Is Super Saiyan Blue stronger than Super Saiyan God?

[Mazingerdestro]

Trunks unnamed form is better for whatever reasons

Excepts it's not because he didn't defeat Goku Black or Zamasu with that form. He used a gigantic Genki Dama sword fuelled by the remaining Earthlings, Goku and Vegeta.

SsjSsjGod by far exceeds normal ssjBlue.
Trunks that was unable to keep up with Black as an ssj2 with God ki knowledge and as an SsjSsjGod he was able to push him back and basically get the upper hand.
Without Zamasu to help him, Black would have lost the battle or at least retreat. Something Goku and Vegeta couldn't do till then.
The whole point of the arc was that the "power of anger" allows for extreme power increases.
Even in the end the Kaioshins stated that Trunks' form was "the power of anger".

[Nejishiki]

Also, didn't the manga version show SSG to be clearly superior to SSB in the universal tournament against Hit? I think Toyotarou agrees with us, not Toei.

The manga continuity did no such thing. Super Saiyan God acted as an intermediate form to save Super Saiyan Blue for later. It was only stronger than a sapped version of Vegeta's Super Saiyan Blue. Had Vegeta never dropped his form, he would normally be stronger than Goku's Super Saiyan God. Additionally, Goku's final attack used Super Saiyan Blue because it released the most power against Hit.

[phattangent]

Yes. The proof is pretty easy... Let's assume that 「超サイヤ人ブルー」 is just a shorter way to say 「超サイヤ人ゴッド超サイヤ人」based on the manga. Then,

1. 「超サイヤ人ブルー」 = 「超サイヤ人ゴッド超サイヤ人」(assumption)
2. "Super Saiyan Blue" = "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" (translated assumption)
3. "Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan" > "Super Saiyan God"

∴ "Super Saiyan Blue" > "Super Saiyan God" (by hypothetical syllogism)

[PsionicWarrior]

I've always assumed SSB was stronger because it made better sense to me but I don't know what to think anymore lol

[Grimlock]

Not only Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan came later (which always a transformation that comes later is stronger), it is explicitly said in the manga version of Dragon Ball Super and Xenoverse that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is stronger.

I really don't understand this question when we already have the answer.

[ckal9]

Also, didn't the manga version show SSG to be clearly superior to SSB in the universal tournament against Hit? I think Toyotarou agrees with us, not Toei.

The manga continuity did no such thing. Super Saiyan God acted as an intermediate form to save Super Saiyan Blue for later. It was only stronger than a sapped version of Vegeta's Super Saiyan Blue. Had Vegeta never dropped his form, he would normally be stronger than Goku's Super Saiyan God. Additionally, Goku's final attack used Super Saiyan Blue because it released the most power against Hit.

Is that so, wow. The manga power levels/forms are even more convoluted than the anime's. Dropping a form massively depletes stamina? Ok... sure...

[ckal9]

Not only Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan came later (which always a transformation that comes later is stronger), it is explicitly said in the manga version of Dragon Ball Super and Xenoverse that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is stronger.

I really don't understand this question when we already have the answer.

I can explain. The reason this question keeps getting asked is because there are a lot of examples that point to the contrary of what is stated. What is shown to us is the opposite of what is told to us.

[Nejishiki]

Is that so, wow. The manga power levels/forms are even more convoluted than the anime's. Dropping a form massively depletes stamina? Ok... sure...

You're cutting most of the explanation out. Super Saiyan Blue only does so when switched on-and-off consecutively. That's the only way to encounter that disadvantage. This condition is not cited for other forms.

[Lord Frieza]

The only way I can see it right now is that SSB is the true God form a saiyan can achieve under the tutelage of someone like Whis.

SSG is an artificial version of the form that temperately tapes into god ki via a ritual.

[buutenks]

ssj blue>ssg. Was stated the moment Goku went ssj blue for the first time vs Freeza.

[The Monkey King]

Yes SSJB is stronger than SSJG. This was made clear in the anime and manga versions of Super.

And come on guys this is Dragon Ball. Judging character's power just from feats doesn't work.

Looking at Toriyama's manga judging from feats alone you'd think that Freeza is more powerful than SSJ Vegito because his feats were way more impressive.

