How strong is the Fusion Dance?

[dragon boss z]

Regardless of him being tired after, the fact remains that blasts capable of taking out the audience have been going around for ages by individuals well weaker than her, so her panicking at how outrageously powerful the blast was doesn't make sense if her fear was only for the audience. Besides, she knows that the boys have at least somewhat competent ki control (she knows Trunks does and that Goten somewhat does), so again, her fears don't make sense if it's only out of fear of the audience's safety.


The thing is though is that Toriyama is actually fairly good at indicating, in one way or another, if someone is holding back. Either through statements made by them before, during, or after the fight, or comparisons between them and others they fight to where we can extrapolate that so and so was holding back. With both the Vegeta vs. Trunks and #18 vs. Mighty Mask situations, nothing was saying that they were holding back when it came to the important moment. When Vegeta was dodging attacks and then punched Trunks, nothing says that Vegeta was holding back. Likewise, when #18 was fearing the power of the blast Trunks fired (after establishing that she knew who they were and that they had transformed), nothing indicates she was still suppressed from when she was fighting them in their base forms. With no indication, we can't just assume it.


The translation I'm giving is Herms' translation, which is word for word how it comes in the original Japanese manga. The translations you're going with are truncated/altered for the size limitation of the speech bubbles. In the original manga, they do mention they're at a disadvantage, but specifically that it's the outfit that's causing them trouble, not their strength.

Trunks: “Either way, we’re at a disadvantage in this getup, so we’ve got no choice but to settle this with a kiai cannon!”
Goten: “Eh! But will she be alright?...”
Trunks: “Don’t worry, she won’t die if we do it appropriately. She’s No.18…”

Likewise, Trunks specifies that she won't die IF they do it correctly, meaning that she'd die if they tried it a different way. Given that Trunks knows that #18 was once stronger than their dads were, he'd have some baseline for how powerful she is, so he'd know if it was possible for him to kill her if his ki blast wasn't weak enough.

I know it doesn't make much sense for city sized attacks to be scary at that point, but it seems to me everyone was focusing on the size of the explosion of the attack.

Also it doesn't make sense for their ssj forms to be so strong when in their base forms 18 still though they were humans. For her to think they are humans I would assume they would have to be quite a bit weaker than Namek saga base Goku, though their ssj form multipliers could be higher.

As for Trunks saying she won't die if they do it appropriately, I doubt they know exactly how durable 18 and Frieza could probably kill 18 with a ki blast too. If Frieza charged up a planet level attack while at full power I'm not sure if 18 could take a direct hit from that.

[Darkprince410]

I know it doesn't make much sense for city sized attacks to be scary at that point, but it seems to me everyone was focusing on the size of the explosion of the attack.

She was panicked not only because of the power of the attack, but the speed of the attack too. Given that she was scared of the speed, it further discredits that she was only scared for the audience's safety, as the speed would only be an issue for her.

Also it doesn't make sense for their ssj forms to be so strong when in their base forms 18 still though they were humans. For her to think they are humans I would assume they would have to be quite a bit weaker than Namek saga base Goku, though their ssj form multipliers could be higher.

She only thought they were human because she didn't know who they were. She still thought it was a single person, and thus was so confused that they were so powerful. That's the only reason she thought they were human, because she still thought it was a single person.

As for Trunks saying she won't die if they do it appropriately, I doubt they know exactly how durable 18 and Frieza could probably kill 18 with a ki blast too. If Frieza charged up a planet level attack while at full power I'm not sure if 18 could take a direct hit from that.

#18 would be able to take it without any real issue. Future Trunks was far more powerful than Freeza was, and one of his most intense attacks wasn't able to even faze her or her brother when he used it. An attack from Freeza wouldn't generate that much power as Trunks' blast did, so if Future Trunks couldn't damage her with a powerful ki blast, then Freeza couldn't either. Thus, the fact that regular Trunks needed to tone his down specifically to avoid killing her means that he was well above Freeza and his future counterpart at that time.

[dragon boss z]

She was panicked not only because of the power of the attack, but the speed of the attack too. Given that she was scared of the speed, it further discredits that she was only scared for the audience's safety, as the speed would only be an issue for her.


She only thought they were human because she didn't know who they were. She still thought it was a single person, and thus was so confused that they were so powerful. That's the only reason she thought they were human, because she still thought it was a single person.


