Is Goku to be blamed if anybody dies in the Tournament?

[Ki Breaker]

Meh I feel like Goku would outright say "Its all good, we can just ask the super dragon balls to revert things back to normal"

He might say that, but what if Universe 6 gets destoryed? Even if U7 will win, Super DBs are scarttered in U6 too.

Its good, Zarama is there to whip out another set

[SansrivaaL]

Meh I feel like Goku would outright say "Its all good, we can just ask the super dragon balls to revert things back to normal"

He might say that, but what if Universe 6 gets destoryed? Even if U7 will win, Super DBs are scarttered in U6 too.

Have Bulma and the others collect all of it to U7 before shit goes down.

[Cipher]

Yes, and I love it. I don't think this episode could have been more clear about implicating him in the outcome of this tournament. Zeno had forgotten. Beerus wonders if he's been too lenient considering Goku's naivete. Beerus and Whis both warned him that Zeno's capriciousness was not to be toyed with or invoked when there's any option to avoid it, and he cavalierly pressed on simply because he's undermotivated and bored. I suspect the rift between Goku and Beerus is going to stick around for a good chunk of the arc, if not a rift between Goku and everyone around him willing to be a bit critical.

And I like how in-character that all is. Goku's bored and seeking challenge, sure, but the other trait that goes into his ignoring Beerus' warning is his simple trust that Zeno can't be as dangerous as everyone says. He has utter, complete faith in the goodness of the people around him. He really is "pure." He wants a tournament, and what could possibly go wrong? He trusts Zeno. Not enough to not toy with possible danger he knows intellectually must exist (hell, he witnessed Zeno's power and capriciousness last arc), but he trusts Zeno enough to believe nothing bad will happen.

The double-edged sword of Goku's personality has been around the entire series, but it's never been utilized in Super all that well. On the one hand, his drive and naivete continuously gain allies and change those around him for the better. On the other, those same traits bring about all kinds of disaster.

It was teased from the very beginning of the new material that if Goku were to interact with these high gods, it would lead to some sort of unfathomable catastrophe. And, as ever, while we've seen the benefits of his attitude upon the world around him -- softening Beerus, for example -- sure enough, his interaction with the gods has led to catastrophe again and again, culminating in the events of this arc. My guess is his personality will have further positive effect on Zeno before its end, but only to help avoid the disaster it sets into motion in the first place.

This is a good spot to end Super. I really hope Super ends here. This is potentially very good payoff for everyone's characters and the high-gods addendum to the story as a whole.

[DSB]

Yes, and I love it. I don't think this episode could have been more clear about implicating him in the outcome of this tournament. Zeno had forgotten. Beerus wonders if he's been too lenient considering Goku's naivete. Beerus and Whis both warned him that Zeno's capriciousness was not to be toyed with or invoked when there's any option to avoid it, and he cavalierly pressed on simply because he's undermotivated and bored. I suspect the rift between Goku and Beerus is going to stick around for a good chunk of the arc, if not a rift between Goku and everyone around him willing to be a bit critical.

And I like how in-character that all is. Goku's bored and seeking challenge, sure, but the other trait that goes into his ignoring Beerus' warning is his simple trust that Zeno can't be as dangerous as everyone says. He has utter, complete faith in the goodness of the people around him. He really is "pure." He wants a tournament, and what could possibly go wrong? He trusts Zeno. Not enough to not toy with possible danger he knows intellectually must exist (hell, he witnessed Zeno's power and capriciousness last arc), but he trusts Zeno enough to believe nothing bad will happen.

The double-edged sword of Goku's personality has been around the entire series, but it's never been utilized in Super all that well. On the one hand, his drive and naivete continuously gain allies and change those around him for the better. On the other, those same traits bring about all kinds of disaster.

It was teased from the very beginning of the new material that if Goku were to interact with these high gods, it would lead to some sort of unfathomable catastrophe. And, as ever, while we've seen the benefits of his attitude upon the world around him -- softening Beerus, for example -- sure enough, his interaction with the gods has led to catastrophe again and again, culminating in the events of this arc. My guess is his personality will have further positive effect on Zeno before its end, but only to help avoid the disaster it sets into motion in the first place.

This is a good spot to end Super. I really hope Super ends here. This is potentially very good payoff for everyone's characters and the high-gods addendum to the story as a whole.

Nah i cant see Super End without Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus and Veegta beating up Beerus for allowing Freeza to Kill the Saiyans

[Cipher]

Nah i cant see Super End without Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus and Veegta beating up Beerus for allowing Freeza to Kill the Saiyans

I genuinely think it would be a better ending if Beerus just told them to fuck off; he's never going to see them again.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I genuinely think it would be a better ending if Beerus just told them to fuck off; he's never going to see them again.

Such an ending would be the antithesis of Toriyama's style, but it would be so unexpected and cool.

