How strong is the Fusion Dance?

[TheUltimateNinja]

Because in Toei-verse it seems incredibly OP, SSJ Gogeta is able to make a complete joke of Janemba who can dominate SSJ3 Goku easily, and SSJ4 Gogeta is stated to be tens of times stronger than Goku or Vegeta, yet Gotenks doesn't seem to be all that powerful compared to Goten and Trunks.

[TobyS]

Canon wise it depends how strong you think the boys are.

I think the boys are hugely overrated, weaker than the humans in base and weaker than 18 as SSJ.

I also think SS1 Gotenks (pre rosat) was at least equal, probably stronger, than SSJ3 Goku.

So for me the multiplier is massive.

If you think Goten=Gohan or whatever op stuff then you can have the fision multiplier be much weaker.

[nickzambuto]

Agreed. Although I'm on the opposite side of the fence, I believe that their spars with their elders, their fight against 18, and Piccolo's endless praise and astonishment at Goten and Trunks clearly imply them to be only one tier below their fathers (in the same form of course). Meaning that fusion works fine as just an addition of powers, Gotenks can still end up massively stronger than Goku if the numbers are something like this:

Goten and Trunks (beginning of training) - 7
Adult Gohan (calm) - 7
Vegeta - 8
Goku/Majin Vegeta - 9

This would make Gotenks a 14, numerous tiers above Goku, yet it doesn't even account for all their training (for the tournament and in the ROSAT). Collectively I think their gains should have been enough to put them at an eight, given Trunks' first spar with Vegeta. So that makes Gotenks a 16.

People always bring up the fact that Goten and Trunks aren't anywhere near Super Boo yet Gotenks was stronger then him, so fusion must be a massive multiplier. But that's ignoring a very important factor; Gotenks had SSJ3. Goten and Trunks were only SSJ1. SSJ1 Gotenks was about as innefective against Boo as you would think he'd be.

The ancillary material mucks things up. Like OP mentioned with Gogeta. But I chalk that up to the rival boost. Goku and Vegeta are perfect yin and yang whose strengths fill in the other's weaknesses. Their the ultimate rivals, so when the two strongest guys resolve to set aside themselves and their pride and join forces, it creates the ultimate warrior. Elder Kai said as much, when everyone was surprised that Vegetto ended up so strong, and Kaioshin assumed Potara was just that great. Elder Kai was quick to shut him down and explain that it was actually Goku and Vegeta who made the fusion so potent. Goten and Trunks didn't fill each other's holes and power each other's strength like that, they're too similar. They're more like partners then counterparts.

That's the idea with Gogeta and Vegetto IMO. Yes I know Goku and Vegeta weren't actually the number 1 strongest guys, don't nitpick. The point is that base fusion simply combines two people, with a perfect rivalry however we get multiplication.

[dragon boss z]

Agreed. Although I'm on the opposite side of the fence, I believe that their spars with their elders, their fight against 18, and Piccolo's endless praise and astonishment at Goten and Trunks clearly imply them to be only one tier below their fathers (in the same form of course). Meaning that fusion works fine as just an addition of powers, Gotenks can still end up massively stronger than Goku if the numbers are something like this:

Goten and Trunks (beginning of training) - 7
Adult Gohan (calm) - 7
Vegeta - 8
Goku/Majin Vegeta - 9

This would make Gotenks a 14, numerous tiers above Goku, yet it doesn't even account for all their training (for the tournament and in the ROSAT). Collectively I think their gains should have been enough to put them at an eight, given Trunks' first spar with Vegeta. So that makes Gotenks a 16.

People always bring up the fact that Goten and Trunks aren't anywhere near Super Boo yet Gotenks was stronger then him, so fusion must be a massive multiplier. But that's ignoring a very important factor; Gotenks had SSJ3. Goten and Trunks were only SSJ1. SSJ1 Gotenks was about as innefective against Boo as you would think he'd be.

The ancillary material mucks things up. Like OP mentioned with Gogeta. But I chalk that up to the rival boost. Goku and Vegeta are perfect yin and yang whose strengths fill in the other's weaknesses. Their the ultimate rivals, so when the two strongest guys resolve to set aside themselves and their pride and join forces, it creates the ultimate warrior. Elder Kai said as much, when everyone was surprised that Vegetto ended up so strong, and Kaioshin assumed Potara was just that great. Elder Kai was quick to shut him down and explain that it was actually Goku and Vegeta who made the fusion so potent. Goten and Trunks didn't fill each other's holes and power each other's strength like that, they're too similar. They're more like partners then counterparts.