You'd also think saiyan saga Piccolo >>> Android saga Piccolo

Piccolo vaporising the moon with a casual ki blast
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Then his strongest attack in the android saga is nowhere near that level:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Ultimately you just have to go with the narrative, even when it seems dumb.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Is that so, wow. The manga power levels/forms are even more convoluted than the anime's. Dropping a form massively depletes stamina? Ok... sure...

You're cutting most of the explanation out. Super Saiyan Blue only does so when switched on-and-off consecutively. That's the only way to encounter that disadvantage. This condition is not cited for other forms.

Goku stated back in the Cell Arc that going SSJ took up a lot of energy and this problem is made even worse by the Grade states, right? Maybe SSBlue is like an even worse version of the Grade forms.

[ckal9]

Is that so, wow. The manga power levels/forms are even more convoluted than the anime's. Dropping a form massively depletes stamina? Ok... sure...

You're cutting most of the explanation out. Super Saiyan Blue only does so when switched on-and-off consecutively. That's the only way to encounter that disadvantage. This condition is not cited for other forms.

OK, I understand. I think this doesn't make sense, and an lazy way to make SSB weaker, but that's Toyotaro's explanation, so fine.

Yes SSJB is stronger than SSJG. This was made clear in the anime and manga versions of Super.

And come on guys this is Dragon Ball. Judging character's power just from feats doesn't work.

Looking at Toriyama's manga judging from feats alone you'd think that Freeza is more powerful than SSJ Vegito because his feats were way more impressive.

You'd also think saiyan saga Piccolo >>> Android saga Piccolo

Piccolo vaporising the moon with a casual ki blast
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Then his strongest attack in the android saga is nowhere near that level:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Ultimately you just have to go with the narrative, even when it seems dumb.

I hear you. I've been struggling massively to see how SSB is strong than SSG in any way but this is probably the only explanation here that matters. SSG, however stupid, was creating universe shaking shockwaves. SSB just doesn't seem powerful, or any more so at all than SSJ, just faster (and being able to survived being stabbed through the abdomen, heh). The ki blasts should be disintegrating the earth at this point. Hell, even powering up should be far more impressive than it is.

Is that so, wow. The manga power levels/forms are even more convoluted than the anime's. Dropping a form massively depletes stamina? Ok... sure...

You're cutting most of the explanation out. Super Saiyan Blue only does so when switched on-and-off consecutively. That's the only way to encounter that disadvantage. This condition is not cited for other forms.

Goku stated back in the Cell Arc that going SSJ took up a lot of energy and this problem is made even worse by the Grade states, right? Maybe SSBlue is like an even worse version of the Grade forms.

Then the question arises what is the point of SSB? If stamina is such a problem, why not just use SSG most of the time? If SSB is simply a SSJ of SSG as some adamantly believe, then why can't Vegeta go SSG? Why doesn't Goku use SSG in the anime when he has stamina problems?

I'm not even sure we've been told consistent information in the anime about SSB's stamina either. IIRC, SSB was introduced as a form which was supposed to leak very little ki, a calm and stable form (Goku's explanation). When Goku went KKx10 against Hit in SSB, he said it's too much to handle, "even for blue." What would that mean if not that SSB provides enhanced stamina and control? It seems in the FT arc the idea of stamina being an issue for SSB is a contrived and artificial explanation designed to give SSB some kind of weakness.

[Ki Breaker]

OK, I understand. I think this doesn't make sense, and an lazy way to make SSB weaker, but that's Toyotaro's explanation, so fine.

This term is thrown around way too much..
What do you want them to do? Write and recite a 10 page essay on it? Or perhaps provide research material with source?

It is not called being lazy it's called a plot device..
Lazy is when they don't give an explanation to anything at all.. which isn't the case here

[ckal9]

OK, I understand. I think this doesn't make sense, and an lazy way to make SSB weaker, but that's Toyotaro's explanation, so fine.

This term is thrown around way too much..
What do you want them to do? Write and recite a 10 page essay on it? Or perhaps provide research material with source?

It is not called being lazy it's called a plot device..
Lazy is when they don't give an explanation to anything at all.. which isn't the case here

I think lazy is an appropriate term here because it doesn't not seem like the idea took more than 2 minutes to come up with. I feel the process went along the lines of: ok SSB has no weakness, need a weakness, ok when you power up and down with the form you get super tired, ok magic.

Your definition of lazy is length of explanation, which I disagree with. There appears to me that little thought and effort were put into creating something that makes sense, thus, lazy.

