The Manga delivered justice to Goku Black Arc

[zamasu121]

At this point, i truly believe that Toyotaro can draw stick stick figures, have the biggest asspulls, and people would still consider his version better.

[HeroR]

vocal minority huh? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb9pwBTCFq0

One section of comments on one YouTube video is not at all a good way to develop a consensus regarding whether the manga fans are a minority. The Dragon Ball community is a lot bigger than that. You're making mountains out of molehills.

I think it's because the more hardcore part of the fandom has been conditioned to think the manga is always better than the anime.

This is the first I've ever heard of this. I mean, Kanzenshuu is as hardcore as it gets, and numerous people here prefer the anime over the manga.

The manga is often praised over the anime here by a certain group of fans. Honestly, this is one of the only places next to parts Reddit and Youtube that praised the manga so much. Most people I know fall out with the manga after Chapter 13 or stopped following it since it's so far behind. It becomes particularly annoying when manga fans claim that the manga will 'save' Super from a plot point they didn't like, only to be surprised and let down when the manga does the exact same thing because the thing they hated came from Toriyama.

At this point, i truly believe that Toyotaro can draw stick stick figures, have the biggest asspulls, and people would still consider his version better.

I honestly want to make a Bingo card every time a chapter is released so I can check off everything the fans hated or complained about in the anime and blamed on Toei showing up in the manga. The most recent ones being Black being overpowered, Goku and Vegeta retreating to the past, the Evil Containment Wave (which was popular until fans thought it was a Toei's idea), Super Saiyan 2 Trunks getting hits on on Super Saiyan Rose Black. Funny thing, a lot of manga fans handwave that last part, while they tore the anime a new one because Super Saiyan 2 Trunks caught Black off-guard and kicked him into a building.

[zamasu121]

At this point, i truly believe that Toyotaro can draw stick stick figures, have the biggest asspulls, and people would still consider his version better.

I honestly want to make a Bingo card every time a chapter is released so I can check off everything the fans hated or complained about in the anime and blamed on Toei showing up in the manga. The most recent ones being Black being overpowered, Goku and Vegeta retreating to the past, the Evil Containment Wave (which was popular until fans thought it was a Toei's idea), Super Saiyan 2 Trunks getting hits on on Super Saiyan Rose Black. Funny thing, a lot of manga fans handwave that last part, while they tore the anime a new one because Super Saiyan 2 Trunks caught Black off-guard and kicked him into a building.

This is by far the thing that bothered me the most. When it happened in the anime, people kept going on about it. Now that the manga shown trunks causing ssjr black to be in pain suddenly nobody mentions this.

[Ki Breaker]

Yes, the manga is much better, it feels like I am watching Dragonball continuity rather than the GAMBARE! version of Dragonball..
The manga is the reason I can truly enjoy new Dragonball material

[HyugaProdigy]

At this point, i truly believe that Toyotaro can draw stick stick figures, have the biggest asspulls, and people would still consider his version better.

Please stop with that nonsense, Toyotaro definitely can replicate Toriyama art-style better than the Toei studio, it was all body structural and proportion in check and his pose is dynamic which really stood out, he put too much effort and detail in each and every manga panels; for some reason you have something against the manga because either you're blind asf or a hater.

[Boo Machine]

At this point, i truly believe that Toyotaro can draw stick stick figures, have the biggest asspulls, and people would still consider his version better.

Please stop with that nonsense, Toyotaro definitely can replicate Toriyama art-style better than the Toei studio, it was all body structural and proportion in check and his pose is dynamic which really stood out, he put too much effort and detail in each and every manga panels; for some reason you have something against the manga because either you're blind asf or a hater.

I think I must be blind. Because, although I like the manga and enjoyed this chapter, I can't understand what the manga is doing that's so much better than the anime aside from a few story changes that are preferable. I want to understand but I just don't see it for the life of me.

[HeroR]

This is by far the thing that bothered me the most. When it happened in the anime, people kept going on about it. Now that the manga shown trunks causing ssjr black to be in pain suddenly nobody mentions this.