#18 would be able to take it without any real issue. Future Trunks was far more powerful than Freeza was, and one of his most intense attacks wasn't able to even faze her or her brother when he used it. An attack from Freeza wouldn't generate that much power as Trunks' blast did, so if Future Trunks couldn't damage her with a powerful ki blast, then Freeza couldn't either. Thus, the fact that regular Trunks needed to tone his down specifically to avoid killing her means that he was well above Freeza and his future counterpart at that time.

Future Trunks didn't shoot a planet level attack at 18. At that time the only planet level attacks were special moves such as the kamehameha, final flash, and death ball. And Trunks really wasn't that much stronger than Frieza's full power. Trunk's power was compared to Namek ssj Goku, though I think he was slightly stronger.
Speaking of future Trunks it doesn't make any sense for kid Trunks to be stronger than future Trunks. They are the same person but future Trunks is older, with more training, and an intense life of fighting the androids.

[Darkprince410]

Future Trunks didn't shoot a planet level attack at 18. At that time the only planet level attacks were special moves such as the kamehameha, final flash, and death ball. And Trunks really wasn't that much stronger than Frieza's full power. Trunk's power was compared to Namek ssj Goku, though I think he was slightly stronger.
Speaking of future Trunks it doesn't make any sense for kid Trunks to be stronger than future Trunks. They are the same person but future Trunks is older, with more training, and an intense life of fighting the androids.

Any ki blast of sufficient force was capable of destroying planets. It's not that only special moves were capable of it, just that any attack with enough strength could readily destroy the planet if the attack was directed toward the planet. Vegeta, after all, was capable of doing so with a battle power of 18,000, so anyone stronger than him could easily destroy the planet. By the time you got into the Freeza arc, pretty much all the characters could destroy the Earth if they had wanted, and once you got into the Cell arc, they would be casual planet destroyers with their attacks. Trunks in his base form during the Cell arc would have had more than enough power to destroy the Earth with a ki blast, so the fact that he transformed to Ssj to fire his attack means that it had far more than enough power to have blown Earth up if he had wanted.

It makes perfect sense that Trunks would be stronger than his future self. He had the benefit of Vegeta and Goten to train with, whereas Future Trunks had Gohan for all of a year at most before he was killed. Even then, their training options were limited in comparison to Trunks' with Goten and Vegeta, as Future Trunks and Gohan had the constant fear of the Artificial Humans to keep them on their toes and not focus too heavily on training.

[dragon boss z]

Any ki blast of sufficient force was capable of destroying planets. It's not that only special moves were capable of it, just that any attack with enough strength could readily destroy the planet if the attack was directed toward the planet. Vegeta, after all, was capable of doing so with a battle power of 18,000, so anyone stronger than him could easily destroy the planet. By the time you got into the Freeza arc, pretty much all the characters could destroy the Earth if they had wanted, and once you got into the Cell arc, they would be casual planet destroyers with their attacks. Trunks in his base form during the Cell arc would have had more than enough power to destroy the Earth with a ki blast, so the fact that he transformed to Ssj to fire his attack means that it had far more than enough power to have blown Earth up if he had wanted.

It makes perfect sense that Trunks would be stronger than his future self. He had the benefit of Vegeta and Goten to train with, whereas Future Trunks had Gohan for all of a year at most before he was killed. Even then, their training options were limited in comparison to Trunks' with Goten and Vegeta, as Future Trunks and Gohan had the constant fear of the Artificial Humans to keep them on their toes and not focus too heavily on training.

I know any ki blast with sufficient fore is capable of destroying a planet, but nobody proved to be that strong until Buu. The only attacks ever mentioned that could destroy the planet before the buu saga were special attacks.
And I still have my doubts about saiyan saga Vegeta being a planet buster. It is heavily implied in the Namek arc Frieza is the only planet buster out of his men. At best Vegeta was just barely small planet level with his Galic Gun.

And Trunks really didn't train with Vegeta that much considering Vegeta didn't even know Trunks could turn ssj until right before the tournament. Same with Goten. He only had a couple weeks to train with Gohan. Future Trunks spent years training with Gohan and got multiple zenkai boosts from the androids. He was a battle hardened warrior. Present Trunks was just a spoiled kid that trained with his dad for a couple weeks.

