Dragonball franchise is getting too complicated for its own good

[Kunzait_83]

I actually don't know if that's softer at all.

I mean... that's all I was effectively saying. But according to Doctor and ABED and whatnot, apparently I'm saying that because I want to secretly impose my own snobbery over people. Because that sure sounds like a healthy, constructive use of my time here, clearly.

This whole discussion got NEEDLESSLY out of hand for no good reason, largely because people here wildly overreacted to... honestly I don't even know WHAT the offending words that set them off were. I'm so beyond lost at this point. I feel like myself and/or Zeph accidentally or unwittingly hit some VERY delicate nerve that we didn't even know was there to begin with.

Don't be so paranoid and hyper sensitive. Relax, chill, and if someone makes a stupid, harmless little joke at your expense, have the good grace to just laugh it off and move the hell on. Or if there was something in it that REALLY did bother you, don't immediately assume bad intent. Take it to PMs.

[ABED]

During the manga's original run, Toriyama was writing each chapter, week-by-week, with very little planning. The story grew organically off of the seat of his pants, and even he had sparse idea of where it was going. As a result, he would frequently write himself into these corners that he would have to spring himself from. I think that's part of what made Dragon Ball's story so unpredictable and entertaining.

But as was often the case, he could get out of the corners by sacrificing character and story. To write yourself out of a corner usually takes time to think through the options so not only is the solution unpredictable, but logical. In many cases, it wasn't predictable but not in a good way.

I mean... that's all I was effectively saying. But according to Doctor and ABED and whatnot, apparently I'm saying that because I want to secretly impose my own snobbery over people. Because that sure sounds like a healthy, constructive use of my time here, clearly.

Assuming that people that do that are out to spend their time in healthy and constructive ways.

Don't be so paranoid and hyper sensitive. Relax, chill, and if someone makes a stupid, harmless little joke at your expense, have the good grace to just laugh it off and move the hell on. Or if there was something in it that REALLY did bother you, don't immediately assume bad intent. Take it to PMs.

But it wasn't funny. I can laugh at funny things. I don't automatically assume bad intent, but if I read enough that reads as something negative, then I would reasonably assume negativity.

[Doctor.]

I did not, at any point, seem offended by your comments (I assume you're targetting your post most more towards ABED, but since you also named me, I'm going to reply anyway). I merely responded to your points and expressed my confusion as to why you think the way you do. Slightly vulgar language and a crude way of approaching the topic isn't going to leave me offended. It's going to leave me wanting you to elaborate, because you clearly have a point you want to get across, a point full of hyperbole that you're trying to disguise as a joke, but a point nonetheless.

[Doctor.]

Christ, writing on mobile is a complete nuisance. I apologize for the double-post, but it's necessary in order to edit my completely terribly written post.

[Bansho64]

Um, wow. Things seem to have gotten pretty heated these past few pages.

To answer the topic question, nah, I don't think it has. A lot of it seems pretty simple compared to some of the other intricate messes I've seen in terms of continuities.

[ABED]

Um, wow. Things seem to have gotten pretty heated these past few pages.

To answer the topic question, nah, I don't think it has. A lot of it seems pretty simple compared to some of the other intricate messes I've seen in terms of continuities.

Case in point, the X-Men movie continuity is terrible, but as long as the films are enjoyable, I can get past it.

[funrush]

I mean, it's still pretty easy to get people into the really good bits. Read the manga, or watch Dragon Ball followed by Dragon Ball Kai.

It's when you weigh in Super, GT, and the movies that it gets complicated. After Kai, watch Battle of Gods, Resurrection F, Super from episode 28 on, and then GT for fun? Watch the Broly movies since that character's permeated through pop culture and is apparently in Super now? Watch Fusion Reborn to know who Gogeta is? Hunt down Yo! Son Goku and Friends for Tarble? Bardock movies? Cooler?

