"Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by ChronoTwigger » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:25 pm

ABED wrote:She's not a robot. She's organic. I believe this was answered in the show. Happy now?
Well... no.
There's nothing like "organic androids".
Androids are human shaped robots. Maybe a cyborg could be organic. Androids are NEVER organic by definition.
My point was to have you notice how no one NO ONE care who are Huey Dewey and Louie parents but KIDS DOESN'T CARE. It's a kid show. Sons and daughters are nominal roles. And so even a robot can have kids and no one seems to care.
If they can reproduce are not androids at all, but cyborgs.
No kid ask himself how possible is to HAVE SEX with a woman and no kiss her. Most of them never kissed any or doesn't know how to reproduce.
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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:26 pm

ABED wrote:No, but at least be consistent. If Goku is asexual, then no kissing makes sense. If he has slept with his wife, the idea that he's NEVER kissed her goes too far for the sake of a joke. It makes it less funny because it doesn't feel real even within the realm of the fictional world. Even in the world as out there as the one Toriyama created, Goku not kissing, but procreating is too far for the sake of a joke.
I believe ABED is correct. I've almost gotten my Bachelor's in Psychology, and from what I understand...the kind of person who would have sex with their wife, but NEVER kiss them throughout 20+ years of marriage...is typically the kind of person who would go out of their way to push their loved ones away as much as possible. It'd be a trait you'd expect more from Android Saga Vegeta, not someone like Goku.

Like, those are the sorts of people who would literally tell their partner "I don't want any of that lovey-dovey crap while we're in bed; I want the lights off, I don't want you looking at me, and I don't want our sexual intercourse to last any longer than 5 minutes. If you can't abide by that, I'm sleeping in the other room" (yes; there are actually people like that. You'd be surprised the kind of clients therapists meet on a daily basis). Such a thing isn't really characteristic of someone like Goku; if nothing else, he'd be too nice to say no to Chi-Chi requesting a kiss from him.

...

Or at least, that's the way it is in America. One of the main weaknesses we psychologists suffer from is that we have trouble looking at things from other cultural perspectives. We've done our best to be better about that, but that's still a significant challenge.
Last edited by Fionordequester on Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by Helios518 » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:28 pm

ChronoTwigger wrote:
ABED wrote:
Anime Kitten wrote: Are you trying to claim that Goku should be normal? :P
No, but at least be consistent. If Goku is asexual, then no kissing makes sense. If he has slept with his wife, the idea that he's NEVER kissed her goes too far for the sake of a joke. It makes it less funny because it doesn't feel real even within the realm of the fictional world. Even in the world as out there as the one Toriyama created, Goku not kissing, but procreating is too far for the sake of a joke.
Now explain me how an android can have childs and I'll be happy.
Android 18 isn't an android (dub change), she's a cyborg.
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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:43 pm

ChronoTwigger wrote:Well... no.
There's nothing like "organic androids".
Androids are human shaped robots. Maybe a cyborg could be organic. Androids are NEVER organic by definition.
My point was to have you notice how no one NO ONE care who are Huey Dewey and Louie parents but KIDS DOESN'T CARE. It's a kid show. Sons and daughters are nominal roles. And so even a robot can have kids and no one seems to care.
If they can reproduce are not androids at all, but cyborgs.
No kid ask himself how possible is to HAVE SEX with a woman and no kiss her. Most of them never kissed any or doesn't know how to reproduce.
That's because they AREN'T androids. They ARE cyborgs. The series makes that abundantly clear, that they were humans who were upgraded mostly biologically but with some cybernetic components. That's the entire reason Cell can absorb them. So a plot point that is heavily delved into is not exactly a good example to use for your argument of the details not mattering.

As for the topic at hand... I honestly don't see the big deal, and I'm someone who has been regularly complaining about Goku's characterization in Super. But this seems plausibly enough in character to me. And it seems the people who seem to believe kissing is a necessary component for romance have never stopped to think that kissing is not a ubiquitous gesture. While scientists do believe there might be an instinctual compulsion to kiss, the fact of the matter is that various cultures use and have used kissing for various purposes, and the idea of kissing as a form of expressing romantic love in Western culture is a fairly recent development. So there is no reason to believe that your (general "your") own preconceptions of what constitutes romance are biologically ingrained. In fact, there's plenty of reason to believe the opposite. In other words, it's a social construct. And if "making out" is a concept Goku was never introduced to, there's no reason to assume he would simply pick it up out of nowhere. It also doesn't in any way indicate that he is incapable of demonstrating affection in his own way. The argument that he is withholding affection or remaining emotionally closed off because he doesn't kiss presupposes that he understands why someone would kiss, and the scene in question makes it obvious that that is simply not the case.

