Does anyone else think Super is awful?

[Doctor.]

(DON'T FUCK IT UP SEASON 3!)

They're gonna fuck it up. As much of a trainwreck R2 was, the ending was perfect. R3's existence makes the ending pointless.

[Hellspawn28]

Agreed. Western's don't know the bad things from that era of anime cause we never saw it. With the digital age and Crunchyroll we see EVERYTHING that airs every season. Back then we only saw what was localized, of which were the stuff that appealed to the Western market. I.E. Shonen, action, cyberpunk, western.

Not true since there was anime fans long before the Toonami/Pokemon era started. Anime fans had to deal with the garbage release from that era too like M.D Geist (I admit is a guilty pleasure of mine), Angel Cop (Same with M.D Geist), Kimera, Cipher, Judge, Wild Cardz, Psychic Wars, Dark Cat, Virus Buster Serge, Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei, Tekken OVA and many others. People on this site like Kunzait 83 was watching anime and reading manga before most of the people here was born and did saw some pretty bad anime from that era too.

[SaiyanZ]

Yes I find it awful. BoG and RoF were done better in Super, but some moment and episodes were a chore to watch, like the fact the Beerus fight was extended for 5 eps with nothing but ep longs struggles offset by horrible music and plastic looking character models. The Universe 6 tournament was very meh imo, the Botamo match was a chore to watch, the Frost thing was way too slow, the "cool" moments weren't very cool including Vegeta, his Saiyan pride "lesson" to Cabba was laughably bad and SSjB xKK10 whatever is just so over the top and dumb for DB standards. The Zamasu arc is jut downright bad imo, from nonsensical powerscaling to a contradictory and terribly written villain in Zamasu.

In general, I just don't think this is a natural continuation of DB and Z, from both an anime and manga standpoint. The mood and atmosphere I expect from a Toriyama work is not present at all in this series; well, thats not entirely true, I think its there in very small spurts, something as minuscule as Whis being revealed as an angel and the androgynous look gives me a very specific Toriyama vibe. I also think characters are not themselves, Goku is way too dumbed down and Vegeta is back to PMS mode and fuck Kakarot. Beerus and Whis are foodie one trick ponies now; Beerus's Hakai moment to Zamasu was also very forced and just horribly told. I think that best describes it: that in itself represents Super, a caricature of Dragon Ball....I hope that makes sense lol.

[TekTheNinja]

Story telling as high quality as Hunter X Hunter and Fullmetal Alchemist?

FMA has got to be the most overrated anime ever. And it's in my top 5-6 so I'm not biased against it or anything. People think any show that takes itself seriously, is somehow deeply complex. FMA is no more complex than any other shonen. Elrich brothers try to find a philosopher's stone. It's just like any another shonen. MCs have a goal in mind, but the show is about the journey not the goal itself.

Einstein was a complete goofball (and I'm not comparing DB to Einstein), but he was much more complex as a person than some 17 year old emo kid who thinks the world hates him. Taking yourself seriously does not make you complex.

Except you're ignoring why FMA (My number 1 favorite show) is so love. The characters are all amazing and work well off of each other. It takes itself seriously, but not too seriously. (I don't see your comparison to it being an emo serious show when it totally knows how and when to have a laugh) The story begins simply, BUT complicates as it goes on and besides, it's not about how complicated the synopsis is. It's about how well the story is TOLD. And the story is told wonderfully. I mean tournament arcs are some of my favorites (Chunin exams, Dark Tournament, Every Tenkaichi Budokai arc, HxH's hunter exam, The as of now manga only tournament in My Hero Academia, etc...) And they have as simple as a plot can get. Win tournament. I mean there's usually a bit more too it than that, but it's mainly "Win tournament".

[Faisal Shourov]

Code Geass

Seriously? Code Geass is a complete and utter trainwreck. So is Steins;Gate but I didn't mention that one because as a whole it still manages to be better than Super, Code Geass doesn't, however.

Steins gate is trainwreck? What is Super then? LMAO

[Gog]

Dragon ball super is a fff~iiinnne show when it manages to get its shit together. Just who here is compering it to Full metal alchemist?

