Why butcher Zamasu's character...

[emperior]

I have to agree about the fact Merged Zamasu stayed around far less than it should have, especially considering he was the final villain. What made DBZ villains amazing and memorable was the fact they had very long battles. While Black is surely memorable (I would say he is probably one of the best villains ever, if not the best of all the franchise, and by reflection Zamasu too) Merged Zamasu just didn't have enough time to truly be memorable. An entire episode of Vegetto fighting Merged Zamasu would have been epic. Episode 66 was epic though, but I can understand the criticism it received and I too admit it felt too rushed (story-wise). I blame Super's schedule for this, as we all saw how rushed 67's first part looked. Probably with a better schedule we would have gotten at least one more Merged Zamasu episode, as well as a better explanation of his power slowly going down once his halo was broken.

[Merged Zamasu]

And yes, i am obsessed with Zamasu.

No offense but yet you seem to completely misunderstand his narrative which has been strengthened even further near the end of the arc by this symbolism reflecting on his appearance.

I understand that deformed state represents Zamasu's inner hate for mortals. But did we really need it? Every villain in Dragonball, from Frieza to Buu, eventually became nothing more but raging beasts, to show their inner rage and hatred and whatever. But Zamasu was different. Zamasu didn't deserve that fate. Zamasu was a God. A God should be above the basic "evil and good" point of view. A God should be the one to judge, not the one to be judged. But i'm not complaining only about the fact they ruined his glorious appearance. They completely changed his character. Black was always elegant and calm. The only moment he truly became furious is when he let Trunks escape back to the Past for the first time. After that, Black (and Future Zamasu) always kept their composure and serenity, even when the odds were against them. When Future Zamasu was overwhelmed by Goku twice (Episode 61 and 64), he did feel a little nervous but didn't lose his sanity. When Black was defeated by Vegeta, he tried to find a strategy to beat him, he didn't go batshit crazy. What made Black and Zamasu so charming was also the fact they, like true Gods, never lost their calm, composure, and elegance. If Merged Zamasu is a mixture of Black and Future Zamasu's personalities, why didn't he keep the elegance and calm (even in difficult situations) that made Black and Future Zamasu so unique? Merged Zamasu acted completely out of character, unlike Black, who tried to strategize when he was defeated, Merged Zamasu went full retard more when Goku dared to overwhelm him.

I really like this character (I also like Black of course, but i found Merged Zamasu so epic when i first saw Episode 64's preview). I don't necessarly hate everything about his deformed state, and i think he was the greatest villain in Dragon Ball, especially after the caos and destruction he brough all by himself in Episode 67. But his potential was massively wasted, and the writing towards the end of the Arc (mostly Episode 66) was really abysmal. Merged Zamasu shouldn't have screamed like a fool and basically lose all traits that made him a God. He should have kept the defining trait that had made him so divine: the willpower, the great tactical genius Black possessed, the elegance and composure Black kept in spite of defeat. Honestly, did we really need an additional form that showed how Merged Zamasu was all evil and edgy in his soul? We didn't, because we already knew that. Episode 66 should have been like Episode 65. Episode 65's Zamasu was a REAL God, someone who looks down, someone who decides who lives and who dies. Someone whose intelligence, wisdom and nobility are immense, and thus is a revered being, a divine being. Episdoe 66's Zamasu is just a purple crazy fool who does nothing but scream "I AM A GOD!!!!". He lost all traits that made him so powerful and godly to begin with, to become yet another Frieza who throws a tantrum whenever he sees Goku.

Sure, when Zamasu turned into a deformed abomination, we finally saw him for what he truly is, a monster (which is arguable, since mortals aren't that good either, but let's pass over this one). But was it worth it? To give us this form that shows "How Zamasu is evil and stuff" (Which we already knew by the way) we lost a villain who could have truly been a God, and acted like a God. Zamasu died in Episode 65, i refuse to believe the Zamasu we saw in Episode 66, that screaming animal, is the fusion of two of the greatest genius, revered even amongst the Supreme Kais.