I think another thing is that I remember manga fans praising it for was making Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan look like a powerful transformation because Hit couldn't stand up to it (despite being nerf compared to the anime) and Vegeta trashed Super Saiyan 1/2 Black with it, while the anime makes Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan look weak and pitiful because it always loses. Then comes this chapter and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta gets wrecked by Super Saiyan 1/2 Black after he got a near-death boost and Black has Rose. Which makes you wonder even more about how Trunks got shots in.

I think I must be blind. Because, although I like the manga and enjoyed this chapter, I can't understand what the manga is doing that's so much better than the anime aside from a few story changes that are preferable. I want to understand but I just don't see it for the life of me.

It is mostly preference. A lot of manga fans prefer the art style of the manga over the anime. Which is fine, but I think some really overdo it and treat the manga's art as a masterpiece when I find other artists who do a better job copying Toriyama's style. Storytelling, is also preference and some bias since a lot of the manga's flaws are either ignored or hand waved, while any flaws the anime has is never forgiven.

Mind you, this isn't everyone, but the majority I have seen.

[HyugaProdigy]

quote="HeroR"]I honestly want to make a Bingo card every time a chapter is released so I can check off everything the fans hated or complained about in the anime and blamed on Toei showing up in the manga. The most recent ones being Black being overpowered, Goku and Vegeta retreating to the past, the Evil Containment Wave (which was popular until fans thought it was a Toei's idea), Super Saiyan 2 Trunks getting hits on on Super Saiyan Rose Black. Funny thing, a lot of manga fans handwave that last part, while they tore the anime a new one because Super Saiyan 2 Trunks caught Black off-guard and kicked him into a building.

This is by far the thing that bothered me the most. When it happened in the anime, people kept going on about it. Now that the manga shown trunks causing ssjr black to be in pain suddenly nobody mentions this.

Funny enough everyone here in Kanzenshuu loves to bash on the manga okay and you guys are making stupid assertion about people preference as to "why the manga is worse" rather than addressing the topic ; Goku Black got knocked out because he was being too careless in aiming to destroy the timemachine but Future trunk knocked him out before he destroyed it; Goku black recieved the blow; he didn't suffer him or anything when it only scratched instead he tanked that shit and now Trunk is on the verge of losing. Seriously you guys just love to pick something that entails differently over escalate things to twist people logic.

[HyugaProdigy]

At this point, i truly believe that Toyotaro can draw stick stick figures, have the biggest asspulls, and people would still consider his version better.

Please stop with that nonsense, Toyotaro definitely can replicate Toriyama art-style better than the Toei studio, it was all body structural and proportion in check and his pose is dynamic which really stood out, he put too much effort and detail in each and every manga panels; for some reason you have something against the manga because either you're blind asf or a hater.

I think I must be blind. Because, although I like the manga and enjoyed this chapter, I can't understand what the manga is doing that's so much better than the anime aside from a few story changes that are preferable. I want to understand but I just don't see it for the life of me.

I am talking about the art which is the fair comparison, you probably like the anime more because it brought things to life and the animation and OST soundtrack which is the only thing the anime had the advantage over the manga. Which makes sense.

[zamasu121]

This is by far the thing that bothered me the most. When it happened in the anime, people kept going on about it. Now that the manga shown trunks causing ssjr black to be in pain suddenly nobody mentions this.

I think another thing is that I remember manga fans praising it for was making Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan look like a powerful transformation because Hit couldn't stand up to it (despite being nerf compared to the anime) and Vegeta trashed Super Saiyan 1/2 Black with it, while the anime makes Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan look weak and pitiful because it always loses. Then comes this chapter and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta gets wrecked by Super Saiyan 1/2 Black after he got a near-death boost and Black has Rose. Which makes you wonder even more about how Trunks got shots in.

Lets not forget goku going from ssb to ssj, even though its cuts down their stamina by 90% and black is right next to him. How can people praise garbage writing like this?