Obviously, the bigger question, as others have brought up, is how he would have avoided the idea for so long if Chichi was an influence. And that is a bit of a head scratcher. But maybe sex (and by consequence, children) was a higher priority, and that took so much effort that Chichi just decided to quit while she was ahead.
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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:07 am

ChronoTwigger wrote:
ABED wrote:
Anime Kitten wrote: Are you trying to claim that Goku should be normal? :P
No, but at least be consistent. If Goku is asexual, then no kissing makes sense. If he has slept with his wife, the idea that he's NEVER kissed her goes too far for the sake of a joke. It makes it less funny because it doesn't feel real even within the realm of the fictional world. Even in the world as out there as the one Toriyama created, Goku not kissing, but procreating is too far for the sake of a joke.
Now explain me how an android can have childs and I'll be happy.
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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:16 am

Fionordequester wrote:
ABED wrote:No, but at least be consistent. If Goku is asexual, then no kissing makes sense. If he has slept with his wife, the idea that he's NEVER kissed her goes too far for the sake of a joke. It makes it less funny because it doesn't feel real even within the realm of the fictional world. Even in the world as out there as the one Toriyama created, Goku not kissing, but procreating is too far for the sake of a joke.
I believe ABED is correct. I've almost gotten my Bachelor's in Psychology, and from what I understand...the kind of person who would have sex with their wife, but NEVER kiss them throughout 20+ years of marriage...is typically the kind of person who would go out of their way to push their loved ones away as much as possible. It'd be a trait you'd expect more from Android Saga Vegeta, not someone like Goku.

Like, those are the sorts of people who would literally tell their partner "I don't want any of that lovey-dovey crap while we're in bed; I want the lights off, I don't want you looking at me, and I don't want our sexual intercourse to last any longer than 5 minutes. If you can't abide by that, I'm sleeping in the other room" (yes; there are actually people like that. You'd be surprised the kind of clients therapists meet on a daily basis). Such a thing isn't really characteristic of someone like Goku; if nothing else, he'd be too nice to say no to Chi-Chi requesting a kiss from him.

...

Or at least, that's the way it is in America. One of the main weaknesses we psychologists suffer from is that we have trouble looking at things from other cultural perspectives. We've done our best to be better about that, but that's still a significant challenge.
Japanese fans complained about the scene too.
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by Fionordequester » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:36 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:As for the topic at hand... I honestly don't see the big deal, and I'm someone who has been regularly complaining about Goku's characterization in Super. But this seems plausibly enough in character to me. And it seems the people who seem to believe kissing is a necessary component for romance have never stopped to think that kissing is not a ubiquitous gesture. While scientists do believe there might be an instinctual compulsion to kiss, the fact of the matter is that various cultures use and have used kissing for various purposes, and the idea of kissing as a form of expressing romantic love in Western culture is a fairly recent development...
We're not talking about different cultures here, Gaffer Tape; we're talking about Japanese culture. And if DBZAOTA's post is any indication, kissing's just as important in Japan as it is in Western Culture; arguably more so, now that I've done a bit of research.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by NothiaBlue » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:52 am

I regard it as an unfunny joke that tries to mask itself as trivia, and I choose to go with the anime being so vague so that I can interpret it as "you gave her the senzu bean like that??". I did see someone break some of the manga version's down into "Goku knows what it is and kisses his wife, just in private; he was shocked at the public display of it." and I'll take that as well when/if I read into it more.

Tbh, my problem with it isn't that it's "dehumanizing" him, since I feel it's not the right word for it... My problem is what I think it should be taken as; Goku apparently doesn't know what he should know.

He's not a twelve-year-old boy who's fended for himself in the wilderness for years anymore- he's a man in his late 30s/early 40s who has been married for 2 decades and had 2 kids- that's the part I feel needs reiterating. He's been living with someone else for years and somehow he never learned what kissing is? He's never seen a movie? He's never consumed media? It falls flat because this is a super widespread thing that he must've caught a glimpse of at the very least, or something that Chi-Chi likely would have brought up.