But if they care enough to watch the hundred hours of content to even get to asking those questions, it's not hard to point them in the right direction.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball threads are getting too complicated for their own good.

[Kunzait_83]

Assuming that people that do that are out to spend their time in healthy and constructive ways.

I won't bore anyone with any of the details whatsoever, but without going into unnecessary detail, I have like actual serious real life problems to be concerned with. If anyone here had even an iota of a sense of what my day to day has been like for years now, it'd be pretty difficult to come away with the impression that I have time and mental energy enough to pop onto tight-knit online communities solely to fuck with them for the sport of it.

And even if I didn't have any real life problems to deal with, I STILL wouldn't just randomly fuck with people in any serious way, because by my very core nature I'm not a troll.

But it wasn't funny. I can laugh at funny things. I don't automatically assume bad intent, but if I read enough that reads as something negative, then I would reasonably assume negativity.

So we have very different senses of humor apparently. I thought it was funny, but then I'm also the kind of guy who laughs at jokes about serial killers, dead babies, and so on. I've got a sick, dark, twisted, morbid sense of humor. Based on what I know of this crowd over the years however, I'm probably all alone on that island here.

I did not, at any point, seem offended by your comments (I assume you're targetting your post most more towards ABED, but since you also named me, I'm going to reply anyway). I merely responded to your points and expressed my confusion as to why you think the way you do. Slightly vulgar language and a crude way of approaching the topic isn't going to leave me offended. It's going to leave me wanting you to elaborate, because you clearly have a point you want to get across, a point full of hyperbole that you're trying to disguise as a joke, but a point nonetheless.

I'm not trying to "disguise" jack shit. I'm generally a pretty blunt, direct person (in case you couldn't tell). I don't do sneaky, subtle, or passive aggressive. If I've got a problem with someone, they'll generally be the first to know in the most non-uncertain terms possible.

The "joke" in question that ABED and I are referring to is the whole "check into a rehab clinic" post however many pages back that got ABED's panties in a knot. Was it a jab aimed at people who can't seem to get enough DB content? Yes of course it was. Obviously, as I've made my thoughts on that notion plenty clear over the last however many months. But it was indeed as a FRIENDLY jab, intended with no hint of mean spiritedness or malice, as I in NO way take ANY of this shit in this community anywhere near THAT seriously. I genuinely thought that some people would get a chuckle or two out of it and find the way it was set up/worded to be at least kinda clever-ish. Again, with the punchline being about "checking into a rehab clinic" yes I'm unapologetic about the fact that I use off color humor (that isn't even all THAT off color by most internet standards). But again, I didn't think it would lead to anything that APPROACHES this level of absurd monocle-popping.

The fact that I've had to explain myself to this ridiculous of a degree at this point is kind of a sad indictment about how STUPIDLY over serious some people here take these discussions and topics and possibly even themselves. Relax. You'll live longer. No one's trying to secretly troll you and make you feel bad over a dumb children's cartoon or insidiously "disguise" their intentions inside of a joke that offended you. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and the foul mouthed chucklefuck making rehab jokes is really just a foul mouthed chucklefuck making rehab jokes cause he finds it amusing.

Whether you think you aren't writing that way is pretty irrelevant. People's perceptions of you matter. You keep insisting that it's clear and obvious, but that's not the case. I've seen several instances where people have been rubbed the wrong way by the tone of your posts.

Here's the thing: I mostly remember much of those instances coming mainly from you. Maybe a couple other random people once in a very great while here or there, but at least SOME degree of friction like that is normal and tends to happen from time to time on any given forum. But in your particular case its much more consistent, and in many more cases than is usual it seems that you are the one who very often keeps getting into these weird "tiffs" with me. I (much to even my own surprise at times) tend to get along just fine with the vast majority of the people I directly interact with on this site. I've made numerous real life friends on here actually.