However, I hope they start DB Super 2 immediately after and continue to milk it for years.

[precita]

In all seriousness Goku should already have surpassed Beerus by now. If Super Saiyan God was giving Beerus some trouble back in their first appearance, after Goku went Super Saiyan Blue and then trained on top of that for Zamasu, etc...

[Cipher]

Such an ending would be the antithesis of Toriyama's style, but it would be so unexpected and cool.

Depends on how Toriyama wants to cap off this era of the series. I could actually see it as being completely in his style.

Ex. After the tournament, Beerus is like, "Interacting with you all was a mistake." He's still been changed for the better by Goku, but he'd be completely in the right in saying that, and he and Whis would just take off. Goku and Vegeta would never get to confirm whether they've surpassed Beerus, etc. But they'd find their own healthy outlets/legacies in their students, families, and continued drives and friendly rivalry.

Goku's dream can still be super-huge without surpassing Beerus, or ever finding out if he could. Leave a little bit for Oob to explore.

I'm 100% serious about being behind that kind of ending, and at this point I half expect it.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Such an ending would be the antithesis of Toriyama's style, but it would be so unexpected and cool.

Depends on how Toriyama wants to cap off this era of the series. I could actually see it as being completely in his style.

Ex. After the tournament, Beerus is like, "Interacting with you all was a mistake." He's still been changed for the better by Goku, but he'd be completely in the right in saying that, and he and Whis would just take off. Goku and Vegeta would never get to confirm whether they've surpassed Beerus, etc. But they'd find their own healthy outlets/legacies in their students, families, and continued drives and friendly rivalry.

Goku's dream can still be super-huge without surpassing Beerus, or ever finding out if he could. Leave a little bit for Oob to explore.

I'm 100% serious about being behind that kind of ending, and at this point I half expect it.

That's what Dragon Ball Super 2 is for, Beerus comes back at some point to job for Goku and Vegeta, thereby confirming they've surpassed him.

[Beyond]

Such an ending would be the antithesis of Toriyama's style, but it would be so unexpected and cool.

Depends on how Toriyama wants to cap off this era of the series. I could actually see it as being completely in his style.

Ex. After the tournament, Beerus is like, "Interacting with you all was a mistake." He's still been changed for the better by Goku, but he'd be completely in the right in saying that, and he and Whis would just take off. Goku and Vegeta would never get to confirm whether they've surpassed Beerus, etc. But they'd find their own healthy outlets/legacies in their students, families, and continued drives and friendly rivalry.

Goku's dream can still be super-huge without surpassing Beerus, or ever finding out if he could. Leave a little bit for Oob to explore.

I'm 100% serious about being behind that kind of ending, and at this point I half expect it.

That's what Dragon Ball Super 2 is for, Beerus comes back at some point to job for Goku and Vegeta, thereby confirming they've surpassed him.

Once you beat the top tiers of the multiverse, what's next? If anything, super 2 would have to be about someone whose goal is to surpass Goku, and not Goku himself.

[Cipher]

Once you beat the top tiers of the multiverse, what's next? If anything, super 2 would have to be about someone whose goal is to surpass Goku, and not Goku himself.

That's why I liked the way Battle of Gods operates so much as a stand-alone film. I think it's a far better place to leave Goku's story with him knowing he's not the very best -- just close enough to be a contender.

That's more or less where the manga leaves things too, as several characters eclipse him over the course of the Boo arc.

I'm really not sure Toriyama has any intent to ever have him surpass the gods of destruction on his own. At this point, I think it'd be best for the story if he doesn't. It'd be the ultimate Trolliyama move to never go there, after having teased it as the ultimate goal post for five arcs.

[Ki Breaker]

Once you beat the top tiers of the multiverse, what's next? If anything, super 2 would have to be about someone whose goal is to surpass Goku, and not Goku himself.

That's why I liked the way Battle of Gods operates so much as a stand-alone film. I think it's a far better place to leave Goku's story with him knowing he's not the very best -- just close enough to be a contender.

That's more or less where the manga leaves things too, as several characters eclipse him over the course of the Boo arc.

I'm really not sure Toriyama has any intent to ever have him surpass the gods of destruction on his own. At this point, I think it'd be best for the story if he doesn't. It'd be the ultimate Trolliyama move to never go there, after having teased it as the ultimate goal post for five arcs.

So goku is just not capable of surpassing berrus ever?
Seems like a dick move especially since berrus said goku is training to be a god of destruction in this episode as well

[TheUltimateNinja]

That's what Dragon Ball Super 2 is for, Beerus comes back at some point to job for Goku and Vegeta, thereby confirming they've surpassed him.

Once you beat the top tiers of the multiverse, what's next? If anything, super 2 would have to be about someone whose goal is to surpass Goku, and not Goku himself.

Beerus isn't top tier, he's a joke to folks like Whis, who is in turn weaker than the Daishinkan, and whoever else is in the top 5 fighters of the multiverse.