That's the idea with Gogeta and Vegetto IMO. Yes I know Goku and Vegeta weren't actually the number 1 strongest guys, don't nitpick. The point is that base fusion simply combines two people, with a perfect rivalry however we get multiplication.

You think Goten and Trunks are only a tier below Vegeta?
Base Trunks could barely move in 150x gravity which puts him around begging of Namek arc Goku. Even as a ssj I think he would get trounced by Frieza, lol.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Agreed. Although I'm on the opposite side of the fence, I believe that their spars with their elders, their fight against 18, and Piccolo's endless praise and astonishment at Goten and Trunks clearly imply them to be only one tier below their fathers (in the same form of course). Meaning that fusion works fine as just an addition of powers, Gotenks can still end up massively stronger than Goku if the numbers are something like this:

Goten and Trunks (beginning of training) - 7
Adult Gohan (calm) - 7
Vegeta - 8
Goku/Majin Vegeta - 9

This would make Gotenks a 14, numerous tiers above Goku, yet it doesn't even account for all their training (for the tournament and in the ROSAT). Collectively I think their gains should have been enough to put them at an eight, given Trunks' first spar with Vegeta. So that makes Gotenks a 16.

People always bring up the fact that Goten and Trunks aren't anywhere near Super Boo yet Gotenks was stronger then him, so fusion must be a massive multiplier. But that's ignoring a very important factor; Gotenks had SSJ3. Goten and Trunks were only SSJ1. SSJ1 Gotenks was about as innefective against Boo as you would think he'd be.

The ancillary material mucks things up. Like OP mentioned with Gogeta. But I chalk that up to the rival boost. Goku and Vegeta are perfect yin and yang whose strengths fill in the other's weaknesses. Their the ultimate rivals, so when the two strongest guys resolve to set aside themselves and their pride and join forces, it creates the ultimate warrior. Elder Kai said as much, when everyone was surprised that Vegetto ended up so strong, and Kaioshin assumed Potara was just that great. Elder Kai was quick to shut him down and explain that it was actually Goku and Vegeta who made the fusion so potent. Goten and Trunks didn't fill each other's holes and power each other's strength like that, they're too similar. They're more like partners then counterparts.

That's the idea with Gogeta and Vegetto IMO. Yes I know Goku and Vegeta weren't actually the number 1 strongest guys, don't nitpick. The point is that base fusion simply combines two people, with a perfect rivalry however we get multiplication.

You think Goten and Trunks are only a tier below Vegeta?
Base Trunks could barely move in 150x gravity which puts him around begging of Namek arc Goku. Even as a ssj I think he would get trounced by Frieza, lol.

Trunks probably wasn't used to the gravity at all since he's just a kid and probably doesn't spend much time there, plus Vegeta was sweating from working out in 150x despite being SSJ, so I wouldn't count that against Trunks.

[Steven Bloodriver]

Because in Toei-verse it seems incredibly OP, SSJ Gogeta is able to make a complete joke of Janemba who can dominate SSJ3 Goku easily, and SSJ4 Gogeta is stated to be tens of times stronger than Goku or Vegeta, yet Gotenks doesn't seem to be all that powerful compared to Goten and Trunks.

With the Fusion Dance, two ordinary people could become a threat to a lazy Frieza.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Because in Toei-verse it seems incredibly OP, SSJ Gogeta is able to make a complete joke of Janemba who can dominate SSJ3 Goku easily, and SSJ4 Gogeta is stated to be tens of times stronger than Goku or Vegeta, yet Gotenks doesn't seem to be all that powerful compared to Goten and Trunks.

With the Fusion Dance, two ordinary people could become a threat to a lazy Frieza.

Is this a joke? Average people are only like 4-5 in terms of power level, how the hell can they take Frieza by fusing?