[Ki Breaker]

OK, I understand. I think this doesn't make sense, and an lazy way to make SSB weaker, but that's Toyotaro's explanation, so fine.

This term is thrown around way too much..
What do you want them to do? Write and recite a 10 page essay on it? Or perhaps provide research material with source?

It is not called being lazy it's called a plot device..
Lazy is when they don't give an explanation to anything at all.. which isn't the case here

I think lazy is an appropriate term here because it doesn't not seem like the idea took more than 2 minutes to come up with. I feel the process went along the lines of: ok SSB has no weakness, need a weakness, ok when you power up and down with the form you get super tired, ok magic.

Your definition of lazy is length of explanation, which I disagree with. There appears to me that little thought and effort were put into creating something that makes sense, thus, lazy.

You do understand that powering up and down form a form depleting stamina and power itself goes as far as super Saiyan itself right? That is the whole reason goku and Gohan mastered super Saiyan..

Using that idea from so early here is anything but lazy, it's brilliant..

You would think he came up with this idea on a whim.. but he has had to think how it will affect the future story, does it contradicts anything, will I be able to establish this as a fact without holes..
They literally create a story form bullet points by the creator.. that itself is a such a hard job one wouldn't know until they try it..

A lot of thinking goes behind giving a single line explanation, lot more than people give them credit for..

Calling all this work lazy is just not right

[ckal9]

This term is thrown around way too much..
What do you want them to do? Write and recite a 10 page essay on it? Or perhaps provide research material with source?

It is not called being lazy it's called a plot device..
Lazy is when they don't give an explanation to anything at all.. which isn't the case here

I think lazy is an appropriate term here because it doesn't not seem like the idea took more than 2 minutes to come up with. I feel the process went along the lines of: ok SSB has no weakness, need a weakness, ok when you power up and down with the form you get super tired, ok magic.

Your definition of lazy is length of explanation, which I disagree with. There appears to me that little thought and effort were put into creating something that makes sense, thus, lazy.

You do understand that powering up and down form a form depleting stamina and power itself goes as far as super Saiyan itself right? That is the whole reason goku and Gohan mastered super Saiyan..

Using that idea from so early here is anything but lazy, it's brilliant..

You would think he came up with this idea on a whim.. but he has had to think how it will affect the future story, does it contradicts anything, will I be able to establish this as a fact without holes..
They literally create a story form bullet points by the creator.. that itself is a such a hard job one wouldn't know until they try it..

A lot of thinking goes behind giving a single line explanation, lot more than people give them credit for..

Calling all this work lazy is just not right

No, I do not think brilliant describes this at all as SSB was introduced as a form that would lead us to believe it is very stable with perfect ki control, as Goku described it. Additionally, Goku and Vegeta have been used to SSJ and transforming into and out of it for years now.

[Dragonball Black]

All I know is that he Goku says in ressurection of f that he got a "taste" of super saiyan god, and now he can go into it with his super saiyan form.
A taste to me means that there is a lot more at the super saiyan god dinner table that we are just waiting to see.

[Nejishiki]

Then the question arises what is the point of SSB? If stamina is such a problem, why not just use SSG most of the time? If SSB is simply a SSJ of SSG as some adamantly believe, then why can't Vegeta go SSG? Why doesn't Goku use SSG in the anime when he has stamina problems?

Super Saiyan God was introduced as a temporary form. As far as the manga continuity is concerned, Vegeta didn't deem it necessary when he could access the power on his own with Super Saiyan Blue. Furthermore, Goku using Super Saiyan God against Hit and Future Trunks has been treated as unusual by the characters. You can assume Goku still transforms into it due to retaining the effects of the ritual, which is a different process than naturally earning it. With the anime continuity, Super Saiyan God remains temporary. It would be troublesome to activate it with help each time it was needed. Blue's original purpose was always using the power of Super Saiyan God as Super Saiyans.

[ckal9]

As far as the manga continuity is concerned, Vegeta didn't deem it necessary when he could access the power on his own with Super Saiyan Blue.

Wouldn't Vegeta know from his expertise and past experiences about stamina problems (first getting used to SSJ and even USSJ for example)? I don't see why he wouldn't use SSG if he has had so much practice with SSB and knows it's stamina limitations. It seems incredibly out of character for him not to know about this.