku displayed momentarily…Wh…what a completely unbelievable fact…that I, Kaioshin, should be thrown into a panic by humans of the lower world…”

A Kaioshin shouldn't be thrown into panic by guys who were weaker than a person he could one-shot(Freeza)

There is also this evidence, which i put together a few hours ago;

Not really, on Revival of F it is implied by Tagoma that Base Gohan was the greatest threat to their army, before it was known he could transform into SSJ, which heavily implies that Base Gohan was even stronger than Piccolo, who can atomize Freeza with less than a tenth of his power at this point in the series. Since Gohan lost his ultimate power-up and returned to his Boo arc power on RoF, then it means Base Saiyans being below Freeza is an impossibility and probably a contradiction.

This proves that either;
1) Beerus was severely overestimating what Freeza was capable of, which is supported by the fact that he stated that "defeating Freeza was all that you(talking about Super Saiyan Goku) could accomplish" even though Goku at this point can take out foes who are dozens of times stronger than Freeza. And don't say that Beerus had nobody else to compare Goku to, because he had East Kaioshin, who was faaar above Freeza.
2) Beerus didn't know what Freeza could do at his full power
3) The statement was retconned.

Which means Base Saiyans being weaker than Freeza is no longer a fact.

[Kaboom]

At best, the stuff from the Majin Boo arc only implies that the base Saiyans are above the likes of Eighteen, Piccolo, and Kaioshin, and thus also Freeza. They don't measure up against such a straightforward and direct power statement like the one from Beerus, and in light of it can be easily interpreted in other ways.

Also, Beerus' statement was about Goku, and Gohan is not Goku. Despite acting like Ultimate Gohan's superiority to Goku in the Boo arc never happened, these modern Toei productions still seem to know on some level that Gohan is supposed to be significantly stronger than usual even without transforming. All that either version of it tells us is that Gohan no longer has access to his "full power," and needs to use Super Saiyan instead — Claiming that he's completely lost his Boo-arc improvement and returned to his pre-ultimate power level and structure is a big assumption.

Besides, I've seen the episode too. Tagoma shot Gohan and made the "strongest enemy" comment as Gohan was powering up, either to go Super Saiyan or to simply stop heavily restraining himself like he and all the other heroes were up to that point. It's tricky to use that entire chunk of the arc for any power-related argument when all the heroes were purposely using something less than their full power, especially the extra-strong Gohan and Piccolo.

Any way you slice it, "base" Gohan's confusing power placement in the Super adaptation of Freeza's return has no bearing on base Goku's power placement in Battle of Gods or its own Super adaptation. Heck, if Toei's writers for Super were so anxious to squash the notion of "base Saiyans < Freeza," why would they keep Beerus' line for Super in the first place? Why not replace it with something about Goku's surface-level appearance instead?

Despite how much some fans want it to be, Beerus' assessment of base Goku's strength is not contradictory to anything before or after its first utterance in Battle of Gods.