"Goku never kissed": Do you take it as a joke or (un)funny trivia?

[TheGreatness25]

It might not be set in Japan, but the story is created in Japan by a Japanese person/people who was/were raised on Japanese culture, produced for Japanese people. Thus, obviously Japanese culture plays a huge role in the series, intentionally or not.

[nite_jay]

No. We're not talking about Japanese culture, for two reasons. One is that Dragon Ball does not take place in Japan.

How do you explain all the honoriffics then? Like "Goku-sa", "Son-kun", "Pan-chan", and "Kuririn-san"? PRE-TTY odd, don't you think? I mean, honoriffics aren't exclusive to Japan, but to have those EXACT honoriffics? And for that matter, why does everyone in DBZ's universe know Japanese? How is it that neither Raditz, Napppa, or Vegeta ever had trouble speaking the same language as Gohan, Piccolo, and the other Z-senshi? Why are there Kanji symbols on the various gi's that Goku and co. wear?

The "cultural differences" argument doesn't work when the DBZ universe is very clearly modeled off of Japan, with minor exceptions (like dinosaurs and talking animals).

Thats like saying why do people in Star Wars speak english? It's so the viewer can go along with the story. Nobody wants to see/ read a manga with subtitles for an alien language the whole time.

The Dragon World's culture doesn't even really change anything, either. Goku is a product of an alien species that are similar to humans in appearance but not instincts. Saiyans weren't the type to settle down. Toriyama has said that Goku doesn't see his family as "family", more so just companions. He literally loves fighting more than anything. Also, Goku grew up alone in the woods so their culture really has no meaning to him. Even now he lives with his family far from normal societal influences.

[Fionordequester]

Goku is a product of an alien species that are similar to humans in appearance but not instincts. Saiyans weren't the type to settle down. Toriyama has said that Goku doesn't see his family as "family", more so just companions. He literally loves fighting more than anything. Also, Goku grew up alone in the woods so their culture really has no meaning to him. Even now he lives with his family far from normal societal influences.

But Chi-Chi is different; and she most certainly isn't the kind of woman who would tolerate that unless she absolutely had to. She'd be wanting some kind of kiss from Goku at some point ("I've never had my first kiss! If I can't get that with my husband, who CAN I get it with?!"); and Goku, being the easygoing doof he is, would acquise without much resistance. I mean, the guy married her just because she asked nicely!

[nite_jay]

Goku is a product of an alien species that are similar to humans in appearance but not instincts. Saiyans weren't the type to settle down. Toriyama has said that Goku doesn't see his family as "family", more so just companions. He literally loves fighting more than anything. Also, Goku grew up alone in the woods so their culture really has no meaning to him. Even now he lives with his family far from normal societal influences.

But Chi-Chi is different; and she most certainly isn't the kind of woman who would tolerate that unless she absolutely had to. She'd be wanting some kind of kiss from Goku at some point ("I've never had my first kiss! If I can't get that with my husband, who CAN I get it with?!"); and Goku, being the easygoing doof he is, would acquise without much resistance. I mean, the guy married her just because she asked nicely!

Didn't Chi Chi grow up in the woods too? Both of them weren't really exposed to normal Dragon World society. I mean, if she really wanted to change things and be normal why not just move to the city? They obviously don't care about normal society; and frankly I don't see why they would considering they have been hicks who have lived in the mountains almost their whole lifes and have been fine.

[Fionordequester]

Didn't Chi Chi grow up in the woods too? Both of them weren't really exposed to normal Dragon World society. I mean, if she really wanted to change things and be normal why not just move to the city? They obviously don't care about normal society; and frankly I don't see why they would considering they have been hicks who have lived in the mountains almost their whole lifes and have been fine.

That's probably the most reasonable explanation; that Chi-Chi didn't really see the significance behind lip-locking either. Although...wasn't there at least one scene where Roshi or Old Kai requested a kiss from someone in front of Goku? Like, maybe Roshi wanted Goku to bring a pretty girl to kiss him or something?

[nite_jay]

Didn't Chi Chi grow up in the woods too? Both of them weren't really exposed to normal Dragon World society. I mean, if she really wanted to change things and be normal why not just move to the city? They obviously don't care about normal society; and frankly I don't see why they would considering they have been hicks who have lived in the mountains almost their whole lifes and have been fine.