[Lord Frieza]

At then end of the day its all down to a matter of taste, some like myself like it, while others like yourself dont.

Dose that make ether side right or wrong? No. You have a right to your opinions and what you like is just as valid as what I dont like, and vice versa.

[Merged Zamasu]

At then end of the day its all down to a matter of taste, some like myself like it, while others like yourself dont.

Dose that make ether side right or wrong? No. You have a right to your opinions and what you like is just as valid as what I dont like, and vice versa.

What is your point? I'm very well aware it's my opinion.

[Lord Frieza]

At then end of the day its all down to a matter of taste, some like myself like it, while others like yourself dont.

Dose that make ether side right or wrong? No. You have a right to your opinions and what you like is just as valid as what I dont like, and vice versa.

What is your point? I'm very well aware it's my opinion.

My point is that there is no point.

[Merged Zamasu]

At then end of the day its all down to a matter of taste, some like myself like it, while others like yourself dont.

Dose that make ether side right or wrong? No. You have a right to your opinions and what you like is just as valid as what I dont like, and vice versa.

What is your point? I'm very well aware it's my opinion.

My point is that there is no point.

You're supposed to share your opinion on the Forum, like i just did. So, apparently, there is indeed a point.

[Lord Frieza]

What is your point? I'm very well aware it's my opinion.

My point is that there is no point.

You're supposed to share your opinion on the Forum, like i just did. So, apparently, there is indeed a point.

Let me explain, you and I have both shared an opinion, as have other here. However these are all opinions based on personal taste.

There are no facts to such a subject, at least none that are scientifically based. So after we have all said what we think and said what we think about what we each think one of two things will happen, you ether gain new insight based on the views of others or you simple agree to disagree.

Edit: I use the word "You" here in a general sense and not at a specific individual.

So I am making no point, I merley followed this this type of topic/discussion to its logical end.

[Freeza9000]

Personally, like many users have said on this thread, I relish the irony behind the deformed state. It really goes to show how Zamasu is no different from the mortals he so despised such as that one Barbarian. In this purple deformed muscular form, he really acts no different from a Barbarian. He's just a lunatic monster constantly ranting about how "great" his godhood is and only using his violence to prove how great it is. I also find it quite karmic that he lost his beauty he once had and constantly bragged about it, only for it to be lost in the end. Hell, even in his "beautiful state", he still amounts to nothing but a trash talking asshole using nothing but his violence to prove how "great" he is.

[Freeza9000]

This is usually an indicator for bad villains to me, so many times have I seen someone get power and then degenerate into some goo like liquid

Since when has repetition been a bad thing? As a matter of fact, nothing's that original anymore.

[Gog]

But they didn't the beautiful irony with Zamasu's character is that he is a being who strove to become the 'perfect' god and cleanse the twelve universe's of mortals, even taking in the sins of the mortals through Goku's body, which we even got a crying scene about. However Zamasu and black completely botched the fusion, so merged Zamasu turning into purple sludge man was not a matter of if, but 'when'.

The scene was meant to emphasize that Zamasu wasn't that different from the ningen he exterminated.

[Chuquita]

I was dissatisfied with how he ended. Blowing him up wasn't satisfying to me. I think a karmic punishment in the vein of what happened to Freeza (though not identical - they're each different characters) would've been satisfying. Like some kind of forced afterlife community service or something.

[SaiyanZ]

This is usually an indicator for bad villains to me, so many times have I seen someone get power and then degenerate into some goo like liquid

Since when has repetition been a bad thing? As a matter of fact, nothing's that original anymore.

I'm not complaining about the repetition, I'm noting the fact that every villain I've seen that has "melted" is not very good imo.

[Merged Zamasu]

But they didn't the beautiful irony with Zamasu's character is that he is a being who strove to become the 'perfect' god and cleanse the twelve universe's of mortals, even taking in the sins of the mortals through Goku's body, which we even got a crying scene about. However Zamasu and black completely botched the fusion, so merged Zamasu turning into purple sludge man was not a matter of if, but 'when'.

The scene was meant to emphasize that Zamasu wasn't that different from the ningen he exterminated.