[TekTheNinja]

Code Geass

Seriously? Code Geass is a complete and utter trainwreck. So is Steins;Gate but I didn't mention that one because as a whole it still manages to be better than Super, Code Geass doesn't, however.

I mean I don't want to insult your taste, but you're the outlier here. Most people including me, think Code Geass and Steins;Gate are fucking fantastic shows.

[DragonHermit]

That title belongs to Sword Art Online (And much of the rest of the Fantasy World genre) and I doubt I'll ever be convinced otherwise. If my avatar didn't show a little but of bias then I don't know what will. I think why FMA is so well regarded is it's characters (Among soundtrack and animation), it's one of the few shonen that makes every character count and never forgets about them. It's also aside from Alchemy, quite a realistic anime with it's depictions of war and racism. If FMA was just about the Elric's, it would be a lot more boring (Hence FMA 2003).

And isn't every TV show about the journey more then the ending? And I think FMA does it's ending quite well, much better then other Bones shows. Plus at least it was a Shonen that had a satisfying complete conclusion. Not cancelled, infinite hiatuses or milked to infinity.

Except SAO is a more of a running joke. While FMA has cult like status, as if though Plato came back from the grave and rewrote it himself.

As I said, FMA just takes itself more seriously than other shonen and has good animation/music. Its themes really aren't that complex. Even DB and One Piece have dealt with racism. I think One Piece dealt with racism much better than any anime show I've seen.

[NintendoBlaze53]

That title belongs to Sword Art Online (And much of the rest of the Fantasy World genre) and I doubt I'll ever be convinced otherwise. If my avatar didn't show a little but of bias then I don't know what will. I think why FMA is so well regarded is it's characters (Among soundtrack and animation), it's one of the few shonen that makes every character count and never forgets about them. It's also aside from Alchemy, quite a realistic anime with it's depictions of war and racism. If FMA was just about the Elric's, it would be a lot more boring (Hence FMA 2003).

And isn't every TV show about the journey more then the ending? And I think FMA does it's ending quite well, much better then other Bones shows. Plus at least it was a Shonen that had a satisfying complete conclusion. Not cancelled, infinite hiatuses or milked to infinity.

Except SAO is a more of a running joke. While FMA has cult like status, as if though Plato came back from the grave and rewrote it himself.

As I said, FMA just takes itself more seriously than other shonen and has good animation/music. Its themes really aren't that complex. Even DB and One Piece have dealt with racism. I think One Piece dealt with racism much better than any anime show I've seen.

You clearly don't remember 2012. At this point SAO is a running gag, but it was praised to hell and back in 2012. FMA:B still almost 7 years later is regarded as one of the most well constructed anime for a reason, it's hype hasn't died down, surely there must be a reason for that? It's cause it's good. FMA has never taken itself more seriously then some other edge shonen, Attack On Titan for example or Soul Eater. Comparing FMA to Dragon Ball in terms of quality is just misguided, FMA is only a shonen in demographic, it features very few shonen tropes aside from Edward being a on the surface typical shonen protagonist. Also when the hell did Dragon Ball tackle racism?

[Cipher]

It's Dragon Ball. It's Shonen. What are we comparing it to in order to say it's awful?

Previous Dragon Ball material?

I mean, I don't know what everybody else was doing. My expectations for it are based entirely on its success or failure in capturing and building upon what I have always loved about the series.

Both FMAs were fun genre shows, for what it's worth. Though I never finished the second one (I know it's an accurate manga adaptation and probably wound up the better of the two). They're not Earth-shatteringly good, but I have nothing bad to say about them. That said, I don't think there's a single reason to be comparing them to Dragon Ball anything?

In general, I just don't think this is a natural continuation of DB and Z, from both an anime and manga standpoint. The mood and atmosphere I expect from a Toriyama work is not present at all in this series; well, thats not entirely true, I think its there in very small spurts, something as minuscule as Whis being revealed as an angel and the androgynous look gives me a very specific Toriyama vibe. I also think characters are not themselves, Goku is way too dumbed down and Vegeta is back to PMS mode and fuck Kakarot. Beerus and Whis are foodie one trick ponies now; Beerus's Hakai moment to Zamasu was also very forced and just horribly told. I think that best describes it: that in itself represents Super, a caricature of Dragon Ball....I hope that makes sense lol.