[Darkprince410]

I know any ki blast with sufficient fore is capable of destroying a planet, but nobody proved to be that strong until Buu. The only attacks ever mentioned that could destroy the planet before the buu saga were special attacks.

Regardless, and even if you ignore Vegeta's claim to be able to destroy the Earth with his Galick-ho, we know for absolute fact that Freeza was capable of destroying planets with a battle power of 530,000, and Future Trunks' base form was several times that by the beginning of the Cell arc. Given that he went Ssj and fired a blast he was intending to stop #17 and #18 with, there is legitimately no way that his strength or the strength of the blast was below Freeza's attack that destroyed planet Vegeta

And Trunks really didn't train with Vegeta that much considering Vegeta didn't even know Trunks could turn ssj until right before the tournament. Same with Goten. He only had a couple weeks to train with Gohan. Future Trunks spent years training with Gohan and got multiple zenkai boosts from the androids. He was a battle hardened warrior. Present Trunks was just a spoiled kid that trained with his dad for a couple weeks.

Bulma indicated that Vegeta had already started training with Trunks prior to when Gohan came to her to make the Saiyaman costume for him, so there is some time frame there. Likewise, Goten and Trunks were already sparring and playfighting with one another (of equal intensity to Gohan's first sparring match with Goten) well before Gohan started training with Goten.

Future Trunks only trained with Gohan for at most a year, as the Daizenshuu indicates that Gohan died the same year that he took Trunks on as a student. Likewise, not only did near-death power-ups essentially cease to be once the Ssj transformation came about, but the manga implies that Trunks only had a single run in with #17 and #18 prior to his first trip to the past to give Goku the heart medicine. So, if you look at things objectively, Trunks actually had a fair bit more training than Future Trunks did by the time we first saw Future Trunks arrive.

[kinisking]

The kids shouldn't be too far below the adults, though. Goten is able to give Gohan a good workout and Trunks was able to land a blow on Vegeta pretty quickly. They're much stronger than the androids at the very least, as SSJ Trunks heavily suppresses his blast so it doesn't harm 18, yet she's still shocked by its power and says it's incredibly dangerous. She also states that the kids have outrageous power despite the fact that they were suppressed.

Yes, they have outrageous power, but for kids. She wasn't expecting two kids less than 10 to be that strong. Do you realize how long it took Goku and Vegeta to reach that level? Besides them the entire saiyan race didn't even reach a power level of over 20,000. Frieza said he didn't think there would be anyone stronger than Captain Ginyu, and Ginyu only had a power level of 120,000. It's dangerous for kids to be that strong. And their ki blasts are dangerous because they could easily accidentally kill people with them.

Even so, their feats still put them close to adults. Trunks lands a hit on Vegeta within seconds and Goten is able to challenge Gohan.

Vegeta and Gohan both had massive control of the situation though. I don't think they're that close. They might be imperfect cell level.

[dragon boss z]

Regardless, and even if you ignore Vegeta's claim to be able to destroy the Earth with his Galick-ho, we know for absolute fact that Freeza was capable of destroying planets with a battle power of 530,000, and Future Trunks' base form was several times that by the beginning of the Cell arc. Given that he went Ssj and fired a blast he was intending to stop #17 and #18 with, there is legitimately no way that his strength or the strength of the blast was below Freeza's attack that destroyed planet Vegeta

Bulma indicated that Vegeta had already started training with Trunks prior to when Gohan came to her to make the Saiyaman costume for him, so there is some time frame there. Likewise, Goten and Trunks were already sparring and playfighting with one another (of equal intensity to Gohan's first sparring match with Goten) well before Gohan started training with Goten.

Future Trunks only trained with Gohan for at most a year, as the Daizenshuu indicates that Gohan died the same year that he took Trunks on as a student. Likewise, not only did near-death power-ups essentially cease to be once the Ssj transformation came about, but the manga implies that Trunks only had a single run in with #17 and #18 prior to his first trip to the past to give Goku the heart medicine. So, if you look at things objectively, Trunks actually had a fair bit more training than Future Trunks did by the time we first saw Future Trunks arrive.

True, though if we are going by manga only Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta off panel and we don't really know what happened. If we go by the anime Frieza used his supernova that he charged up to a massive size and seems to be a move specifically for busting planets. Can you show me the scan of the ki attack from future Trunks you are talking about? I don't remember him landing a strong ki attack on the androids.

