Things in the story that bother you

Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
PacificOceanDub
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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by PacificOceanDub » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:28 pm

When Bulma suggests, in the Trunks saga, that they find the dragon balls and ask the dragon to locate Gero's lab, Vegeta shouts at her and acts like it's the most ridiculous idea in the world. His argument is that, by the time they found the dragon balls, it would be too late. They have three years! Last time I checked, a 16 year old girl, a little boy and a pig found the dragon balls in less than three years, and now eight grown adults with the ability to fly around the earth can't do it?
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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by Zeru14 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 12:32 am

laserkid wrote:Honestly, the only thing that ever bothered me greatly was the change in romantic relationships from Bulma and Yamcha to Bulma and Vegeta, and even then just in the handling of it, it felt forced and contrived.

I will say I'm very appreciative of the recent movies and Super for making Bulma and Vegeta feel much more like a legitimate couple instead of convenient plot device as it did in the Cell and Buu arcs, so this issue has bothered me significantly less in recent times.

I just felt that for the couple that had basically been together since the begging of Dragon Ball to be dismissed with a hand wave and very minor explanation (Trunks states that Yamcha cheated on Bulma, but we've never seen this, but have seen attempts at the opposite) was a bit too under shown. I'm not saying that they should have stayed together, especially since Trunks (well, Future Trunks) is my favorite character, but there should have, in my opinion, been a better build up to the break up if you will.
Gotta admit, the Yamcha and Bulma ship sinking, was rough it was the first couple in the series and the longest running one, to have it end so a another SSJ to get into the series was lame.

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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by Almighty Majin » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:07 pm

Saiyan Saga:
The misuse of Raditz. (He was the older brother of the main protagonist of the series and he was thrown out so quickly! Such wasted potential.)
The lack of character development for Yajirobe. (He easily has the greatest potential out of the humans and he should have been involved more.)
Room of Spirit and Time. (as the OP stated above)

Namek Saga:
Toriyama forgetting tails were a thing. (Both Gohan and Vegeta never regrew their tails and there was never an in universe explanation for it. It would have come in handy for Vegeta here too a few times.)
Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha, and Chiaotzu not learning Kaioken. (Would have given more relevance to these characters.)

Android Saga:
Frieza and Cold showing up only to be killed off quickly.
Cold being wasted like Raditz.
Cell regenerating after Goku destroyed his upper body.
Cell not using Kaioken. (He should be able to use it!)
Androids 16-20 all being around or above Frieza's power and even SSJ Goku.

Majin Saga:
Goten's power (Trunks is excused as he was being harshly trained by Vegeta and had the gravity chamber, but Goten was trained by Chi Chi mainly)
Babidi's weak army (Dabura was the strongest fighter and he was around Cell's level, Pui Pui was below Frieza and Yakon wasn't that impressive either. Usually when each arc introduces initial villains, they turn out to be more impressive.)
Missed opportunity of using the Androids. (16 was never brought back for some reason and could have been utilized as a training partner for Vegeta along the 7 years. 17 is still alive, but we barely ever see him again.)

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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by Nejishiki » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:39 pm

PacificOceanDub wrote:When Bulma suggests, in the Trunks saga, that they find the dragon balls and ask the dragon to locate Gero's lab, Vegeta shouts at her and acts like it's the most ridiculous idea in the world. His argument is that, by the time they found the dragon balls, it would be too late. They have three years! Last time I checked, a 16 year old girl, a little boy and a pig found the dragon balls in less than three years, and now eight grown adults with the ability to fly around the earth can't do it?
I think you may have misunderstood Vegeta's outburst. He took offense to Bluma stopping the Artificial Humans before he could fight them. It wasn't related to how long it would take to locate Dragon Balls at all. If that's dialogue from another adaption, then I have to inform you he didn't originally complain about that. He threatened to kill her in response to that suggestion. The only one who originally agreed with her was Kuririn before they all settled on training and fighting instead.

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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by SaiyanZ » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:36 pm

-The arcs before Raditz having the side characters/human fighters accomplish very little with respect to Goku, something which is corrected in DBZ when numerous characters get stronger than him and have spotlight.
-Piccolo's powerups seem a little too OP
-Krillin crushing 18's controller to destroy her based on a kiss despite the fact that he is a grown man
-Kaioshin not telling about Buu's ability to absorb people and him not using mind reading on Yamu and Spopovich to find Babidi's hideout
-Super Saiyan God, even though the red form looks cool
-Resurrection 'F' and Zamasu arcs as a whole

I still think the manga is well written though, much more than what people give it credit for.
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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by Beerus-sama » Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:46 am

General
- Chichi's attitude.
- How everyone want/hope Goku to solve everything even if he isn't there or can't do it.