You however seem hell bent on assuming bad faith and reading into my posts all sorts of completely ludicrous notions. For instance;

I simply felt you were talking down to people because they haven't had the experiences you've had. For example, because they don't have the background of having read or watched wuxia.

What...? Where...? Why...? Come again?

But yeah here it is. Here is the source of where all these needless drama stemmed from. I posted a bunch of normal shit about whatever, including one MILDLY off-color joke, and you basically interpreted it as this completely made up "attack" which NO normal, sane individual would take it as. Essentially I was just engaging in discussion here no different from how I normally do, and something in your mind twisted it and set you off into "You trying to say you're better than me? That what you're trying to say? You ain't no better than me! You're no better than me!" hyper defense mode.

Every word of this "Talking down to people for not having your experiences" nonsense that you just wrote about how you interpreted the nature of my posts isn't just wrong, its pulled completely from thin fucking air. This is straight up textbook "putting words into my mouth". Which is my BIGGEST all time personal pet peeve that sets me off.

You being in SUCH a defensive mental posture by default in this kind of (fairly light) discussion... this is not how normal people think and interpret the intentions of others from out the gate. I simply write my opinion often on whatever aspect of a given topic, and tend to keep things very broad and generalized, because I have less than zero interest in starting some internet "beef" with anyone over something as stupid as that which might come from a discussion about Dragon Ball.

Most normal people read it and might agree or disagree with the view, and move on. You're the one though who keeps trying to "personalize" things, who keeps insisting on "re-interpreting" and "translating" and looking for the "hidden meaning" behind my words. I'll be blunt: its like you're going out of your way to pick some kind of an online fight with me.

I'm asking you right now, in the nicest, most courteous possible way that I can: stop it. Please. If something about what I say in a given thread, whether its the "tone" or specific working of my post, rubs you the wrong way, here's an idea: instead of looking to "translate" what it is I'm saying about the topic as being not about the topic but about some nefarious insult I'm aiming at you or whomever else on here, maybe try to realize that when you find yourself nitpicking THAT deeply at somebody else's post, maybe the problem instead is with you.

Plus, and I'm sorry to disappoint you here, but I'm only going to continue right on swearing and using harsh language and unpleasant sounding words. Fuckshitcuntcockcumasspussydonaldtrump. Its not going away from my posts, ever, so if that's a large part of my posts that bothers or upsets you, I highly advise you to just stop reading what I have to say and move along elsewhere.

Never will I EVER go out of my way to troll or insult directly anyone on this or any other forum. Its not my way. I'll insult PRODUCTS (like Super or Kai or the FUNimation dub) which are not people and should "offend" neither you nor absolutely anyone else. I'll at times maybe dig at certain TYPES of fans in a VERY broad context (NEVER at anyone personally), but ALL of us here have our issues and pet peeves within a massive fan community like this one. But I assure that with me its NEVER personal. I have NO wish to hurt someones feelings directly. If their feelings get hurt ANYWAY because I insulted something that they like, well then I'm sure as hell not going to apologize for that and their getting offended is entirely on them. This should all be bog-standard, totally uncontroversial outlooks to have on this stuff.

I'm now and always have been utterly uncompromising, and blunt as all hell in my views and how I express them. Not just online, but also in my real life. What you see here is what you get with me in ANY other circumstance. I don't do the "online vs IRL persona". There is no Kunzait_83 "persona". This is very much genuinely me and how I talk offline. So either get used to it or get lost.

Do you not notice ABED, that I've almost NEVER confronted YOU first over anything? In all of these sporadic little "dust ups" that we've had over the last year, it always seems to be YOU who comes after ME because YOU don't seem to know how to understand or compute the words of a guy (myself) who's, without hopefully sounding like I'm kissing my own ass here, tends to be exceedingly articulate, grossly detailed, and straightforwardly up front and honest in my views and how I present them? Have you not ever stopped to consider that in this case, maybe the problem lies with YOU instead and your reading comprehension skills?