Ya I was thinking of the anime where it showed future Trunks getting a lot of training and experience fighting the androids. However a year of intense training with the goal to save the world is still more than what kid Trunks got. Also age plays a factor too.

Toriyama writers a power of a character more on plot than logic. For example all the humans should be casual moon busters by now, but Krillin still has yet to show even mountain level ki attacks. And in RoF they had trouble with Frieza soldiers that gasped at a city level attack and were eaten by a giant fish.

Not to mention Toriyama put that questionable line of Vegeta saying he could win the tournament without ssj even though 18 and Piccolo were participating. And then it is later confirmed in BoG base Goku is weaker than Frieza still. Toriyama isn't consistent and he just writes the story as who he feels should be stronger at the time.

So when it comes down to it kid Goten and Trunk's best evidence they are stronger than Frieza is they freaked out 18. However they also had trouble with first form Frieza level characters while in their base. So those two cancel each other out. Now if we look at actual feats Frieza wins in every single category. Even if they were somehow stronger Frieza would still kill them by busting the planet or cutting them in half with his disc.

[Speedster]

we know for absolute fact that Freeza was capable of destroying planets with a battle power of 530,000, and Future Trunks' base form was several times that by the beginning of the Cell arc. Given that he went Ssj and fired a blast he was intending to stop #17 and #18 with, there is legitimately no way that his strength or the strength of the blast was below Freeza's attack that destroyed planet Vegeta

Not that I personally agree with the following lowballing logic but here it is:
1. The manga never actually showed how Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta and in what form he was when he did so. You only assume it was the first form due to the Bardock TV special. But the manga flashback (in chapter 307) only shows first form Freeza only killing the Saiyans. It is not shown whether that same attack destroyed the planet too. You can't rule out Freeza turning into his final form afterwards and busting the planet. As a matter of fact it took 50% final form Freeza to destroy Namek. He said he held back "too much" so it didn't result in an instantaneous explosion but how much did he hold back?

2. Final form 100% Freeza in chapter 323 says: "I need to get away from this planet while there is still time...If I'm caught in the explosion I'll lose even more of strength". So a planetary destruction level attack can harm a character like 100% Freeza. If you were going by power level logic on the other hand and him being able to destroy the Planet in his first form it would be nothing for him to worry about. A planetary explosion doesn't itself yield any more energy than the explosive blast resulting to its destruction. Even if it somehow did due to "bs anime physics" it would be like the total would be 2x maximum. Either way it follows that in a fight where characters try to wear down each other, sub-planetary level attacks can be effective.

3. In chapter 349 Kuririn and Tenshinhan combined couldn't even manage to destroy a door. So much for casual moon or planet busters!

Can you show me the scan of the ki attack from future Trunks you are talking about? I don't remember him landing a strong ki attack on the androids.

I think he is referring to the Future androids.

[TheUltimateNinja]

3. In chapter 349 Kuririn and Tenshinhan combined couldn't even manage to destroy a door. So much for casual moon or planet busters!

Obviously Gero's door has planetary durability.

[Speedster]

3. In chapter 349 Kuririn and Tenshinhan combined couldn't even manage to destroy a door. So much for casual moon or planet busters!

Obviously Gero's door has planetary durability.

Even if the door itself was somehow special and “of planetary level durability" the surrounding rocky mountain on which it was fastened was not. It was only of rocky-level durability. LOL. As a matter of fact we do see Gero’s lab from inside and its interior was rocky. So basically Kuririn and Tenshinhan cannot even bang a door out of its rocky fastening. And by the way why Tenshinhan didn't try to use kikoho to barge in - a move that later on held back SEMI-PERFECT CELL? Or is it below door-level too?

[dragon boss z]

Can you show me the scan of the ki attack from future Trunks you are talking about? I don't remember him landing a strong ki attack on the androids.

I think he is referring to the Future androids.

But in the manga the only fight of Trunks fighting the androids was him killing them with ki blasts, lol.

[dragon boss z]

3. In chapter 349 Kuririn and Tenshinhan combined couldn't even manage to destroy a door. So much for casual moon or planet busters!

Obviously Gero's door has planetary durability.