Cell Arc
- How much of an idiot Vegeta was.

Super
- That its kind of known that in a distant future (hopefully veeeeery distant) Goku and/or Vegeta will become actual "gods" in the dragon world replacing Beerus :?
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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by Power Metal » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:00 pm

The explanation of the potara fusion having a time limit for non-kais has bugged the shit outta me since it was revealed. With this explanation, what was the point of showing that a wish to Porunga could undo the fusion?

I just wish the fusion was permanent, Vegito returned to the main timeline, used a wish to defuse (it could've even been on the recent filler ep when everyone had a wish of their own).
This would also resolve the two versions of F.Trunks and F.Mai in their new timeline; just let them permanently fuse with their counterparts.
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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by TobyS » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:09 am

Power Metal wrote:The explanation of the potara fusion having a time limit for non-kais has bugged the shit outta me since it was revealed. With this explanation, what was the point of showing that a wish to Porunga could undo the fusion?
To explain how kibito and shin were able to unfuse and why elder kaioshin never did? Seems kinda obvious.

Also makes sense in universe protects the Kai's/the rest of the universe from two rowdy mortals who managed to get earrings and would otherwise be unbeatable.
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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by SaiyanGod117 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:21 pm

I don't like how there was barely any exploration in Z, I would've loved if Goku and co. went out of the boundaries of Earth. After the Cell Saga maybe; and just started exploring and interacting with the many different worlds and races. Dragon GT already did this ( or a least tried), but it was executed poorly.

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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by Envy » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:17 pm

Honestly, it's got to be the way that the SSJ transformation is handled post-Namek. I think it's a super cool transformation and I love it and still love DBZ after that point but the way that the Super Saiyan transformation was talked up as being this legendary transformation that only happens once in a very long time, it doesn't make sense for everyone and their dog to get it later, even if they trained.

Don't get me wrong, it would be odd to continue the story on without breaking that storyline, as having Goku being the only Super Saiyan would put Gohan and Vegeta in a very bad place when enemies as strong as Freeza or stronger appeared. So I suppose Toriyama just kind of drew himself into a corner, here.

Super Saiyan God is handled equally poorly, if not more poorly. One minute it's a transformation that can only be done when met with specific conditions. The next it's ingrained in Goku even though there's no visual showing of the SSG transformation. but then later on Super Saiyan Blue shows up which shows visual aspects, but does not require any specific conditions to be met. And then Vegeta has it, too. And then SSJ/SSJ2 Future Trunks is somehow able to stay in a fight in which SSB Goku and Vegeta are struggling. Huh?

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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by kinisking » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:49 pm

Beerus-sama wrote:General
- Chichi's attitude.
- How everyone want/hope Goku to solve everything even if he isn't there or can't do it.

Cell Arc
- How much of an idiot Vegeta was.

Super
- That its kind of known that in a distant future (hopefully veeeeery distant) Goku and/or Vegeta will become actual "gods" in the dragon world replacing Beerus :?
That hasn't been confirmed at all..

My issues are Super's power level inconsistencies, Gohan stopping his training again after the Boo saga ( in between cell and boo was understandable imo), Goku's heart stopped beating against king piccolo but then it suddenly starts again because of plot, humans and namekians not being able to catch up power level wise and more but I don't feel like listing everything.
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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by Kishido » Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:55 pm

Mystic power up.

Love how Gohan looks and everything but it was a cheap ass power up and after it brought a lot of discussions and problems... Ever since GT. And now still.

