Why butcher Zamasu's character...

[Merged Zamasu]

Gowasu and co., those spineless cowards, used the "We must create, not destroy" excuse as a shield.

Except it's not an excuse but a guideline because, when you're not a complete lunatic, you don't go around killing everyone for your ideals lol

Oh well, it's fun to speculate how it would have ended had Zamasu won.

I'd say we had a glimpse in ep67 lol

1) Gowasu and co., using that excuse, allowed monsters like Frost and Frieza to ravage the beauty of the Universe. Also, atleast Zamasu had a logical reason for wanting to destroy the Universe. Zeno will do that just for fun. How is Zeno better than Zamasu, in any way shape or form? Zamasu is actually better than Zeno, because he atleast he cares about the well-being and state of the Universe.

2) What you refer to in Episode 67 was NOT a glimpse of Zamasu's utopian world. As i stated many times before, eliminating all mortals was but the first stage of his plan. After Zamasu had killed all mortals, he would have "washed everything away" and created a "world even more perfect". Zamasu had immense plans to completely re-shape the Universe, and in doing so fix all its flaws.

[kinisking]

Your passion for Zamasu is actually pleasing to me. Nice to see someone love a super character this much.

[Miracles]

Mortal body fused with immortal caused the abnormality in body structure. Zamasu's backstory/character was well developed. We knew where he came from, what his views are, his purposes and plans to execute such purposes. It took combined efforts of power, Vegetto, Spirit Bomb and Zeno to kill him. It was well done.

[Merged Zamasu]

Mortal body fused with immortal caused the abnormality in body structure. Zamasu's backstory/character was well developed. We knew where he came from, what his views are, his purposes and plans to execute such purposes. It took combined efforts of power, Vegetto, Spirit Bomb and Zeno to kill him. It was well done.

Zamasu's character was well-written indeed, as we saw his descent into madness, and his rise as a God. But his backstory was not explored in the slightest. Again, giving us a bunch of irrelevant information like "he is a Shinjin from Kaishin" or "He is a genius and a prodigy even amongst the Gods" is not an explored backstory, it's just a bunch of info to make the character look slightly more interesting. We got Black's backstory, a former Supreme Kai who wished for Goku's body. But we sure didn't get Zamasu himself's backstory. Why was he so obsessed with justice? Why did he hate mortals so much? Did he have a reason to have this hatred, while all other Shinjin are peaceful beings? Did perhaps a friend of his get killed by a mortal, which triggered his hate for them?

That is what expanding a character's backstory means. Not to make up 2/3 informations to make that character look less generic, but to delve deeper and deeper into his past, and try to find the reasons for his actions.

As for your last statement, just because it took Zeno to kill him, doesn't mean it was well-executed. It was extremely rushed, as he went from Supreme God to ugly purple monster in 3 minutes. It could have taken even the embodiement of Toryana himself to defeat him, but if it was executed in just 1 episode, it will still come off as rushed and forced. Imagine if the Cell Games had lasted for 3 episodes? In one episode we have Goku vs Cell, in the other we have Gohan vs Cell and in the other we have Cell's defeat. That's exactly what they did with Merged Zamasu. In one Episode we had Merged Zamasu vs Goku/Vegeta/Trunks, in the other we had Merged Zamasu vs Trunks/Vegito, in the other we had Merged Zamasu's death, which didn't even last for the entire episode but for half of it, because god whatever shall we do if we don't see more of those irrelevant and worthless weaklings like Pilaf and his bunch of freaks. The result was just a rushed, forced and clunky ending.

[Gog]

Mortal body fused with immortal caused the abnormality in body structure. Zamasu's backstory/character was well developed. We knew where he came from, what his views are, his purposes and plans to execute such purposes. It took combined efforts of power, Vegetto, Spirit Bomb and Zeno to kill him. It was well done.

Zamasu's character was well-written indeed, as we saw his descent into madness, and his rise as a God. But his backstory was not explored in the slightest. Again, giving us a bunch of irrelevant information like "he is a Shinjin from Kaishin" or "He is a genius and a prodigy even amongst the Gods" is not an explored backstory, it's just a bunch of info to make the character look slightly more interesting. We got Black's backstory, a former Supreme Kai who wished for Goku's body. But we sure didn't get Zamasu himself's backstory. Why was he so obsessed with justice? Why did he hate mortals so much? Did he have a reason to have this hatred, while all other Shinjin are peaceful beings? Did perhaps a friend of his get killed by a mortal, which triggered his hate for them?

That is what expanding a character's backstory means. Not to make up 2/3 informations to make that character look less generic, but to delve deeper and deeper into his past, and try to find the reasons for his actions.