I don't know how much more plain I can POSSIBLY make my intentions at this point. Please, I don't wish to find myself having to do this with you ever again. Please just stop. Stop taking so obscenely personally everything you read from me that you feel the least bit uncomfortable with or whatever else have you. Its beyond tiresome and exhausting, and I refuse to do some kind of paranoid "will this offend ABED or anyone else?" tapdance with every post I ever make here from now on.

Get used to the cursing. Get used to the blunt "take no prisoners" appraisals of corporate products that I think are asinine or generalized fandom thoughts and behaviors that I think are silly and stupid. Neither is going the fuck away so long as I'm a poster here, cause this is just how I talk about things. If you insist on projecting these little "well this is what I think he REALLY meant" conspiracy theory-like interpretations onto my posts, please then do me a HUGE favor and keep it to yourself and just walk the fuck away from it. Because I guarantee you that whatever nonsense you cooked up in your head there is probably bullshit.

[DBZAOTA482]

Dragon Ball today is less complicated than the dub history of the original anime series alone.

[Doctor.]

]

I'm not trying to "disguise" jack shit. I'm generally a pretty blunt, direct person (in case you couldn't tell). I don't do sneaky, subtle, or passive aggressive. If I've got a problem with someone, they'll generally be the first to know in the most non-uncertain terms possible.

The "joke" in question that ABED and I are referring to is the whole "check into a rehab clinic" post however many pages back that got ABED's panties in a knot. Was it a jab aimed at people who can't seem to get enough DB content? Yes of course it was. Obviously, as I've made my thoughts on that notion plenty clear over the last however many months. But it was indeed as a FRIENDLY jab, intended with no hint of mean spiritedness or malice, as I in NO way take ANY of this shit in this community anywhere near THAT seriously. I genuinely thought that some people would get a chuckle or two out of it and find the way it was set up/worded to be at least kinda clever-ish. Again, with the punchline being about "checking into a rehab clinic" yes I'm unapologetic about the fact that I use off color humor (that isn't even all THAT off color by most internet standards). But again, I didn't think it would lead to anything that APPROACHES this level of absurd monocle-popping.

The fact that I've had to explain myself to this ridiculous of a degree at this point is kind of a sad indictment about how STUPIDLY over serious some people here take these discussions and topics and possibly even themselves. Relax. You'll live longer. No one's trying to secretly troll you and make you feel bad over a dumb children's cartoon or insidiously "disguise" their intentions inside of a joke that offended you. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and the foul mouthed chucklefuck making rehab jokes is really just a foul mouthed chucklefuck making rehab jokes cause he finds it amusing.

It seems you took a bit of an offense at the term "disguise". I wasn't saying that you were being a passive agressive cunt, I'm aware that if you want to be a cunt, you'll be a cunt to someone's face. I may be off the mark, but at least that's the kind of person you portray yourself as. I wasn't offended by the joke, I got that it was a joke, but that still doesn't negate the fact that you had a point you wanted to get across. That point more-or-less being "Man, these people need to get out more". It didn't sting with me, so I didn't care, I just asked you why you thought the way you did, to which you took it as me (I would say "and ABED" but I can't speak for him) being personally offended.

I don't know what you think of me (as I'm fairly certain this is the first time we've interacted and I doubt my other posts are memorable enough to stick in someone's head), but I do like your posts, Kunzait, contrary to what my posts in this thread may lead you to believe. They're a breath of fresh air from the nauseatingly politically correct and polite way of Kanzenshuu that, although necessary in order to keep a civil discussion (as most debates outside of this forum just devolve into ad hominem), doesn't jive with me as a person. I can't help but express my opinion in an eccentric manner and limiting my vocabulary seems a bit like censorship. Not that I mind it, it's Mike's forum, Mike's rules. Anyway, the point being that you can say whatever you want and I won't be personally offended, it's more likely that I'll like your post rather than get enraged by it, so I don't understand how you could have misunderstood my posts so much to the point where you think I was being uptight. I wasn't, I was asking questions.