[dragon boss z]

Agreed. Although I'm on the opposite side of the fence, I believe that their spars with their elders, their fight against 18, and Piccolo's endless praise and astonishment at Goten and Trunks clearly imply them to be only one tier below their fathers (in the same form of course). Meaning that fusion works fine as just an addition of powers, Gotenks can still end up massively stronger than Goku if the numbers are something like this:

Goten and Trunks (beginning of training) - 7
Adult Gohan (calm) - 7
Vegeta - 8
Goku/Majin Vegeta - 9

This would make Gotenks a 14, numerous tiers above Goku, yet it doesn't even account for all their training (for the tournament and in the ROSAT). Collectively I think their gains should have been enough to put them at an eight, given Trunks' first spar with Vegeta. So that makes Gotenks a 16.

People always bring up the fact that Goten and Trunks aren't anywhere near Super Boo yet Gotenks was stronger then him, so fusion must be a massive multiplier. But that's ignoring a very important factor; Gotenks had SSJ3. Goten and Trunks were only SSJ1. SSJ1 Gotenks was about as innefective against Boo as you would think he'd be.

The ancillary material mucks things up. Like OP mentioned with Gogeta. But I chalk that up to the rival boost. Goku and Vegeta are perfect yin and yang whose strengths fill in the other's weaknesses. Their the ultimate rivals, so when the two strongest guys resolve to set aside themselves and their pride and join forces, it creates the ultimate warrior. Elder Kai said as much, when everyone was surprised that Vegetto ended up so strong, and Kaioshin assumed Potara was just that great. Elder Kai was quick to shut him down and explain that it was actually Goku and Vegeta who made the fusion so potent. Goten and Trunks didn't fill each other's holes and power each other's strength like that, they're too similar. They're more like partners then counterparts.

That's the idea with Gogeta and Vegetto IMO. Yes I know Goku and Vegeta weren't actually the number 1 strongest guys, don't nitpick. The point is that base fusion simply combines two people, with a perfect rivalry however we get multiplication.

You think Goten and Trunks are only a tier below Vegeta?
Base Trunks could barely move in 150x gravity which puts him around begging of Namek arc Goku. Even as a ssj I think he would get trounced by Frieza, lol.

Trunks probably wasn't used to the gravity at all since he's just a kid and probably doesn't spend much time there, plus Vegeta was sweating from working out in 150x despite being SSJ, so I wouldn't count that against Trunks.

Vegeta was sweating because he was training. Even if he trained with no extra gravity he would get tired if he trained hard enough. Goten and Trunks were about even with first form Frieza tier fighters in their base, putting them weaker than end of Namek saga Goku, which makes sense. they shouldn't be as strong as ssj Namek saga Goku imo. It just doesn't make sense for them to be that strong with barely any training. Even future Trunks didn't reach that level until he was 17 and he was training and fighting the androids his whole life.

[TheUltimateNinja]

You think Goten and Trunks are only a tier below Vegeta?
Base Trunks could barely move in 150x gravity which puts him around begging of Namek arc Goku. Even as a ssj I think he would get trounced by Frieza, lol.

Trunks probably wasn't used to the gravity at all since he's just a kid and probably doesn't spend much time there, plus Vegeta was sweating from working out in 150x despite being SSJ, so I wouldn't count that against Trunks.

Vegeta was sweating because he was training. Even if he trained with no extra gravity he would get tired if he trained hard enough. Goten and Trunks were about even with first form Frieza tier fighters in their base, putting them weaker than end of Namek saga Goku, which makes sense. they shouldn't be as strong as ssj Namek saga Goku imo. It just doesn't make sense for them to be that strong with barely any training. Even future Trunks didn't reach that level until he was 17 and he was training and fighting the androids his whole life.

On the other hand, Goten is able to challenge Gohan and Gohan worries that at this rate the kids will surpass him soon, and after Majin Buu is released Piccolo says the kids are the only hope for the world even before fusion is mentioned.

[dragon boss z]

Trunks probably wasn't used to the gravity at all since he's just a kid and probably doesn't spend much time there, plus Vegeta was sweating from working out in 150x despite being SSJ, so I wouldn't count that against Trunks.

Vegeta was sweating because he was training. Even if he trained with no extra gravity he would get tired if he trained hard enough. Goten and Trunks were about even with first form Frieza tier fighters in their base, putting them weaker than end of Namek saga Goku, which makes sense. they shouldn't be as strong as ssj Namek saga Goku imo. It just doesn't make sense for them to be that strong with barely any training. Even future Trunks didn't reach that level until he was 17 and he was training and fighting the androids his whole life.