As for your last statement, just because it took Zeno to kill him, doesn't mean it was well-executed. It was extremely rushed, as he went from Supreme God to ugly purple monster in 3 minutes. It could have taken even the embodiement of Toryana himself to defeat him, but if it was executed in just 1 episode, it will still come off as rushed and forced. Imagine if the Cell Games had lasted for 3 episodes? In one episode we have Goku vs Cell, in the other we have Gohan vs Cell and in the other we have Cell's defeat. That's exactly what they did with Merged Zamasu. In one Episode we had Merged Zamasu vs Goku/Vegeta/Trunks, in the other we had Merged Zamasu vs Trunks/Vegito, in the other we had Merged Zamasu's death, which didn't even last for the entire episode but for half of it. The result was just a rushed, forced and clunky ending.

Your right, but just be glad that Trunks didn't transform into super Saiyan white, and killed the immortal soul of Zamasu in an incrediably drawn out scene that would make Erokolo2 kill akira toriyama

[PsionicWarrior]

Gowasu and co., using that excuse, allowed monsters like Frost and Frieza to ravage the beauty of the Universe.

No, it is not their job to act by themselves, but they can guide people in order to prevent the worst, as Kaio did with Goku against Freeza, as the Supreme Kai did with Gohan against Majin Buu, Zamasu IS right to see this as flawed, but his actions have been way, way too extreme and out of scope to be seen as enlightening IMO lol
He's missing the bigger picture.

2) What you refer to in Episode 67 was NOT a glimpse of Zamasu's utopian world. As i stated many times before, eliminating all mortals was but the first stage of his plan. After Zamasu had killed all mortals, he would have "washed everything away" and created a "world even more perfect". Zamasu had immense plans to completely re-shape the Universe, and in doing so fix all its flaws.

You 100% share Zamasu's ideology and that's fair enough, on a more philosophical level I would argue nothing of beauty can come out of complete havoc, that is a very dangerous delusion with consequences we could even see IRL with world wars and all that lol

Zamasu's character was well-written indeed, as we saw his descent into madness, and his rise as a God.

a FALLEN God lol

********
I very much agree with you saying the character deserved more development through more time-screen with a longer arc though.

[Merged Zamasu]

Gowasu and co., using that excuse, allowed monsters like Frost and Frieza to ravage the beauty of the Universe.

No, it is not their job to act by themselves, but they can guide people in order to prevent the worst, as Kaio did with Goku against Freeza, as the Supreme Kai did with Gohan against Majin Buu, Zamasu IS right to see this as flawed, but his actions have been way, way too extreme and out of scope IMO lol
He's missing the bigger picture.

2) What you refer to in Episode 67 was NOT a glimpse of Zamasu's utopian world. As i stated many times before, eliminating all mortals was but the first stage of his plan. After Zamasu had killed all mortals, he would have "washed everything away" and created a "world even more perfect". Zamasu had immense plans to completely re-shape the Universe, and in doing so fix all its flaws.

You 100% share Zamasu's ideology and that's fair enough, on a more philosophical level I would argue nothing of beauty can come out of complete havoc, that is a very dangerous delusion with consequences we could even see IRL with world wars and all that lol

Zamasu's character was well-written indeed, as we saw his descent into madness, and his rise as a God.

a FALLEN God lol

********
I very much agree with you saying the character deserved more development through more time-screen with a longer arc though.

Zamasu's actions were extreme because he made everyone suffer. Had he simply erased all mortals from existence, without giving them any pain at all, he would have been a much more benevolent God. What makes Zamasu evil are not his ideals. It's how he executed his plan: he wasn't satisfied with erasing all mortals, he wanted them to fear and suffer in agony, this is what makes him a psycopath. Also, Zamasu was a shining and majestic God, especially in Episode 67. A God is someone who looks down, someone who judges all existence, someone whose wisdom trascends time and space. Such incredible heights, only the Supreme God, Zamasu, could reach them. And like a true God, Zamasu died on his own terms, by bringing down everyone along with him. But do not worry, for another will rise one day to take Zamasu's place and avenge him. Zamasu ascended, and became more than just a being: he became an ideal. Zamasu became order and justice, order and justice are ideals, thus Zamasu was no longer an individual, but an ideal. And ideals are not easily forsaken.

Zamasu is the best thing that has happened to Super. You know a character is well-written when you spend pages and pages arguing about his ideals, motivations, intentions, etc...

[PsionicWarrior]

Zamasu's actions were extreme because he made everyone suffer. Had he simply erased all mortals from existence, without giving them any pain at all, he would have been a much more benevolent God.

This is really the part where I don't think we can agree, I mean ffs if you want to spare the universe from Freezas you only need to kill those, not all the other brilliant people like Buruma or any decent human being really lol

You don't build a new world by erasing the old, but by making evolve the old into something better.

[Merged Zamasu]

Zamasu's actions were extreme because he made everyone suffer. Had he simply erased all mortals from existence, without giving them any pain at all, he would have been a much more benevolent God.

This is really the part where I don't think we can agree, I mean ffs if you want to spare the universe from Freezas you only need to kill those, not all the other brilliant people like Buruma or any decent human being lol

You don't build a new world by erasing the old, but by making evolve the old into something better.