My greatest gripe with Merged Zamasu is that he was just made a joke towards the end of Episode 65/Episode 66. I still struggle to believe Goku, all by himself, completely overwhelmed a guy who doesn't only have immortality, but also endless strenght and willpower. Oh, and i forgot to mention Goku had been greatly injured twice before that beam struggle. Let's not even mention Trunks defeating Merged Zamasu when he stood no chance against Black. I guess the power of 10/20 Humans and 2 injured Base Form Sayans makes you able to stand up to a God. Uh, interesting.

I feel like the whole Merged Zamasu's character was rushed and could have been handled far better. If they really wanted to show Zamasu's "ugly form", they should have just left half of his face purple and be done with it, there was no reason to also make him grow his arm to the point he looked like a clunky turd. He had his cool moments (like the "SON GOKUYEAHHH!!"), but it's preposterous the guy who is supposed to be the greatest threat the Universe has ever faced appeared in only 2 episodes. To put this in perspective, imagine if the Frieza and Goku fight on Namek had lasted for only 2/3 episodes...

But hey, it took them decades to bring back Frieza, and they did that only because he was the most popular villain by far. Farewell Zamasu, you will be remembered as the character who had the most potential, but was overshadowed by fan-favourites like Goku, Trunks and Vegeta.

[Chuquita]

I think it's partially due to Super's pacing in general. Like we don't even get training arcs anymore like Z had.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Symbolism. As the fight wears on the heroes crack the facade of Zamasu's rants of justice and paradise, chipping away at his divine judgement, revealing him for what he truly is by the end of the arc. As Gowasu states, it's his inner conflict being brought front and centre.

Exactly! His inner conflict manifested into reality it was brilliant. That was perhaps the most well written thing in that episode.

Also Merged Zamasu had sufficient screentime no need to unnecessarily elongate it.

[PsionicWarrior]

A God should be the one to judge, not the one to be judged.

Gowasu disagrees with both you and Zamasu, the role of God is not to judge but to simply look over mortals and eventually try to guide them through signs, Zamasu, to fool his master lied to him by telling him how he reconsidered his point of view and found himself ashamed of his former thoughts, in the end he ends up murdering him instead lol

They completely changed his character.

No, Zamasu got a truckload of character development but through too few episodes, so everything feels rushed but the process he goes through is completely logical and relevant to the character IMO
Personally I think the moment where he lost sanity is after he escaped the Mafuba, but he was already struggling for a while against the for him inconceivable fact mere mortals could stand up to him lol

What made Black and Zamasu so charming was also the fact they, like true Gods, never lost their calm, composure, and elegance.

What IMO makes Zamasu so interesting is that he goes through a journey from promising Kaio to succeed the Supreme Kai into one of the most insane, despicable and sadistic villain of the franchise lol
The problem is the arc had too few episodes, his character development went through many stages but some of the most crucial moments like him after escaping the Mafuba were shown for no more than a couple of seconds, did anyone say Super feels rushed I think he's right lol

Merged Zamasu acted completely out of character, unlike Black, who tried to strategize when he was defeated

Zamasu IS Black, they are the SAME, him losing his temper as the episodes went on was him being infuriated by the fact mere mortals could stand up to him lol

Honestly, did we really need an additional form that showed how Merged Zamasu was all evil and edgy in his soul? We didn't, because we already knew that.

It does accentuate the symbolism, the dude went so deep in madness and contradictions that his mental has an impact on his body, + there was Gowasu speculating with the merging of his immortal body with Goku's, so I don't know if it wasn't needed, but it certainly contributed to the narrative, retrospectively I wish Trunks would have had the same treatment about his LSSJ-like wtf form lol

But his potential was massively wasted, and the writing towards the end of the Arc (mostly Episode 66) was really abysmal. Merged Zamasu shouldn't have screamed like a fool and basically lose all traits that made him a God

It was doomed to end like this, it's the whole journey of Zamasu, a fallen God lol
I do agree his potential wasn't expanded enough, if you ask me the arc could have benefited from 20 more episodes or so lol