That's probably the most reasonable explanation; that Chi-Chi didn't really see the significance behind lip-locking either. Although...wasn't there at least one scene where Roshi or Old Kai requested a kiss from someone in front of Goku? Like, maybe Roshi wanted Goku to bring a pretty girl to kiss him or something?

I don't remember completely. Are you talking when Roshi asked Goku to bring him a pretty girl and Goku couldn't tell the difference between ugly and pretty people? Otherwise i'm not sure.

[PsionicWarrior]

I think that gag was incredibly off the marks and would have been better avoided lol

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Not just that... the implication is that he doesn't even know what a kiss is.

That's just... wrong on so many levels.

Could you explain it?

[Soppa Saia People]

I think that gag was incredibly off the marks and would have been better avoided lol

Why do you end every post with "lol" ?lol

[Gaffer Tape]

No. We're not talking about Japanese culture, for two reasons. One is that Dragon Ball does not take place in Japan.

How do you explain all the honoriffics then? Like "Goku-sa", "Son-kun", "Pan-chan", and "Kuririn-san"? PRE-TTY odd, don't you think? I mean, honoriffics aren't exclusive to Japan, but to have those EXACT honoriffics? And for that matter, why does everyone in DBZ's universe know Japanese? How is it that neither Raditz, Napppa, or Vegeta ever had trouble speaking the same language as Gohan, Piccolo, and the other Z-senshi? Why are there Kanji symbols on the various gi's that Goku and co. wear?

The "cultural differences" argument doesn't work when the DBZ universe is very clearly modeled off of Japan, with minor exceptions (like dinosaurs and talking animals).

Sigh. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother writing a long, thought-out post when all some people do is read the first couple of sentences, assume they know what the whole point is, ignore literally everything else, and just base their response on that. Because I covered absolutely every single point you just made in my previous post. Because I stated that the joke is meant to play for a Japanese audience. I said that almost verbatim. And I did that because I looked at the post and just had a feeling that if I didn't go to the trouble of clarifying, someone was just going to take that and run with it, and assume I was saying Japanese culture was irrelevant to Dragon Ball. So I went to all that trouble, and you ignored it anyway. If you're not going to actually engage the points that I make, then I'm not going to bother to respond to you anymore because it's just a waste of my time. And I'm genuinely sorry if that sounds harsh, but please try to understand how incredibly frustrating it is that you are taking one thought completely out of context and formulating a conclusion based only on that. I put in the effort to address you. Please have the respect to give me the same courtesies. Otherwise, what is the point of even debating the issue?

Baseball isn't a great counter example since that's a complex game.

That isn't pedantic because baseball needs to be first figured out then taught. No one needed to be taught what kissing means because it is a very simple act that only requires two people. By context I clearly meant that the people kissing could figure it out for themselves what it meant, no one had to sit down to tell them anything. At least that's how I imagine it went.

And Godfather two is a great example because no one needed to be taught that sort of kiss wasn't romantic. Anyone could infer from context what it was about. Now, imagine the first kissers having a romantic moment, staring at each other, and one leaning in for the first time. Do you think they couldn't figure out on their own what it all meant in the heat of the moment?

Yes, but, as I said in my last post, being taught through context is still being taught. Being taught doesn't necessarily mean being sat down at a desk and given a textbook. If we had evidence that Goku was actually put in a romantic situation where kissing occurred, then that would mean he was taught what kissing means in that specific context. "Figuring things out" is still learning. A great Dragon Ball example involving Goku is his pat-pats early in the series. He tries to lie on Blooma's crotch because he is used to lying in his grandfather's lap. He is surprised by the difference. He then figures out that patting people's crotches is a way to determine the differences between the sexes. That is his way of learning those kinds of things, of being taught. He is being taught through his experiences. It's certainly not something he instinctually knew. And likewise, I gave you a laundry list of various different meanings kissing has. So if a little girl first sees a couple kissing on TV, asks what it is, and is told, "They kiss because they love each other." Then she goes and gives her brother a passionate kiss on the lips. Why? Because she loves him. Then she's told that's wrong. That brothers and sisters don't express love that way in our society. That's all learned behavior. It's not something someone would necessarily know instinctually. It has to be taught, and whether that teaching comes from being told, watching it, or picking it up through context, that is all still being taught.

[Fionordequester]

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother writing a long, thought-out post when all some people do is read the first couple of sentences, assume they know what the whole point is, ignore literally everything else, and just base their response on that. Because I covered absolutely every single point you just made in my previous post.