On the other hand, Goten is able to challenge Gohan and Gohan worries that at this rate the kids will surpass him soon, and after Majin Buu is released Piccolo says the kids are the only hope for the world even before fusion is mentioned.

Both Gohan's and Piccolo's statements are most likely referring to their potential. Goten and Trunks were namek tier at less than 10 years old with virtually no training. That is crazy. With Gohan getting weaker and them getting stronger they would of passed him eventuallys, and Piccolo may of been thinking of using the hyperbolic time chamber. If he trained those kids in their for a few years extremely intensely they would probably of been the strongest warriors alive (Goku and Vegeta were dead and Gohan was presumed dead). Especially if they both reached ssj2.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Vegeta was sweating because he was training. Even if he trained with no extra gravity he would get tired if he trained hard enough. Goten and Trunks were about even with first form Frieza tier fighters in their base, putting them weaker than end of Namek saga Goku, which makes sense. they shouldn't be as strong as ssj Namek saga Goku imo. It just doesn't make sense for them to be that strong with barely any training. Even future Trunks didn't reach that level until he was 17 and he was training and fighting the androids his whole life.

On the other hand, Goten is able to challenge Gohan and Gohan worries that at this rate the kids will surpass him soon, and after Majin Buu is released Piccolo says the kids are the only hope for the world even before fusion is mentioned.

Both Gohan's and Piccolo's statements are most likely referring to their potential. Goten and Trunks were namek tier at less than 10 years old with virtually no training. That is crazy. With Gohan getting weaker and them getting stronger they would of passed him eventuallys, and Piccolo may of been thinking of using the hyperbolic time chamber. If he trained those kids in their for a few years extremely intensely they would probably of been the strongest warriors alive (Goku and Vegeta were dead and Gohan was presumed dead). Especially if they both reached ssj2.

They could only spend 2 years max in the time chamber, so even if we're generous and assume they become 10x stronger from training in the time chamber, they would still have to be at least a quarter of Gohan's strength to surpass Buu.
Numbers:
Trunks & Goten: 2.5
Gohan: 10
Buu: 2,000
Trunks & Goten (Post RoSAT): 25
SSJ2 Trunks & Goten: 2,500

[dragon boss z]

On the other hand, Goten is able to challenge Gohan and Gohan worries that at this rate the kids will surpass him soon, and after Majin Buu is released Piccolo says the kids are the only hope for the world even before fusion is mentioned.

Both Gohan's and Piccolo's statements are most likely referring to their potential. Goten and Trunks were namek tier at less than 10 years old with virtually no training. That is crazy. With Gohan getting weaker and them getting stronger they would of passed him eventuallys, and Piccolo may of been thinking of using the hyperbolic time chamber. If he trained those kids in their for a few years extremely intensely they would probably of been the strongest warriors alive (Goku and Vegeta were dead and Gohan was presumed dead). Especially if they both reached ssj2.

They could only spend 2 years max in the time chamber, so even if we're generous and assume they become 10x stronger from training in the time chamber, they would still have to be at least a quarter of Gohan's strength to surpass Buu.
Numbers:
Trunks & Goten: 2.5
Gohan: 10
Buu: 2,000
Trunks & Goten (Post RoSAT): 25
SSJ2 Trunks & Goten: 2,500

I'm not sure what was exactly stated about the time chamber but in Super Goku and Vegeta went in for 3 years straight. I'm not sure if that's a plot hole or the time chamber changed or what.
And Goten and Trunks wouldn't need to reach Buu tier, they would just need to surpass Piccolo. Piccolo was the strongest living person on the planet at that point and he called Goten and Trunks their best hope. Hope doesn't equal success, he really didn't think they could do it until he learned about fusion.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Both Gohan's and Piccolo's statements are most likely referring to their potential. Goten and Trunks were namek tier at less than 10 years old with virtually no training. That is crazy. With Gohan getting weaker and them getting stronger they would of passed him eventuallys, and Piccolo may of been thinking of using the hyperbolic time chamber. If he trained those kids in their for a few years extremely intensely they would probably of been the strongest warriors alive (Goku and Vegeta were dead and Gohan was presumed dead). Especially if they both reached ssj2.