Someone whose intelligence, wisdom and nobility are immense

Zamasu clearly lacked wisdom though lol

Zamasu was a REAL God

Calm down mate

Sure, when Zamasu turned into a deformed abomination, we finally saw him for what he truly is, a monster (which is arguable, since mortals aren't that good either, but let's pass over this one)

LOL

i refuse to believe the Zamasu we saw in Episode 66, that screaming animal, is the fusion of two of the greatest genius, revered even amongst the Supreme Kais

Technically the fusion of one (narcissistic) genius with himself lol but yes that's exactly what happened, it should just have lasted longer to follow better Zamasu's mental process and final decadence, at this point they were basically forced to accentuate the symbolism visually for relevance lol

[Merged Zamasu]

Symbolism. As the fight wears on the heroes crack the facade of Zamasu's rants of justice and paradise, chipping away at his divine judgement, revealing him for what he truly is by the end of the arc. As Gowasu states, it's his inner conflict being brought front and centre.

Exactly! His inner conflict manifested into reality it was brilliant. That was perhaps the most well written thing in that episode.

Also Merged Zamasu had sufficient screentime no need to unnecessarily elongate it.

I might understand that the whole "He became the very thing he swore to destroy" clichè was very cool because it's the first time we've had a villain like that (in Dragonball). But don't you think too they went a little too far? Half his face made up of purple juice was enough, i don't they think they also had to turn him into a slow, clunky, derpy giant.

I would also disagree with your last statement. Merged Zamasu made his debut in the last 2 minutes of Episode 64, was one of the main characters in Episodes 65-66 and appeared for about 12 minutes in Episode 67. The most threatening villain in the entire series, whose creation had been hinted several times throughout the Arc (Remember the promo image? WIth Black's potara right in the front, radiating with light?), appeared for 2 episodes and a half. I'd say it was pretty rushed.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

From what I gather, your objection to the designs seems to amount to "He's this super cool guy and I don't like how he wasn't treated with total reverence in every single aspect!" However, that seems to be a consistent factor in this gimmick you do, so I'll forgive it. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

The actual reason he looked how he did was to give a visual metaphor of his fall from grace, from godhood, along with his inner conflict. From an in-universe perspective, it's a visual manifestation of his mixing of incompatible powers. That's it, it's nothing too ridiculous or complex.

[Merged Zamasu]

A God should be the one to judge, not the one to be judged.

Gowasu disagrees with both you and Zamasu, the role of God is not to judge but to simply look over their existence and eventually try to guide them through signs, Zamasu, to fool his master lied to him by telling him how he reconsidered his point of view and found himself ashamed of his former thoughts, in the end he ends up murdering him instead lol

They completely changed his character.

No, Zamasu got a truckload of character development but through too few episodes, so everything feels rushed but the process he goes through is completely logical and relevant to the character IMO
Personally I think the moment where he lost sanity is after he escaped the Mafuba, but he was already struggling for a while against the for him inconceivable fact mere mortals could stand up to him lol

What made Black and Zamasu so charming was also the fact they, like true Gods, never lost their calm, composure, and elegance.

What IMO makes Zamasu so interesting is that he goes through a journey from promising Kaio to succeed the Supreme Kai into one of the most insane, despicable and sadistic villain of the franchise lol
The problem is the arc had too few episodes, his character development went through many stages but some of the most crucial moments like him after escaping the Mafuba were shown for no more than a couple of seconds, did anyone say Super feels rushed I think he's right lol

Merged Zamasu acted completely out of character, unlike Black, who tried to strategize when he was defeated

Zamasu IS Black, they are the SAME, him losing his temper as the episodes went on was him being infuriated by the fact mere mortals could stand up to him lol

Honestly, did we really need an additional form that showed how Merged Zamasu was all evil and edgy in his soul? We didn't, because we already knew that.