...Ah. I did read your entire post, but I missed the very last sentence, and I can understand why you thought I only read the very first paragraph. I omit things when I quote; I do that for the sake of easier reading for others. So, because I missed your very last sentence (about how Goku existed outside of society), everything else in your paragraph seemed to suggest that your point was...

Fine, kissing is important in Japan. But Dragon World isn't Japan, so what does that matter? Different places come up with different cultural norms when left to their own devices, so why wouldn't that be the case for Dragon World?

And I'm genuinely sorry if that sounds harsh, but please try to understand how incredibly frustrating it is that you are taking one thought completely out of context and formulating a conclusion based only on that. I put in the effort to address you. Please have the respect to give me the same courtesies. Otherwise, what is the point of even debating the issue?

Don't worry, I understand your frustrations. I hope you also understand why I made the mistake I did, inspite of reading the entire post. Try reading your paragraph exactly as you wrote it, except WITHOUT your very last sentence, and you'll understand where I went wrong. I tried, I really did !

[PelicanDynasty]

Heh, GT physically regressed Goku's character and Super mentally regressed him.

As someone who has a sibling in ICU, I needed a good laugh, thanks.

My thoughts are with you man, stay strong and be positive.

[ABED]

It's certainly not something he instinctually knew.

No one instinctually knows anything. Humans don't instincts. And if this is the crux of your argument, then every single human behavior that is voluntary has to be "taught" if we go with such a broad definition. Even sex is learned. Attraction is ingrained to an extent, but the actual act has to be figured out.

[Rocketman]

No one instinctually knows anything. Humans don't instincts.

We actually do, but they're weak and not very useful. For example, astronauts have reported lower back pain because their toes instinctively curl in microgravity - the instinct that once kept us from falling out of trees.

[DBZAOTA482]

Oh wow, a comment from Rocketman! I thought dude was gone from here for good!

[Soppa Saia People]

Oh wow, a comment from Rocketman! I thought dude was gone from here for good!

Nah he makes the oconsinal post ever now and then.

Heh, GT physically regressed Goku's character and Super mentally regressed him.

As someone who has a sibling in ICU, I needed a good laugh, thanks.

My thoughts are with you man, stay strong and be positive.

Thank you.

[nite_jay]

Oh wow, a comment from Rocketman! I thought dude was gone from here for good!

Nah he makes the oconsinal post ever now and then.

From the way he's described it like Rocketman is the Dave Chapelle of Kanzenshuu.

As someone who has a sibling in ICU, I needed a good laugh, thanks.

My thoughts are with you man, stay strong and be positive.

Thank you.

I'm gonna add to this positive energy. Hopefully everything goes okay!

[Dr. Casey]

Yeah, as with many of the others here, I think it's pretty dumb and taking the joke too far. Not that I would expect Goku to be a particularly romantic husband or anything, but I always assumed Goku and Chichi to have a relatively normal husband-wife relationship during the series' downtime (the five year timeskip and the ten year timeskip namely, he's not going to win any Husband of the Year awards for the large bulk of the series in between). Chichi would be the one with the hopeless romantic streak with Goku a lot more casual and nonchalant about things, but I never thought of him as being completely aromantic towards her, either. Things like telling Gohan to tell Chichi he's sorry (as opposed to everyone else not present at the Cell Games) show that he recognizes at least on some level his role as her husband. Always just thought of it as a pretty normal relationship between a couple of country people, with one who's overtly romantic and the other who's more laidback and just enjoys spending time together. I also always assumed that Toriyama saying he was too shy to write romance meant that there was indeed some romance going on off-page during the more ordinary times between timeskips. The whole kissing thing just seems like "How can we Flanderize Goku into being as stereotypical a shonen hero as possible?" to me.

[ABED]

No one instinctually knows anything. Humans don't instincts.

We actually do, but they're weak and not very useful. For example, astronauts have reported lower back pain because their toes instinctively curl in microgravity - the instinct that once kept us from falling out of trees.

That's not an instinct. An instinct is automatic unerring knowledge. What you are describing seems more like an automatic action, like a gag reflex.

[Kendamu]

I take it as a one-off joke never to be referred to again. People can take it as canon or not if they want to and it won't bother me either way.

Of course, it sort of backpedals on Son Goku's more or less "finally kind of normal" personality in the Boo Arc, but I'm not exactly taking Super all that seriously to begin with. it's just kind of a fun thing to enjoy now that we're past the movie arcs.