Queerness in DB

[ABED]

They absolutely are. If they get money from the government, they shouldn't be basing who gets the fee on what the speaker's views are. The entire university should be a free speech zone.

A university doesn't have to fly David Duke out, pay him for a speech, and advertise his event. That's nuts. I amended my post above, but there's nothing stopping anyone from showing up and making a speech to students at a public university if they forgo the checks, bells and whistles.

No, but they shouldn't be basing it on what the views are. Do you not see the danger of a publicly funded institution judging what the students should be listening to? Obviously they only have so much money to spend so they have to be selective, but there are other, better, and far less worrisome reasons to choose which speakers get booked. We don't need free speech for popular views. We need it for views that are unpopular.

[Cipher]

No, but they shouldn't be basing it on what the views are. Do you not see the danger of a publicly funded institution judging what the students should be listening to? Obviously they only have so much money to spend so they have to be selective, but there are other, better, and far less worrisome reasons to choose which speakers get booked. We don't need free speech for popular views. We need it for views that are unpopular.

I get it enough to admit that using public reaction to speakers is a slippery slope, and there are opponents to their ideas that will still argue for giving them platforms, in order to expose and explore their views. At the same time, the idea that universities should even be for everyone (all sexes, all races) is new enough that I can't blame them for not wanting to tie themselves to hate speech, and I think one of the most important steps in social progress is to be able to say, in no uncertain terms, "This is not okay. It's not just another political viewpoint. We don't pretend it's okay to treat other humans this way." Without those shifts, those kinds of declarations through public decisions, we'd still be in an era of, "I don't know. Those KKK guys really do have some points worth considering. And maybe female suffrage really is double-sided." Since groups affected by that rhetoric historically haven't been, and still aren't, an equal part of decision-making processes, that can be extremely dangerous. Again, we're not talking about dragging anyone off campus or preventing an unfunded event; just not paying speeking fees. But it's all slippery.

Anyway, queer characters in Dragon Ball. Someone said last page Goku's family indicates he isn't asexual, but I'd argue his doing the do with Chi-Chi at least twice has no bearing on that. He doesn't think with a traditional sense of sexuality.

[ABED]

Privately, yes, you should make it clear that you don't hold those sorts of views, but it's not merely slippery, it's a bad idea to let a public institution decide what speech is considered hateful. We can argue that in some cases, it's clear as day, but in other situations, it's not. I hold some very controversial ideas which is why I thinks it's vital to be able to voice them. Who should be in charge of determining what are the right views to hold? That answer is far more dangerous than some Klansman talking about his views.

[Thanos]

This is going in a direction that it probably shouldn't, huh? I appreciate Mike's willingness to leave things a bit open, and I have nothing against Milo, but what does he have to do with Dragon Ball? He's a homosexual, great. And okay, maybe he has some similarities to Whis, but such a polarizing figure just begs for the discussion to go down a dodgy road.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

This is going in a direction that it probably shouldn't, huh? I appreciate Mike's willingness to leave things a bit open, and I have nothing against Milo, but what does he have to do with Dragon Ball? He's a homosexual, great. And okay, maybe he has some similarities to Whis, but such a polarizing figure just begs for the discussion to go down a dodgy road.

I mentioned Milo as an interesting archetype for a homosexual character, not sure why anything else had to come from it.

[floofychan333]

This is going in a direction that it probably shouldn't, huh? I appreciate Mike's willingness to leave things a bit open, and I have nothing against Milo, but what does he have to do with Dragon Ball? He's a homosexual, great. And okay, maybe he has some similarities to Whis, but such a polarizing figure just begs for the discussion to go down a dodgy road.

I mentioned Milo as an interesting archetype for a homosexual character, not sure why anything else had to come from it.

Wait, just to be clear, this Milo you guys are talking about is Breitbart's Milo Yiannopoulos, right?

[Kanassa]

This is going in a direction that it probably shouldn't, huh? I appreciate Mike's willingness to leave things a bit open, and I have nothing against Milo, but what does he have to do with Dragon Ball? He's a homosexual, great. And okay, maybe he has some similarities to Whis, but such a polarizing figure just begs for the discussion to go down a dodgy road.

I mentioned Milo as an interesting archetype for a homosexual character, not sure why anything else had to come from it.

Wait, just to be clear, this Milo you guys are talking about is Breitbart's Milo Yiannopoulos, right?

Pretty sure, Milo 'I fucked your brother, didn't I?' Yiannopoulos.

[Kanassa]

. (Call it another perspective if you want, but if your main platforms include consistently belittling causes that question the fairness of the social status quo, spearheaded by marginalized groups, maybe you don't stand for anything worth backing. Women and blacks should shut up about systematic problems? What a bold stance.)

No, calling out the bullshit of certain causes and openly discussing these while inviting his opposers to freely argue with him is not hate speech. It doesn't mater if they think they're questioning the fairness of the social status quo, or if they have marginalised group. It's not hate speech. And he never says that woman and blacks should shut up about systematic problems, he says they should stop making up their problems and focus on the actual ones they have. Whether you agree with his conclusion there or not doesn't make his words hate speech.