I'm pretty on-board with this.

Super is an odd beast that I think more fully represents the fandom's favorite "good ideas with poor exeuction" meme than GT ever did. Ultimately it seems to really reflect the awkward writing process it's been saddled with: Toriyama outlines being fleshed out and scripted by a stable of rushed Toei writers. As a result, you have little gems that feel as weird and daring as anything Toriyama's ever done -- the capricious gods, the designs, a gag here or there, the ending of the Trunks arc, etc. -- but very little lands in execution. From the visuals (Yamamuro's stiff designs and its consistently godawful color palette) to the character-writing to the timing of action and comedy beats, it's nearly impossible to not think somewhere in the back of your mind about how differently it would be executed under Toriyama's pen. Not that he has any interest in taking on that volume of work himself at this point.

Add to that the few elements baked into its scenario that will always keep it feeling uncharacteristically safe and reverential of past material -- chief among them the decision to not move forward in time, and having to work with characters whose arcs have been complete for twenty years -- which affect even Toriyama's outline, and it rarely feels wholly satisfying either as a consistently executed show on its own or a sequel to the series it follows.

Give me a few more unexpected twists like 67 and an ending that really uses the steadily building god mythos to add something to the way we interpret the series, and I think I'll have something to recommend and revisit it for, but I find it a frequently frustrating experience as a whole. There are weeks I skip it without thinking twice. At this point it consists of some really high highs and a lot of unbearable lows.

[Doctor.]

Code Geass

Seriously? Code Geass is a complete and utter trainwreck. So is Steins;Gate but I didn't mention that one because as a whole it still manages to be better than Super, Code Geass doesn't, however.

Steins gate is trainwreck? What is Super then? LMAO

Not a trainwreck because it was never good to begin with. I said S;G was better than Super so I don't see what your issue here is.

I mean I don't want to insult your taste, but you're the outlier here. Most people including me, think Code Geass and Steins;Gate are fucking fantastic shows.

A lot of people also think Sword Art Online and Attack on Titan are good shows. Why does that matter to me?

[SSJ Human]

Dragon ball super is a fff~iiinnne show when it manages to get its shit together. Just who here is compering it to Full metal alchemist?

I'm not but someone probably is. I'm comparing it to the other parts of the franchise.

I don't think it's awful, but I must admit that it has disappointed me.


The first two arcs I had seen in movie form, but as it did some things differently (dancing/cooking Vegeta, Ginyu returns) and it was for an audience that hadn't seen the films I can't really complain about those.

The tournament arc was fairly interesting and epic.

The Black Goku arc was a mixed bag for me. It started out great then became dragging and overlong like the Buu saga.

This new arc seems to be an interesting one, but I'll need to see more of it.


The thing to note is that DB's story is fairly simple, and hosts a wide variety of characters and some twists which we like/dislike, depending on our own point of view. It all comes down to our point of view, as Obi-Wan said.

I'd seen the films as well and skipped them for the most part until recently getting curious and watching them. I saw most of the BOG stuff until whenever the Goku vs Beerus fight started, causing me to lose interest.

My problems with that are the fact that it false advertised Boo and Piccolo in its poster and that it again did what I've been hating the entire run of this series which is making most other characters irrelevant.

I thought the first part of the Future Trunks Arc was okay and it started getting messy when Fusion Zamasu showed up and that was mainly due to it being rushed after that and the ending.

[omaro34]

Its not awful, but it could be so much better. The hard schedule for animators isn't helping either. To me, Super looks bad with the two re-telling arcs, mainly because that was a chore to go through. The RoF arc had downright awful animation, and i'll never forget that horrific episode 5 animation of the BOG arc. The U6 arc was alright but it didn't live up to the hype because they set everything up for a Goku and Vegeta fest which was annoying, and the only real tough guy on U6 that posed a true challenge was Hit. Magetta was alright be he was no real game changer.