Even if the door itself was somehow special and “of planetary level durability" the surrounding rocky mountain on which it was fastened was not. It was only of rocky-level durability. LOL. As a matter of fact we do see Gero’s lab from inside and its interior was rocky. So basically Kuririn and Tenshinhan cannot even bang a door out of its rocky fastening. And by the way why Tenshinhan didn't try to use kikoho to barge in - a move that later on held back SEMI-PERFECT CELL? Or is it below door-level too?

tbh with the Goku having trouble with 40 tons, ssj Vegeta not being able to budge the 1,000 ton Maggeta in the super manga, and Tien and Krillin not being able to break down a large metal door, it's pretty clear Toriyama doesn't think his characters are as strong as the fans do, lol. Well the Meggeta thing probably came from Toyotaro, but still.

[TheUltimateNinja]

3. In chapter 349 Kuririn and Tenshinhan combined couldn't even manage to destroy a door. So much for casual moon or planet busters!

Obviously Gero's door has planetary durability.

Even if the door itself was somehow special and “of planetary level durability" the surrounding rocky mountain on which it was fastened was not. It was only of rocky-level durability. LOL. As a matter of fact we do see Gero’s lab from inside and its interior was rocky. So basically Kuririn and Tenshinhan cannot even bang a door out of its rocky fastening. And by the way why Tenshinhan didn't try to use kikoho to barge in - a move that later on held back SEMI-PERFECT CELL? Or is it below door-level too?

The rocks also have planetary durability as they are part of the planet.

[Speedster]

The rocks also have planetary durability as they are part of the planet.

LOL. That is not how it works. Planetary durability refers to the ability of withstanding attacks capable to destroy a planet. Compared to destroying that rock surrounding the door, to destroy a planet you would need as much larger energy as the ratio of the mass of the entire planet to the mass of that rock. That is sextillions of times more energy.

But in the manga the only fight of Trunks fighting the androids was him killing them with ki blasts, lol.

The Trunks TV special is based on a special manga chapter.

[dragon boss z]

But in the manga the only fight of Trunks fighting the androids was him killing them with ki blasts, lol.

The Trunks TV special is based on a special manga chapter.

I know but they play out differently. In the manga version Trunks was already a ssj before Gohan died.

[Darkprince410]

True, though if we are going by manga only Frieza destroyed planet Vegeta off panel and we don't really know what happened. If we go by the anime Frieza used his supernova that he charged up to a massive size and seems to be a move specifically for busting planets. Can you show me the scan of the ki attack from future Trunks you are talking about? I don't remember him landing a strong ki attack on the androids.

Regardless of how large he makes an attack, what matters is how much power he puts into it. If you look when he tried destroying Namek, his first attempt was barely basketball sized and then his second was still maybe a meter and a half in diameter. All that matters is the power being put into the attack.

I'm referring to this blast when he was trying to prevent them from activating #16.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Toriyama writers a power of a character more on plot than logic. For example all the humans should be casual moon busters by now, but Krillin still has yet to show even mountain level ki attacks. And in RoF they had trouble with Frieza soldiers that gasped at a city level attack and were eaten by a giant fish.

They didn't actually have trouble. It was clearly indicated they were holding back just to buy time for Goku and Vegeta to arrive. Freeza even mentions that Gohan on his own could have easily killed all his men if he had wanted, but they were stalling and intentionally not killing.

Not to mention Toriyama put that questionable line of Vegeta saying he could win the tournament without ssj even though 18 and Piccolo were participating. And then it is later confirmed in BoG base Goku is weaker than Frieza still. Toriyama isn't consistent and he just writes the story as who he feels should be stronger at the time.

Vegeta's line has multiple ways it can be taken, one of which is that he saw his superiority over the other Saiya-jin as not being an issue if the transformation was restricted. It's not a cut and dry line that he thought he'd beat them all.

So when it comes down to it kid Goten and Trunk's best evidence they are stronger than Frieza is they freaked out 18. However they also had trouble with first form Frieza level characters while in their base. So those two cancel each other out. Now if we look at actual feats Frieza wins in every single category. Even if they were somehow stronger Frieza would still kill them by busting the planet or cutting them in half with his disc.