This is how ssj2 trunks attacking ssjr black should look like:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Lsna09gkY

[Boo Machine]

It is mostly preference. A lot of manga fans prefer the art style of the manga over the anime. Which is fine, but I think some really overdo it and treat the manga's art as a masterpiece when I find other artists who do a better job copying Toriyama's style. Storytelling, is also preference and some bias since a lot of the manga's flaws are either ignored or hand waved, while any flaws the anime has is never forgiven.

Mind you, this isn't everyone, but the majority I have seen.

I totally get that preference would make people like the manga over the anime. But what baffles me is that some talk it up like it's worlds above the anime. I have a hard time believing that, if DBS was just this manga as is and there was no anime version to compare, that it would be nearly as praised. And I say this only because most praise I see the manga get is backed up by trashing the anime. I don't know if that's out of line for me to say, but that what I see here. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

Even if I were to accept that the manga is better, I feel It wouldn't be by that much.

I am talking about the art which is the fair comparison, you probably like the anime more because it brought things to life and the animation and OST soundtrack which is the only thing the anime had the advantage over the manga. Which makes sense.

Art is a fair comparison and the animation and soundtrack helps. But I like the anime better simply because it feels like a more fuller story with more substance. I feel like that's missing in the manga. The manga has some nice art and some neat story changes but it doesn't do much for me.

[HyugaProdigy]

This is by far the thing that bothered me the most. When it happened in the anime, people kept going on about it. Now that the manga shown trunks causing ssjr black to be in pain suddenly nobody mentions this.

I think another thing is that I remember manga fans praising it for was making Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan look like a powerful transformation because Hit couldn't stand up to it (despite being nerf compared to the anime) and Vegeta trashed Super Saiyan 1/2 Black with it, while the anime makes Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan look weak and pitiful because it always loses. Then comes this chapter and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta gets wrecked by Super Saiyan 1/2 Black after he got a near-death boost and Black has Rose. Which makes you wonder even more about how Trunks got shots in.

Lets not forget goku going from ssb to ssj, even though its cuts down their stamina by 90% and black is right next to him. How can people praise garbage writing like this?

This is how ssj2 trunks attacking ssjr black should look like:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Lsna09gkY

Care to explain to me how is it BS when in the anime SSB Vegeta said his punches had no effect on a base Goku Black when they first fought
and Base Black hurt Vegeta with a kick and could've killed him when he had his fingers to Vegeta's neck

SSJ2 Black beating Vegeta is better than Vegeta not being able to hurt base Black in the anime

Like I said trunk got a shot because Black was distracted when he try to stop both Goku and Vegeta escaping and then trunks gets wrecked. Where does it state that it "cuts 90%" stamina??? Hmmm; and yet in both manga/anime showed that Vegeta had to mostly go all out on ssj against magetta and cabba and then use ssjb Twice; makes you wonder how vegeta didn't depleted all of his kis within all these matches.

[HyugaProdigy]

I am talking about the art which is the fair comparison, you probably like the anime more because it brought things to life and the animation and OST soundtrack which is the only thing the anime had the advantage over the manga. Which makes sense.

Art is a fair comparison and the animation and soundtrack helps. But I like the anime better simply because it feels like a more fuller story with more substance. I feel like that's missing in the manga. The manga has some nice art and some neat story changes but it doesn't do much for me.

Filler story? In what ways because the Anime clearly missed out a lot of opportunity ; they wasted too much time on the filler padding such as the pilaf gang and too much parody shit which is unnecessary; they could've spend more time on Trunk training and buidling him up stronger rather than just pulling shit out of thin blue and more backstory about Zamasu and his origin as well as to delve deeper about Future trunk past when he was training with the Z-sword and fought dabura just like how the Manga did.
Now don't get me wrong, the manga did glossed over the whole mystery goku black and the driving force of zamasu to go evil but really that's like the only minor problems with this manga unless Goku Black is someone different in which Toyotaru implies. The manga clearly filled up most of loose holes.

[iAnimationLover_]

Thats a lot of broken links man.