They could only spend 2 years max in the time chamber, so even if we're generous and assume they become 10x stronger from training in the time chamber, they would still have to be at least a quarter of Gohan's strength to surpass Buu.
Numbers:
Trunks & Goten: 2.5
Gohan: 10
Buu: 2,000
Trunks & Goten (Post RoSAT): 25
SSJ2 Trunks & Goten: 2,500

I'm not sure what was exactly stated about the time chamber but in Super Goku and Vegeta went in for 3 years straight. I'm not sure if that's a plot hole or the time chamber changed or what.
And Goten and Trunks wouldn't need to reach Buu tier, they would just need to surpass Piccolo. Piccolo was the strongest living person on the planet at that point and he called Goten and Trunks their best hope. Hope doesn't equal success, he really didn't think they could do it until he learned about fusion.

In Super the time chamber was recreated with no time limit, the old time chamber had a limit of 2 years. Also, they would need to reach Buu tier as that's the only way they can have any hope. Otherwise they'd just get killed instantly and Piccolo's statement would be meaningless.

[nickzambuto]

Agreed. Although I'm on the opposite side of the fence, I believe that their spars with their elders, their fight against 18, and Piccolo's endless praise and astonishment at Goten and Trunks clearly imply them to be only one tier below their fathers (in the same form of course). Meaning that fusion works fine as just an addition of powers, Gotenks can still end up massively stronger than Goku if the numbers are something like this:

Goten and Trunks (beginning of training) - 7
Adult Gohan (calm) - 7
Vegeta - 8
Goku/Majin Vegeta - 9

This would make Gotenks a 14, numerous tiers above Goku, yet it doesn't even account for all their training (for the tournament and in the ROSAT). Collectively I think their gains should have been enough to put them at an eight, given Trunks' first spar with Vegeta. So that makes Gotenks a 16.

People always bring up the fact that Goten and Trunks aren't anywhere near Super Boo yet Gotenks was stronger then him, so fusion must be a massive multiplier. But that's ignoring a very important factor; Gotenks had SSJ3. Goten and Trunks were only SSJ1. SSJ1 Gotenks was about as innefective against Boo as you would think he'd be.

The ancillary material mucks things up. Like OP mentioned with Gogeta. But I chalk that up to the rival boost. Goku and Vegeta are perfect yin and yang whose strengths fill in the other's weaknesses. Their the ultimate rivals, so when the two strongest guys resolve to set aside themselves and their pride and join forces, it creates the ultimate warrior. Elder Kai said as much, when everyone was surprised that Vegetto ended up so strong, and Kaioshin assumed Potara was just that great. Elder Kai was quick to shut him down and explain that it was actually Goku and Vegeta who made the fusion so potent. Goten and Trunks didn't fill each other's holes and power each other's strength like that, they're too similar. They're more like partners then counterparts.

That's the idea with Gogeta and Vegetto IMO. Yes I know Goku and Vegeta weren't actually the number 1 strongest guys, don't nitpick. The point is that base fusion simply combines two people, with a perfect rivalry however we get multiplication.

You think Goten and Trunks are only a tier below Vegeta?
Base Trunks could barely move in 150x gravity which puts him around begging of Namek arc Goku. Even as a ssj I think he would get trounced by Frieza, lol.

Gravity numbers are not consistent. You're calling out Trunks for struggling to move in his base form while ignoring the fact that Vegeta was also a Super Saiyan in order to move around. We don't see Vegeta even attempt his base at all, all we see in that scene are 1) when they were both in the same form, they moved with equal ease 2) Trunks explicitly gave Vegeta a hard time when they sparred. The intent of this scene, specifically paired with the scenes of Goten also giving Gohan a hard time, is pretty clear IMO.

[dragon boss z]

In Super the time chamber was recreated with no time limit, the old time chamber had a limit of 2 years. Also, they would need to reach Buu tier as that's the only way they can have any hope. Otherwise they'd just get killed instantly and Piccolo's statement would be meaningless.

Piccolo's statement was meaningless. He just said that because he knew out of everyone their they were the ones with the most potential. That's why he said they are their best hope. He never said "I think they could do it". He probably thought it was hopeless, but if they did have a small chance it was them.
Just look who was alive at that time. Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha are obvioiusly useless. 18 probably can't get much stronger since she is an androids. And Piccolo has been training for years and can't get strong very quickly anymore. Goten and Trunks barely tapped into their potential, therefore they were their best hope.