The Trunks arc had an amazing start; that first episode was extremely well done, I don't think Super gets enough credit for that. But with the confusing time travel story, and the strange ending where Trunks & Mai go back to a timeline where they themselves are present is awfully unfinished. It was so unsatisfying to me which is why I think they will return.

This Universal Survival Arc has an insane amount of pressure for the characters because of the stakes, and the hype is real throughout the community. For some people, this upcoming arc is Super's last stand, and it is for me. If it ends up being a perfect example of the trend which is a great potential/idea but poor execution, then you won't see me on Super episode review threads as I won't watch them anymore. They need to visit Planet Salad too.

[HybridSaiyan]

The art / animation 90% of the time is awful, as well as the battle scenes.
Story is probably its only strong point. I'll always stand by Z and say it's a million times better. It offers more, leaves us with more and gets the goosebumps going.

[emperior]

It's not awful but it could have been so much better with just a few changes here and there.
If they could re-release it with fixed art and animation, with some things explained better (including how much time passes), some inconsistencies fixed, maybe adding some episodes in the process. I bet the show would be very, very good because the story is good.

Here's a few changes here and there I would make:

Resurrection of Freezer

- It is stated Goku uses God Ki in his base when fighting Freezer

Champa Arc

- Goku and Vegeta's training for the tournament lasts a lot more by removing a lot of parts of episode 30
- No Uub mention
- Goku and Vegeta's beards look more Toriyama-esque (not very important)
- Whis comments Vegeta isn't at full power because he is visibly tired from his fights
- Audience comments that they cannot sense Goku’s ki when in base against Hit
- Beerus doesn't show any concern over Kaio-Ken x10 Goku, but still says it’s an useful technique which could reduce the gap between him and Goku.
- After the Kamehameha, Goku goes back to Kaio-Ken x2

Black Arc:

- Trunks' SSJ2 looks like in the manga
- Trunks tells Goku and the others that Black is much stronger than Gohan was against Cell. Asks them where Gohan is but they tell him he is retired
- Goten studies with Kid Trunks and reaches Future Trunks with him, gets to meet him properly
- Bulma comments Trunks used to have purple hair, Trunks states the color changed over the years
- Trunks asks the kids to show him how powerful they are and is surprised to see both can go SSJ, tells them it actually took him his mentor's Gohan death to snap and achieve SSJ through rage, thinking about it reminds him he should probably pay Gohan a visit. The flashback his still showed but it is taken straight from the TV Special (or at least Trunks' hair is pink in the flashback)
- When Vegeta first fights Black, Black goes SSJ2 before going SSJ Rose
- Trunks tries to attack SSR Black but is knocked back immediately
- When Black fires the Kamehameha, Goku is able to free himself from Zamasu and shields Trunks
- Back in the present Vegeta gives Trunks more training while Goku and Beerus investigate Zamasu
- When Goku rages he actually punches Black several times making him bleed too
- Trunks fires a Burning Attack to Black instead of a Galick Gun in their second fight after Trunks has achieved his new form
- Black fires a ki blast to Trunks when he rescues Zamasu when Trunks it trying to blow himself up, Vegeta arrives and fires a ki blast to save Trunks
- Goku is the first who tries the Mafuba against Zamasu but fails because Black intervenes with his copies, Trunks watches it and he is the one to ask Bulma if she knows how it’s performed and she shows him Piccolo’s tutorial
- Zamasu is successfully sealed so Black puts his potara on the other ear to break the seal. This way the Mafuba was actually useful
- Merged Zamasu comments how it’s a shame 10% of his power wasn’t enough to beat Father-Son Galick Gun
- Goku uses Kaio-Ken x2 when firing the Kamehameha, then uses x10 to kick Merged Zamasu

[Ki Breaker]

- Bulma comments Trunks used to have pink hair, Trunks states the color changed over the years

If that was the case, I am glad it's blue now

[emperior]

- Bulma comments Trunks used to have pink hair, Trunks states the color changed over the years

If that was the case, I am glad it's blue now

I meant purple