Use imgur pls xD

[Boo Machine]

Filler story? In what ways because the Anime clearly missed out a lot of opportunity ; they wasted too much time on the filler padding such as the pilaf gang and too much parody shit which is unnecessary; they could've spend more time on Trunk training and buidling him up stronger rather than just pulling shit out of thin blue and more backstory about Zamasu and his origin as well as to delve deeper about Future trunk past when he was training with the Z-sword and fought dabura just like how the Manga did.
Now don't get me wrong, the manga did glossed over the whole mystery goku black and the driving force of zamasu to go evil but really that's like the only minor problems with this manga unless Goku Black is someone different in which Toyotaru implies. The manga clearly filled up most of loose holes.

I never said it was an air tight story. I just said it felt more full and had more substance in comparison to the manga.

I don't think anyone can deny that the anime lingered a little bit in the padding. In agreement that time could have been spent better. Trunks training being one of those moments to spend time on, you're right. But that goes for both mediums. But the anime at least had an episode where we saw the training. It had a moment, albeit small. The manga had a panel. The manga did but them in the gravity room, which is smarter, but it was such a foot note that I barely cared. It probably won't matter if trunks doesn't end up any stronger, but that would be boring. Makes more sense. But boring. Since it would just make Trunks the punching bag that didn't do much except run for help.

I don't see glossing over Black and Zamasus deal as a minor problem. These two are the main attraction of the arc (to me at least) so glossing over their whole deal is kind of a detraction for me. The manga "Fills up holes" the anime may have not but it still has plenty of them and holes it did fill are fairly small ones. Some holes it shares with it's anime counterpart.

Though I suppose whatever comes next could change my mind. The arc in the manga isn't over yet after all and this recent chapter was good. So lets see if the manga fixes my complaints.

[zamasu121]

I think another thing is that I remember manga fans praising it for was making Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan look like a powerful transformation because Hit couldn't stand up to it (despite being nerf compared to the anime) and Vegeta trashed Super Saiyan 1/2 Black with it, while the anime makes Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan look weak and pitiful because it always loses. Then comes this chapter and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta gets wrecked by Super Saiyan 1/2 Black after he got a near-death boost and Black has Rose. Which makes you wonder even more about how Trunks got shots in.

Lets not forget goku going from ssb to ssj, even though its cuts down their stamina by 90% and black is right next to him. How can people praise garbage writing like this?

This is how ssj2 trunks attacking ssjr black should look like:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Lsna09gkY

Care to explain to me how is it BS when in the anime SSB Vegeta said his punches had no effect on a base Goku Black when they first fought
and Base Black hurt Vegeta with a kick and could've killed him when he had his fingers to Vegeta's neck

SSJ2 Black beating Vegeta is better than Vegeta not being able to hurt base Black in the anime

Like I said trunk got a shot because Black was distracted when he try to stop both Goku and Vegeta escaping and then trunks gets wrecked. Where does it state that it "cuts 90%" stamina??? Hmmm; and yet in both manga/anime showed that Vegeta had to mostly go all out on ssj against magetta and cabba and then use ssjb Twice; makes you wonder how vegeta didn't depleted all of his kis within all these matches.

It is in chapter 13 when whis was talking to beerus. this is some horrible writing by Toyotaro.

[HeroR]

Care to explain to me how is it BS when in the anime SSB Vegeta said his punches had no effect on a base Goku Black when they first fought
and Base Black hurt Vegeta with a kick and could've killed him when he had his fingers to Vegeta's neck

SSJ2 Black beating Vegeta is better than Vegeta not being able to hurt base Black in the anime

Like I said trunk got a shot because Black was distracted when he try to stop both Goku and Vegeta escaping and then trunks gets wrecked. Where does it state that it "cuts 90%" stamina??? Hmmm; and yet in both manga/anime showed that Vegeta had to mostly go all out on ssj against magetta and cabba and then use ssjb Twice; makes you wonder how vegeta didn't depleted all of his kis within all these matches.

Vegeta never said that his attacks had no effect on base Black in the anime. He said something was wrong after Black took no noticeably damaged. Black also could have killed Vegeta because Vegeta wasn't expecting him to suddenly be so strong. Black was at best only as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku according to Trunks. The same reason you give for Trunks getting shots in on Super Saiyan Rose Black when Goku and Vegeta escaped.