If you're referring to the 2008 JSAT special, there's a fair amount of contradictory information there anyway. For starters, if you go by Tarble's statement, it took Goku transforming to Ssj for him to feel that they might be strong enough to fight against Abo and Cado. Likewise, the special wasn't written by Toriyama, so where Toei decided to have the boys' strength wise is rather moot there.

1. The manga never actually showed how Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta and in what form he was when he did so. You only assume it was the first form due to the Bardock TV special. But the manga flashback (in chapter 307) only shows first form Freeza only killing the Saiyans. It is not shown whether that same attack destroyed the planet too. You can't rule out Freeza turning into his final form afterwards and busting the planet. As a matter of fact it took 50% final form Freeza to destroy Namek. He said he held back "too much" so it didn't result in an instantaneous explosion but how much did he hold back?

He stated upon transformation into his third form that it's the first time he's ever used it, and stated that he never transformed when he attacked Planet Vegeta.

[Speedster]

He stated upon transformation into his third form that it's the first time he's ever used it, and stated that he never transformed when he attacked Planet Vegeta.

It was never explicitly stated that he destroyed Planet Vegeta in his first (or second form for that matter). Only thing Freeza said in chapter 301 is that the heroes would be the first ever to see him in his higher forms. Which first is a lie as King Cold did see him in forms other than the first 2 (as Freeza’s final form is his true form) and second there is nothing to say that for planet Vegeta’s destruction he didn't transform but there was no-one there to see him. There could have been eyewitnesses that saw the explosion from distance but not Freeza himself.

[Darkprince410]

He stated upon transformation into his third form that it's the first time he's ever used it, and stated that he never transformed when he attacked Planet Vegeta.

It was never explicitly stated that he destroyed Planet Vegeta in his first (or second form for that matter). Only thing Freeza said in chapter 301 is that the heroes would be the first ever to see him in his higher forms. Which first is a lie as King Cold did see him in forms other than the first 2 (as Freeza’s final form is his true form) and second there is nothing to say that for planet Vegeta’s destruction he didn't transform but there was no-one there to see him. There could have been eyewitnesses that saw the explosion from distance but not Freeza himself.

He explicitly states that he never transformed at all when he attacked planet Vegeta though.

Freeza: “Oh, is that right? Look vee—eery closely then. This isn’t something you get to see very often. Even when I attacked Planet Vegeta, where the Saiyans lived, and fought with the king, I was able to win without any need to transform whatsoever…Vegeta…your father wasn’t anything special.”

So the entire time he attacked the planet, even when taking on Vegeta's father, he didn't transform.

[dragon boss z]

Regardless of how large he makes an attack, what matters is how much power he puts into it. If you look when he tried destroying Namek, his first attempt was barely basketball sized and then his second was still maybe a meter and a half in diameter. All that matters is the power being put into the attack.

I'm referring to this blast when he was trying to prevent them from activating #16.


They didn't actually have trouble. It was clearly indicated they were holding back just to buy time for Goku and Vegeta to arrive. Freeza even mentions that Gohan on his own could have easily killed all his men if he had wanted, but they were stalling and intentionally not killing.

Vegeta's line has multiple ways it can be taken, one of which is that he saw his superiority over the other Saiya-jin as not being an issue if the transformation was restricted. It's not a cut and dry line that he thought he'd beat them all.

If you're referring to the 2008 JSAT special, there's a fair amount of contradictory information there anyway. For starters, if you go by Tarble's statement, it took Goku transforming to Ssj for him to feel that they might be strong enough to fight against Abo and Cado. Likewise, the special wasn't written by Toriyama, so where Toei decided to have the boys' strength wise is rather moot there.

I agree size isn't everything, but notice how with both planet busting attacks Frieza charged up the attack. He didn't just fire down a casual ki blast.

The androids dodged Trunk's blast to save 16.

Krillin clearly had trouble. Gohan had to save him. And Piccolo had trouble against a Zarbon level opponent... Makes no sense, lol. Basically saying Goten and Trunks are stronger than Frieza because they scared 18 a bit is the same as saying Shisami is stronger than Frieza because he pushed Piccolo a bit.

Goku was suppressed when he read his power with his scouter. They always suppress their power level when they aren't fighting and if it wasn't suppressed the scouter would of blown.
And are you sure it wasn't written by Toriyama? I could of sworn he wrote the story for that special. Tarble was even mentioned in Battle of Gods.