Bulma is a sinner! She built the Time Machine, she went against the laws of the Gods and even tried to deceive a God of Destruction. See? Mortals can't be trusted, they will use their god-given wisdom only to backstab the Gods, like that foolish Bulma did. Zeno's Universe is lost, nothing good can come out of it. A Universe where the Gods follow their own agenda instead of the laws of the Universe, and where mortals are free to destroy planets at will without any punishment, is a flawed Universe that can't be saved anymore. The saddest thing is, Zeno can't even realize how ugly his Universe has become. Zeno enjoys destroying entire Universes...what a great Omni-king he is...

[PsionicWarrior]

Bulma is a sinner! She built the Time Machine, she went against the laws of the Gods and even tried to deceive a God of Destruction.

Using that logic Galileo was also a sinner then lol

[Merged Zamasu]

Bulma is a sinner! She built the Time Machine, she went against the laws of the Gods and even tried to deceive a God of Destruction.

Using that logic Galileo was also a sinner then lol

Zeno's Universe's laws are clear: Time travel is a sin, and Time Machines are the proof of that sin. That alone makes Bulma worthy of punishment and a sinner. The fact Beerus didn't destroy her, after she not only defied the laws of the Universe countless times in the past, but also tried to deceive him, shows that Beerus doesn't care about the well-being and laws of the Universe, and just does whatever he wants. He has, essentialy, gone rogue. If you truly serve the Universe, you will do what is right to uphold its justice and laws, regardless of the fact that may be immoral.

Gowasu told Zamasu that is the God of Destruction's duty to erase planets should they defy the laws of the Universe. Problem is, the God of Destruction is a dumbass who doesn't care at all about the laws of the Universe. And that futher proves Zamasu's theory that Zeno's Universe is flawed and its system is clearly not working right.

[PsionicWarrior]

Because obviously we live in the Dragon Ball universe. Zeno's Universe's laws are clear: Time travel is a sin, and Time Machines are the proof of that sin. That alone makes Bulma worthy of punishment and a sinner.

Technically Buruma isn't a sinner even from your point of view because she originally built the time machine in FTrunks timeline where she wasn't aware of such vetos regarding her research lol
As a consequence there would have never been any need for the present one to build one since 17 and 18 could be annihilated lol

The fact Beerus didn't destroy her, after she not only defied the laws of the Universe countless times in the past, but also tried to deceive him, shows that Beerus doesn't care about the well-being and laws of the Universe, and just does whatever he wants.

No, it means Beerus, unlike Zamasu, is not completely delusional and has some common sense and can distinguish the differences lol
Also, he's easily bought off with food, but that's not the Beerus thread

If you truly serve the Universe, you will do what is right to uphold its justice and laws, regardless of the fact that may be immoral.

JAWOHL

[Merged Zamasu]

Why am i wasting time arguing with you?

[PsionicWarrior]

Why am i wasting time arguing with you?

I'm sorry you see this discussion as a waste of time, but you keep on saying everyone else aside Zamasu are sinners or ******** and I have a hard time not wanting to argue your points, as much as I enjoyed his character I could never stand for his position lol

[Doctor.]

You seem to be forgetting the fact that Zamasu is also a sinner since he killed Gowasu and took his place as a Kaioshin when he was merely a lowly Kaio.

[Kanassa]

Had he simply erased all mortals from existence

he would have been a much more benevolent God.

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong...

[HeroR]

I am about 90% certain that Merged Zamasu is a parody of a real account.

[dbs fanboy]

I quite liked Merged Zamasu in #66, hell, his characterisation is basically the main factor of why i liked the episode despite the flaws.
Seeing Zamasu slowly getting mad and crazy was fantastic and it made me feel bad for him, something that i've never felt for any villain before (in this franchise). He wanted justice and peace, but his obssesion ended up corrupting him and making him as violent as the Babarians and what's funny is that he ended up cut in half just like that "filthy mortal". And to add more fuel to the fire, the living contradiction that he embodies, is making him fall apart both phsically and mentally

[Merged Zamasu]

You seem to be forgetting the fact that Zamasu is also a sinner since he killed Gowasu and took his place as a Kaioshin when he was merely a lowly Kaio.

I know, when did i even deny the fact Zamasu was mad? We were discussing about Bulma, and she is, without the slightest bit of doubt, a sinner.

Had he simply erased all mortals from existence

he would have been a much more benevolent God.

One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong...

A benevolent God will not make his subjects suffer, he will just end them without them even realizing what happened, so that they do not suffer nor feel any pain. Many cannot understand Zamasu's theory, because they believe mortals are necessary to the Universe. But look at all the planets destroyed by the foolishness of mortals. At all the sins committed by the mortals, who abuse their power for their own gains. Mortals are a chore, they are outdated and flawed. As Black said, in his immense beauty and intellect, "mortals are unnecessary in the utopian world" and "death is a preferable fate for mortals".

[Kanassa]

A benevolent God will not make his subjects suffer, he will just end them without them even realizing what happened, so that they do not suffer nor feel any pain.

No, a benevolent God would not so flimsily justify genocide of every life in the universe.