Keep in mind, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta caught a punched by Super Saiyan Rose Black and got hits in. Meaning, that Vegeta wasn't going all out against base form Black. In the manga, Vegeta got stomped, hard, but Super Saiyan 1/2 Black. He performed worst than anime Vegeta who at least got taken out by an off-guard energy sword.

Chapter 13, it's stated that Vegeta lost 90% of his power because he transformed twice in a row to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. You can look at the Viz translation.

[HyugaProdigy]

Vegeta never said that his attacks had no effect on base Black in the anime. He said something was wrong after Black took no noticeably damaged. Black also could have killed Vegeta because Vegeta wasn't expecting him to suddenly be so strong. Black was at best only as strong as Super Saiyan 3 Goku according to Trunks. The same reason you give for Trunks getting shots in on Super Saiyan Rose Black when Goku and Vegeta escaped.

Keep in mind, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta caught a punched by Super Saiyan Rose Black and got hits in. Meaning, that Vegeta wasn't going all out against base form Black. In the manga, Vegeta got stomped, hard, but Super Saiyan 1/2 Black. He performed worst than anime Vegeta who at least got taken out by an off-guard energy sword.

Just like you said how Vegeta wasn't expected at first when black went instantly on him but when vegeta pummeled him to the ground; Base Goku black got up like nothing just wiping out the dust as if insulting vegeta and somehow instantly kicked him in the guts; the manga did the same; Vegeta was able to counter attack on SSJR Black while inflicting blow on him and going toe to toe and at times vegeta did successfully blocked his attack; Vegeta went off guard because he wasn't expecting him to be this strong just like you said except the difference in the anime is the power scale; Black ended the fight quickly with the sonic blade after when vegeta attacked him multiple attack which had no effect on SSJR and went off guard when Black played him like a fool.
There is a reason why Black gets a HUGE Zenkia Boost and overcome ssjb Vegeta because he is a former kioshin with knowledge and skills about the gods lingering with the Saiyan blood; and gets massively stronger using Trunks as a punching bag over time so when Goku Black recieved heavy blow on ssjb; he recieved far more powerups when he had greater potential to grow whereas vegeta he's at his limit in his prime[/quote]

[HyugaProdigy]

Lets not forget goku going from ssb to ssj, even though its cuts down their stamina by 90% and black is right next to him. How can people praise garbage writing like this?

This is how ssj2 trunks attacking ssjr black should look like:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Lsna09gkY

Care to explain to me how is it BS when in the anime SSB Vegeta said his punches had no effect on a base Goku Black when they first fought
and Base Black hurt Vegeta with a kick and could've killed him when he had his fingers to Vegeta's neck

SSJ2 Black beating Vegeta is better than Vegeta not being able to hurt base Black in the anime

Like I said trunk got a shot because Black was distracted when he try to stop both Goku and Vegeta escaping and then trunks gets wrecked. Where does it state that it "cuts 90%" stamina??? Hmmm; and yet in both manga/anime showed that Vegeta had to mostly go all out on ssj against magetta and cabba and then use ssjb Twice; makes you wonder how vegeta didn't depleted all of his kis within all these matches.

It is in chapter 13 when whis was talking to beerus. this is some horrible writing by Toyotaro.

I will fact check tomorow and see where it goes but right now I am going to bed.

[Zephyr]

Objectively speaking, the manga has:
>art more closely resembling the original series
>no Sumitomo score
>no animation problems
>no voice actors having to be replaced due to health issues or worse
>evidently much more close involvement from Toriyama

You can argue about subjective shit like "asspulls" all you want (both versions have them, it's sort of moot), but the anime has an overabundance of now insurmountable problems that simply don't plague the manga.

It's funny though, because the manga is supposed to merely be a promotional thing for the more fundamentally flawed "main attraction". It reminds me of the current state of Sonic the Hedgehog: Mania's basically a side game, compared to Project 2017, not even developed by Sonic Team themselves. And yet, it has fucking continents more quality assurance backing it. 2017, meanwhile, has produced nothing but red flags (in what very little has actually been said about it).