[Cipher]

So goku is just not capable of surpassing berrus ever?
Seems like a dick move especially since berrus said goku is training to be a god of destruction in this episode as well

This arc has given Beerus all the reason in the world to never want to see Goku again.

And Goku's never had any interest in actually taking on the position of god of destruction. He's too kind for that, despite his bouts of selfishness and short-sightedness.

[Ki Breaker]

So goku is just not capable of surpassing berrus ever?
Seems like a dick move especially since berrus said goku is training to be a god of destruction in this episode as well

This arc has given Beerus all the reason in the world to never want to see Goku again.

And Goku's never had any interest in actually taking on the position of god of destruction. He's too kind for that, despite his bouts of selfishness and short-sightedness, which seem to be in for some major foregrounding this arc.

The thing is, goku didn't even protest when berrus said you are training to be god of destruction, he kept training, he knows what he's got into and dosen't mind it, more than likely he is going to decline the offer but that's only possible when he has at least reached berrus level or surpassed him, or there should be no offer..
It's not like goku knew omni King is gonna be a total dick, he's always been nice to Goku, he trusted him..
Dragonball isn't that deep to a evaluate possible aspect of berrus never seeing goku again, at most it would end with a squabble fight between them..

Goku might have reminded omni King when berrus said no, but it's no different than majin vegeta and goku fight at the expense of buu getting out and destroying everything when supreme kai warned them..
It's not like supreme kai dosen't talk with goku anymore or has any kind of problem towards him..

[Cipher]

Dragonball isn't that deep to a evaluate possible aspect of berrus never seeing goku again, at most it would end with a squabble fight between them..

I'd say the same thing if it weren't for the end of the Trunks arc, or even Battle of Gods as a stand-alone film.

Toriyama has definitely been willing to leave stories with weird, poignant (by Dragon Ball standards) caps as of late.

[Ki Breaker]

Dragonball isn't that deep to a evaluate possible aspect of berrus never seeing goku again, at most it would end with a squabble fight between them..

I'd say the same thing if it weren't for the end of the Trunks arc, or even Battle of Gods as a stand-alone film.

Toriyama has definitely been willing to leave stories with weird, poignant (by Dragon Ball standards) caps as of late.

I can see how super has been doing extra odd things as endings but having berrus straight up leave the next god of destruction candidate isn't gonna happen, at Least in Beerus's eyes goku is going to take his position..

It could however end with one of them turning out dead, when goku gets the same level of power they have to fight to death..
We have never even once seen previous god of destructions before, the tournaments were a prefect place to bring such powerful characters but no one came..

[SsjCookie]

It's not like he knew Zeno would lay out such extreme rules.
But than again he was warned by Whis and Beerus.

Was Future Trunks to blame for the destruction of his timeline?
In a way he was, but he never could have foreseen that psycho Zamasu would have taken offensive of his actions.
He saved the time-line we all know and love at the expense of his own, the most tragic end I have ever seen in DB.

So this is actually a good way to finally give Goku a wake up call and grow the hell up.
Goku is getting way to spoiled, things are always falling his way and it needs to stop.
I don't want to see another arc where Goku is "awesome" again and where people are like OMG Goku is the best, he's so amazing, he will save us all.......ugh!
I think It's about time he knows the taste of loss and defeat the way Future Trunks has.
Maybe we can finally see his character grow as a person then.

[HeroR]

It's not like he knew Zeno would lay out such extreme rules.
But than again he was warned by Whis and Beerus.

Was Future Trunks to blame for the destruction of his timeline?
In a way he was, but he never could have foreseen that psycho Zamasu would have taken offensive of his actions.
He saved the time-line we all know and love at the expense of his own, the most tragic end I have ever seen in DB.

So this is actually a good way to finally give Goku a wake up call and grow the hell up.
Goku is getting way to spoiled, things are always falling his way and it needs to stop.
I don't want to see another arc where Goku is "awesome" again and where people are like OMG Goku is the best, he's so amazing, he will save us all.......ugh!
I think It's about time he knows the taste of loss and defeat the way Future Trunks has.
Maybe we can finally see his character grow as a person then.

Goku has suffer lost and defeat. He got taking out by a laser by a random mook because he dropped his guard. He also was powerless against Beerus despite all his efforts and even shallowed his pride to gain the power of others. Goku just takes it in stride and doesn't really change.

Goku will never 'grow up'. If he hasn't done so when he's almost 50, he isn't going to do it now.

[Kishido]

Yes... He saw what Future Zeno did without even thinking to Trunks timeline and now just because of HIS fun he ignored all the warnings. Of course it wasn't his plan to do so but still he behaves just in his favour of fighting first.

Now let us see if we se a more serious Goku after getting knowledge about the consequences... It's time for it.

And on top on that they should start gather the Super DragonBalls...