Currentky... Future Trunks... Damn it... That bothers me tot the extreme. It completely destroyed the arc for me... The form alone... Well OK even if they should try to explain it... But the Genkidama sword... no no

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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by RedShift » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:11 pm

Hmmm...
  • 1) Characters handling the idiot ball.
    2) General lack of world-building. Other planets & galaxies, the afterlife in general, and Demon Realm?
    3) I've always been fine with Goku & Vegeta being the main players, but the rest of the cast was made far too irrelevant to quickly & severely (especially Piccolo). Give them something to do, make things interesting.
    4) The lack of scale in battles. The series peaked with Freeza and no battle after has been so pyrotechnic (besides brief moments). Ki control is a lame excuse made up after the fact.
    5) Power scaling becoming truly absurd. I can wrap my head around SSJ Goku being about 4 times stronger than 100% Freeza by the end of 'Z', beyond that things just get stupid. Especially statements that Supreme Kai is 1000 times stronger than Freeza was, yet he's a total bitch.
    6) Not enough time spent on the characters training. Show them learning & testing new techniques, explaining existing ones and how things work. World building people!
    7) Stupid gag Characters like Hercule & Fat Majin Buu. I'm fine with humor, but these characters aren't interesting nor funny.
    8*) Dabura and the Demon Realm could have been something very cool, instead he's discarded when he could bring something totally new to the story.
    9) The movie specials not tying into the primary cannon at all.
    10) The lack of explanation of whatever God Ki is and how it's supposed to be so much better.
    11) Ridiculous fanservice wank of Future Trunks in Super, and Potara 'retcon'.

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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by Beerus-sama » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:55 pm

kinisking wrote:
Beerus-sama wrote:General
- Chichi's attitude.
- How everyone want/hope Goku to solve everything even if he isn't there or can't do it.

Cell Arc
- How much of an idiot Vegeta was.

Super
- That its kind of known that in a distant future (hopefully veeeeery distant) Goku and/or Vegeta will become actual "gods" in the dragon world replacing Beerus :?
That hasn't been confirmed at all..
Thats why I said "kind of", the manga did have Beerus saying that at the level Goku and Vegeta are there's still a lot of gap to become a Hakaishin following with Goku's "but I don't want to become that" :think: (chapter 15)
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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by Almighty Majin » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:31 pm

Something else that I forgot was Toriyama mentioning Makaioshins and other evil beings like that and then never utilizing them in the actual story. Where the hell are the Makaio and Makaioshins?

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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by kinisking » Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:35 pm

Beerus-sama wrote:
kinisking wrote:
Beerus-sama wrote:General
- Chichi's attitude.
- How everyone want/hope Goku to solve everything even if he isn't there or can't do it.

Cell Arc
- How much of an idiot Vegeta was.

Super
- That its kind of known that in a distant future (hopefully veeeeery distant) Goku and/or Vegeta will become actual "gods" in the dragon world replacing Beerus :?
That hasn't been confirmed at all..
Thats why I said "kind of", the manga did have Beerus saying that at the level Goku and Vegeta are there's still a lot of gap to become a Hakaishin following with Goku's "but I don't want to become that" :think: (chapter 15)
Wait, let me confirm first. Are you talking about them surpassing him in strength or taking his place in the God hierarchy? Them surpassing him in strength will probably happen, but I don't think they'll become actual gods.
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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by Beerus-sama » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:24 pm

kinisking wrote:
Beerus-sama wrote:
kinisking wrote: That hasn't been confirmed at all..
Thats why I said "kind of", the manga did have Beerus saying that at the level Goku and Vegeta are there's still a lot of gap to become a Hakaishin following with Goku's "but I don't want to become that" :think: (chapter 15)
Wait, let me confirm first. Are you talking about them surpassing him in strength or taking his place in the God hierarchy? Them surpassing him in strength will probably happen, but I don't think they'll become actual gods.
Its the latter the one that bothers me the most (and the one I was talking about). Although them surpassing Beerus in strenght is not something I like either :P

I do think that the moment they surppass Beerus in strength they will take his place as Hakaishin. Thats just a theory though.
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Re: Things in the story that bother you

Post by kinisking » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:41 pm

Beerus-sama wrote:
kinisking wrote:
Beerus-sama wrote: Thats why I said "kind of", the manga did have Beerus saying that at the level Goku and Vegeta are there's still a lot of gap to become a Hakaishin following with Goku's "but I don't want to become that" :think: (chapter 15)
Wait, let me confirm first. Are you talking about them surpassing him in strength or taking his place in the God hierarchy? Them surpassing him in strength will probably happen, but I don't think they'll become actual gods.
Its the latter the one that bothers me the most (and the one I was talking about). Although them surpassing Beerus in strenght is not something I like either :P

I do think that the moment they surppass Beerus in strength they will take his place as Hakaishin. Thats just a theory though.
I think you can rest easy. That's not in Goku's character at all. Vegeta is debatable but I doubt that too.
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