[TheUltimateNinja]

In Super the time chamber was recreated with no time limit, the old time chamber had a limit of 2 years. Also, they would need to reach Buu tier as that's the only way they can have any hope. Otherwise they'd just get killed instantly and Piccolo's statement would be meaningless.

Piccolo's statement was meaningless. He just said that because he knew out of everyone their they were the ones with the most potential. That's why he said they are their best hope. He never said "I think they could do it". He probably thought it was hopeless, but if they did have a small chance it was them.
Just look who was alive at that time. Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha are obvioiusly useless. 18 probably can't get much stronger since she is an androids. And Piccolo has been training for years and can't get strong very quickly anymore. Goten and Trunks barely tapped into their potential, therefore they were their best hope.

The kids shouldn't be too far below the adults, though. Goten is able to give Gohan a good workout and Trunks was able to land a blow on Vegeta pretty quickly. They're much stronger than the androids at the very least, as SSJ Trunks heavily suppresses his blast so it doesn't harm 18, yet she's still shocked by its power and says it's incredibly dangerous. She also states that the kids have outrageous power despite the fact that they were suppressed.

[dragon boss z]

In Super the time chamber was recreated with no time limit, the old time chamber had a limit of 2 years. Also, they would need to reach Buu tier as that's the only way they can have any hope. Otherwise they'd just get killed instantly and Piccolo's statement would be meaningless.

Piccolo's statement was meaningless. He just said that because he knew out of everyone their they were the ones with the most potential. That's why he said they are their best hope. He never said "I think they could do it". He probably thought it was hopeless, but if they did have a small chance it was them.
Just look who was alive at that time. Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha are obvioiusly useless. 18 probably can't get much stronger since she is an androids. And Piccolo has been training for years and can't get strong very quickly anymore. Goten and Trunks barely tapped into their potential, therefore they were their best hope.

The kids shouldn't be too far below the adults, though. Goten is able to give Gohan a good workout and Trunks was able to land a blow on Vegeta pretty quickly. They're much stronger than the androids at the very least, as SSJ Trunks heavily suppresses his blast so it doesn't harm 18, yet she's still shocked by its power and says it's incredibly dangerous. She also states that the kids have outrageous power despite the fact that they were suppressed.

Yes, they have outrageous power, but for kids. She wasn't expecting two kids less than 10 to be that strong. Do you realize how long it took Goku and Vegeta to reach that level? Besides them the entire saiyan race didn't even reach a power level of over 20,000. Frieza said he didn't think there would be anyone stronger than Captain Ginyu, and Ginyu only had a power level of 120,000. It's dangerous for kids to be that strong. And their ki blasts are dangerous because they could easily accidentally kill people with them.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Piccolo's statement was meaningless. He just said that because he knew out of everyone their they were the ones with the most potential. That's why he said they are their best hope. He never said "I think they could do it". He probably thought it was hopeless, but if they did have a small chance it was them.
Just look who was alive at that time. Krillin, Tien, and Yamcha are obvioiusly useless. 18 probably can't get much stronger since she is an androids. And Piccolo has been training for years and can't get strong very quickly anymore. Goten and Trunks barely tapped into their potential, therefore they were their best hope.

The kids shouldn't be too far below the adults, though. Goten is able to give Gohan a good workout and Trunks was able to land a blow on Vegeta pretty quickly. They're much stronger than the androids at the very least, as SSJ Trunks heavily suppresses his blast so it doesn't harm 18, yet she's still shocked by its power and says it's incredibly dangerous. She also states that the kids have outrageous power despite the fact that they were suppressed.

Yes, they have outrageous power, but for kids. She wasn't expecting two kids less than 10 to be that strong. Do you realize how long it took Goku and Vegeta to reach that level? Besides them the entire saiyan race didn't even reach a power level of over 20,000. Frieza said he didn't think there would be anyone stronger than Captain Ginyu, and Ginyu only had a power level of 120,000. It's dangerous for kids to be that strong. And their ki blasts are dangerous because they could easily accidentally kill people with them.

Even so, their feats still put them close to adults. Trunks lands a hit on Vegeta within seconds and Goten is able to challenge Gohan.

[DBZAOTA482]

Metamoran Fusion Multiplier
A = B

A + B = C x 10


There....

[TheUltimateNinja]

Metamoran Fusion Multiplier
A = B

A + B = C x 10


There....

This is wrong, Gogeta is stated to be tens/dozens of times stronger than Goku/Vegeta.