It does accentuate the symbolism, the dude went so deep in madness and contradictions that his mental has an impact on his body, + there was Gowasu speculating with the merging of his immortal body with Goku's, so I don't know if it wasn't needed, but it certainly contributed to the narrative, retrospectively I wish Trunks would have had the same treatment about his LSSJ-like wtf form lol

But his potential was massively wasted, and the writing towards the end of the Arc (mostly Episode 66) was really abysmal. Merged Zamasu shouldn't have screamed like a fool and basically lose all traits that made him a God

It was doomed to end like this, it's the whole journey of Zamasu, a fallen God lol
I do agree his potential wasn't expanded enough, if you ask me the arc could have benefited from 20 more episodes or so lol

Someone whose intelligence, wisdom and nobility are immense

Zamasu clearly lacked wisdom though lol

Zamasu was a REAL God

Calm down mate

Sure, when Zamasu turned into a deformed abomination, we finally saw him for what he truly is, a monster (which is arguable, since mortals aren't that good either, but let's pass over this one)

LOL

i refuse to believe the Zamasu we saw in Episode 66, that screaming animal, is the fusion of two of the greatest genius, revered even amongst the Supreme Kais

Technically the fusion of one (narcissistic) genius with himself lol but yes that's exactly what happened, it should just have lasted longer to follow better Zamasu's mental process and final decadence, at this point they were basically forced to accentuate the symbolism visually for relevance lol

- Gowasu is just an incompetent fool. The duty of a God is to defeat evil, as Gowasu in the end admitted. Mortals, who use violence for their own gains, who abuse the gifts of the Gods and disrespect the Universe, and do not learn from their mistakes, are evil. Because of the Gods' incompetence, who hide behind the "A God's duty is to create, not destroy", Frieza, Frost, Buu and many other cruel fools were allowed to reign free and cause havoc throughout the Universe;

- Zamasu's backstory was not explored at all. We know he was a Shinjin from Kaishin, that he trained under Gowasu because he wanted to learn what "Justice" is, we know he is a fighting prodigy and that he is considered a genius even amongst Supreme Kais. That's it, that is not an in-depth backstory, that's just 2 informations put before you so that the character might appear somewhat interesting. We know Zamasu observed many mortals before witnessing the Babarians. What planets did he see? What mortals did he watch? Zamasu wanted to learn more about the concept of "Justice", and so accepted to train under Gowasu. Why was Zamasu obsessed with following the justice of the Gods? Was he perhaps hurt or abused by the mortals before training under Gowasu? Did perhaps his closest friend on Kaishin put in him mind the idea of "Serving the God's justice?". Zamasu's backstory is not explored at all, as we know nothing about him but a few informations. Black's backstory was expanded upon, as it turned out he is Zamasu. But Zamasu himself didn't have an in-depth backstory at all;

- I was referring to Merged Zamasu. Black NEVER lost his calm. He got owned by Trunks? He didn't despair. He got owned by Vegeta? He tried to understand where he miscalculated. His buddy just got owned? He considered all possible options and decided there was one choice left. Merged Zamasu got owned by Trunks and Vegeta? Well, it's GG i guess, oh gosh there is no way he will ever recover;

- Zamasu (i'm talking about Black here) was very wise. He had a perfect plan. He knew the Gods would thwart his efforts, and so he eliminated them. He knew Goku's body would be a fantastic weapon to use against mortals, and so he wished to possess it. He knew that, by killing Mai and Bulma, Trunks would have grown stronger, resulting in himself becoming stronger. He knew that Fusion was the last chance they had at the Zero-Mortals Plan. Black was a psycopath, but he for sure didn't lack wisdom, as his plan hardly had any flaw. Black's only mistake was not wishing also for immortality, but then he would have been unstoppable and there wouldn't be any Merged Zamasu at all. And mortals aren't good for the Universe. Tell me, what good did Frieza, Frost, Buu, the Sayans, the Babarians, Hit, Gero, etc... do towards the Universe? Besides, Zamasu wanted to create a perfect world for the Gods, a most noble desire.

[PsionicWarrior]

Cheers man you make great points but you are completely biased towards Zamasu's own ideals and away from the actual character, you do realize he's the villain, not Goku and the others, right?