Though that's not to say he isn't a complete git and really doesn't make situations better when people attempt to strong arm him into silence.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Without those shifts, those kinds of declarations through public decisions, we'd still be in an era of, "I don't know. Those KKK guys really do have some points worth considering."

If a Klansman says that breathing is a good thing, will you suffocate yourself?

Just because they may have some bad ideas doesn't mean that they only subscribe to bad ideas.

[Nejishiki]

I'm contributing towards a non-Dragon Ball topic but how about we focus on statements & beliefs made & pushed? I heavily dislike the practice of exaggerated scenarios for the sake of... well, I'm not sure what point could be made when that's not the issue at heart.

[mabalia]

Well, Picolo and all namekians are asexuals in canon. My favorite headcanon is that Ten Shin Han is ace too, but I don't have proof, so it's just a nice headcanon. It's nice to think that Goku and Yamcha are too, but my favorite ace still is Ten Shin Han.

And who knows, maybe in the future with the new generation they make a homosexual character. A crack pairing I like is adult Pan and adult Bra, they're cute!

[Kanassa]

A crack pairing I like is adult Pan and adult Bra, they're cute!

Can we really say that pairing would be cute when the two have barely intereacted. Hell, even in GT I've don't remember one scene where the two talked to each other... Though, I'm always for the idea that at one point somebody of Vegeta's family pairs with someone from Goku's family.

[mabalia]

A crack pairing I like is adult Pan and adult Bra, they're cute!

Can we really say that pairing would be cute when the two have barely intereacted. Hell, even in GT I've don't remember one scene where the two talked to each other... Though, I'm always for the idea that at one point somebody of Vegeta's family pairs with someone from Goku's family.

I said they can still make it in the future if they want. GT doesn't count, and there's always a way to make it work. But if Toei/Toriyama aren't interested in them, it's fine, I like Bra with Uub too (and Uub is Goku's succesor, it's like Uub is part of Son family too).

[mecha3000]

A crack pairing I like is adult Pan and adult Bra, they're cute!

Can we really say that pairing would be cute when the two have barely intereacted. Hell, even in GT I've don't remember one scene where the two talked to each other... Though, I'm always for the idea that at one point somebody of Vegeta's family pairs with someone from Goku's family.

I said they can still make it in the future if they want. GT doesn't count, and there's always a way to make it work. But if Toei/Toriyama aren't interested in them, it's fine, I like Bra with Uub too (and Uub is Goku's succesor, it's like Uub is part of Son family too).

Well, Pan and Bra are around the same age - But yeah, we've never seen them interact. Still, in the future of DB - Perhaps, Goku and Vegeta will have a son and daughter who are around the same age enough to where they can get together. Or even Gohan and Trunks? Or Goten and Trunks (probably makes the most sense)? However, this topic is about queer characters so I suppose Pan and Bra would make the most sense as far as existing characters go. But I doubt Dragon Ball would do that with characters who were created back in the '90s. I'd rather see new characters presented as being queer.

Also, Goku and Bulma's families already feel like a REAL family (especially with Vegeta being like Goku's Saiyan brother) so I don't know how I'd feel about them being officially related through their descendants.

[TheZFighter]

I really like Blue as a character but as soon as the paedo thing comes into it then yes, I find that, not only completely unnecessary (added nothing to the story or my Dragon Ball experience), but also offensive.

I don't think you can really call characters like Goku or Tien "gay". They don't exactly express interest in members of any sex, let alone the same sex!

[UltimateHammerBro]

I don't think we'll see any main character who's canonly homosexual or bisexual in the franchise. Ever.
Even in the West, recent portrayals of LGBT characters in animation have been incredibly controversial (weren't there some censored scenes in the UK broadcast of Steven Universe? I haven't seen the series, but I'd swear I've read this somewhere), so I can't imagine Japan, a country whose mentality regarding gender equality and sexual orientation seems to be several decades behind, showing it in a franchise which, at least over there, is ultimately meant for kids.
If the series continues for 50 more years, then maybe...

[Kanassa]

Even in the West, recent portrayals of LGBT characters in animation have been incredibly controversial (weren't there some censored scenes in the UK broadcast of Steven Universe? I haven't seen the series, but I'd swear I've read this somewhere)

I don't think Steven Universe was censored, the only controversy I've heard about it was the fans harassing one of the artists.

[Chuquita]

It was either a scene or a song that was cut in the UK. I forget. I dropped that show a while back and only peak in news wise when it trends on social media.

[Cipher]

If a Klansman says that breathing is a good thing, will you suffocate yourself?

Just because they may have some bad ideas doesn't mean that they only subscribe to bad ideas.

This might be the most asinine thing I've read on this forum. You know what ideas I was talking about.

[WittyUsername]

Even in the West, recent portrayals of LGBT characters in animation have been incredibly controversial (weren't there some censored scenes in the UK broadcast of Steven Universe? I haven't seen the series, but I'd swear I've read this somewhere)

I don't think Steven Universe was censored, the only controversy I've heard about it was the fans harassing one of the artists.

There actually was a pretty infamous case of queer censorship for the U.K. broadcast of the episodeWe Need toTalk: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wm2403n3R7Q.