[precita]

Never would I have imagined when I made this thread that it would blow up like this. I guess Dragonball really is serious business.

[ABED]

Just so it's clear, I got that it was a joke. That wasn't the issue. It's the tone that I took exception to, but not out of offense.

Sorry for the diversion, let's get back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[rereboy]

Complicated in the sense that the franchise is caring less ans less about consistency and, consequently, things make less and less sense? Yes. Other than that, not really.

[Ajay]

Account strikes have been issued.

This is not how conversations are supposed to take place on this forum. Please refamiliarise yourselves with the forum rules.

There's a good topic, here. Let's get back to it!

Thank you.

[Deathbringer]

Even when I was just starting out as a new fan a few years ago and knew barely anything about the series and fandom I still had one mission on my mind: "watch Dragon Ball and then watch Dragon Ball Z". That was all I had planned to do because even then I knew that that was the "main" part of the series (I mean before then if you had asked me what the series was I would have said "Dragon Ball Z" and assumed it was just an action fighting 'hardcore action dudes' show because that's simply the public perception of the series, even to a lot of seasoned anime fans today)

But anyway regardless of that I still think this franchise isn't that complicated, yeah it's more complicated than most manga series because they're all usually just one manga series all neatly collected into a numbered set of volumes and sadly Dragon Ball turned into the cash cow we see today but you can still go and buy the manga and read it while knowing that it's the heart of the series and everything else is extra stuff for fans of the original story, which is actually how most expanded universes come about, like how we all know that Star Wars was just a movie, then it was a trilogy, then it was 2 trilogies, now it's going to be 3 but that's still the heart of the series and all the expanded universe material surrounding it is built around those movies.

[ABED]

I have a hard time judging how complicated it is. Being a not so casual fan, I know many of the ins and outs of the franchise, but someone watching from the outside would probably find it very confusing.

[Boo Machine]

The way I look at it is, there is the original run. (Dragonball and Dragonaball Z if you want to go by how the anime splits it.) And everything else is extra to be enjoyed or ignored. So I don't view the series as especially complex even if you choose to keep up with any other parts of the franchise (GT or Super) or any of the games continuity (Heroes or Xenoverse.) I think it helps to keep them separate since most of these parts don't really fit all that well together.

But you could just be into the original run and be perfectly fine without even acknowledging anything else that came after.

[emi_b7]

Is it really complicated?
Step 1: read Dragon Ball or watch DB and DBZ
Step 2: if you want more, you can watch either(or both) of the sequels (Super or GT)
Step 3: movies
Who cares about the videogame stories?
There's one linear story, 2 sequels and a bunch of standalone stories. You start with Goku meeting Bulma and end with Uub, after that long ride, you decide if you want to go with the secondary material. Decisions like "should I watch DBZ or Kai?" are not hard and getting information about them and their differences is easy.
It's not that hard, anyone watching can then make their own conclusions about if the movies fit with the series, if Super and GT can coexist, etc.
You say that it gets complicated with recent manga/anime/movie versions of the same stories but, by the time someone reaches that part of the series, they are already invested in it, having watched/read a fuckton of material. They will either look around for 2' to see what comes next and decide or they will watch BOG/ROF and when they watch Super they will realize it's the same story and either skip it or watch that version. Problem solved. Like, really, i don't see how it's complicated. It's not like the franchise has had reboots or alternate universes.

[VegettoEX]

But that's still approaching it from an "I already understand how this all works" viewpoint.

If someone is COMPLETELY new to the franchise, there's good reason to believe they're going to look for something like the latest product to jump in with, while perhaps simultaneously also jumping back to the "beginning". In America, for Dragon Ball, that's the film Resurrection 'F'. Which has since been overwritten in Dragon Ball Super. Which has only just started a broadcast here. Which itself is starting with an overwrite of a previous film.

That's bonkers.