What happened at his and Chi-Chi's wedding? I find it hard to believe that Chi-Chi didn't even go for a low budget wedding ceremony, or if not that, didn't even do a "Kiss your bride!" playful thing after they were legally married at wherever that happens if they really were too poor to have a wedding. I also find it very hard to believe that she didn't give him kisses in their daily life for the first 4-5 years of their marriage as well! There's two people in this marriage, why don't we get Chi-Chi's side of things?

I find issue with him not knowing what that is because it's one of those character regression/"Goku's not bright so he doesn't know what X is" jokes, and if X wasn't about kissing and anything else as normalized, more people would be criticizing it.

Plus I like Gochi, and I'd like it if I could find cute art/fic instead of this when searching for it. There's other issues, but i don't want to write too much for this.
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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by nite_jay » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:55 am

Fionordequester wrote:
Gaffer Tape wrote:As for the topic at hand... I honestly don't see the big deal, and I'm someone who has been regularly complaining about Goku's characterization in Super. But this seems plausibly enough in character to me. And it seems the people who seem to believe kissing is a necessary component for romance have never stopped to think that kissing is not a ubiquitous gesture. While scientists do believe there might be an instinctual compulsion to kiss, the fact of the matter is that various cultures use and have used kissing for various purposes, and the idea of kissing as a form of expressing romantic love in Western culture is a fairly recent development...
We're not talking about different cultures here, Gaffer Tape; we're talking about Japanese culture. And if DBZAOTA's post is any indication, kissing's just as important in Japan as it is in Western Culture; arguably more so, now that I've done a bit of research.
But is it Saiyan instinct as much as human? They were warriors, not humans. Goku also grew up alone in the woods until he was 12, and Chi Chi had a similar childhood. They weren't exposed to normal society for some of the most influential periods of their lives. So besides "normal reproduction instincts" I doubt kissing would be something they are used too.

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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:57 am

I swear, every week it's like "What new bullshit will the series try to introduce next?"

Was it worth it? Whoever the hell wrote this -- was it freaking worth it? Did that contribute anything to the story? No. Now we just have another stupid fact to show us how stupid Goku is in this stupid series. Good job.

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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by Steven Bloodriver » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:09 am

Unfunny trivia.

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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by Fionordequester » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:16 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:Was it worth it? Whoever the hell wrote this -- was it freaking worth it?
Yeah. I've been enjoying the series greatly once it got past the retreads. The Black arc is still awesome!
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by Chuquita » Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:25 am

Tomioka wrote #60, but I've learned the way it's setup storyboarders also get creative input so it could have been one of multiple people who came up with the gag (and it being in the manga blurs the whodunit even more.)
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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:15 am

Fionordequester wrote:
TheGreatness25 wrote:Was it worth it? Whoever the hell wrote this -- was it freaking worth it?
Yeah. I've been enjoying the series greatly once it got past the retreads. The Black arc is still awesome!
I meant whether this "Goku never kissed before har har" thing was worth it.

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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by Fionordequester » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:17 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:I meant whether this "Goku never kissed before har har" thing was worth it.
Oh that? Pfft, of course not. Wasn't even that funny.
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by DanielSSJ » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:23 am

It's a not very funny joke that is another contributor to the Super's flanderization of Goku's character. I could totally see Goku reacting like this back when he was a kid or even when he was 18, but it's ridiculous to me that Goku is apparently knowledgeable enough about sex that he can bribe the Elder Kaioshin with it in the Boo arc but doesn't understand the concept of kissing here. Especially if he's been married to such a gooey romantic like Chi Chi for as long as he has. On the whole, it feels like Super is regressing Goku back to his early Dragon Ball days in terms of intelligence and maturity for cheap laughs.
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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:34 am

Heh, GT physically regressed Goku's character and Super mentally regressed him.

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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:19 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:Heh, GT physically regressed Goku's character and Super mentally regressed him.
As someone who has a sibling in ICU, I needed a good laugh, thanks.
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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:26 am

Soppa Saia People wrote:As someone who has a sibling in ICU, I needed a good laugh, thanks.
I'm really sorry to hear that. I know that I'm just a poster on the internet in relation to you, but I really do hope everything will be okay. Only positive thought!

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Re: "Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

Post by Zephyr » Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:27 am

It's a mildy-chuckle-worthy, but ultimately forgettable, gag.

What's more funny than it, though, is the collective fandom panty-twisting over it. That's comedy gold.

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