What do you think of Super 17?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

So many mixed feelings here. Firstly, let's get this out of the way: The Super 17 Arc absolutely killed the last of GT's momentum. Even if you didn't like GT before then, it would have rounded off as an okay series at worst if it had stopped after Baby. I really want to insert a "however", but there's honestly just no dancing around it, this arc is irredeemable in every conceivable sense. Even Android 18's shining moment is countered by the fact that #1: It was made clear that 17 killed her just a few episodes prior, but more importantly...
[spoiler][/spoiler]
#2: No development came of it, there was no reason for her to be there, almost as if the whole thing was disorganized, poorly thought out fanservice (go figure). It's literally the worst story ever put out under the name "Dragon Ball", barely beating Android 13's movie.

But this wasn't really about his story arc...

What do I think of Super 13 as a villain? Actually, I give him a C+. Other than Gero's explanation of how 17 was meant to be the greatest Android from square one, I can't find many problems. He's the realization of the combination of years of work from the greatest evil scientists in the universe. A brainwashed and altered version of 17, one with the ambition of assisting Mu in conquering the universe, although still with some of 17 left intact. There's not much to say, he's a decent villain. If only his arc weren't such an abomination.

[TheUltimateNinja]

So many mixed feelings here. Firstly, let's get this out of the way: The Super 17 Arc absolutely killed the last of GT's momentum. Even if you didn't like GT before then, it would have rounded off as an okay series at worst if it had stopped after Baby. I really want to insert a "however", but there's honestly just no dancing around it, this arc is irredeemable in every conceivable sense. Even Android 18's shining moment is countered by the fact that #1: It was made clear that 17 killed her just a few episodes prior, but more importantly...
[spoiler][/spoiler]
#2: No development came of it, there was no reason for her to be there, almost as if the whole thing was disorganized, poorly thought out fanservice (go figure). It's literally the worst story ever put out under the name "Dragon Ball", barely beating Android 13's movie.

But this wasn't really about his story arc...

What do I think of Super 13 as a villain? Actually, I give him a C+. Other than Gero's explanation of how 17 was meant to be the greatest Android from square one, I can't find many problems. He's the realization of the combination of years of work from the greatest evil scientists in the universe. A brainwashed and altered version of 17, one with the ambition of assisting Mu in conquering the universe, although still with some of 17 left intact. There's not much to say, he's a decent villain. If only his arc weren't such an abomination.

What's the problem with that image? That her bra is showing?

Also, I think you mean Super 17.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

What's the problem with that image? That her bra is showing?

Also, I think you mean Super 17.

In reference to the arc as a whole.

almost as if the whole thing was disorganized, poorly thought out fanservice

The picture is a joke (but not really?)

Edit: Yes, I did mean 17. Midway through writing the post, I got to thinking about how much I hated movie 7, and let that one slip.

[Cetra]

Yeah, except getting as powerful as Freeza did through only 4 months of training (albeit a grueling one), I consider a borderline plausible explanation who was literally born with a power of 120 million. Thought Broly was impressive with his 10k? Well take Freeza with 12000x more power as nothing more than birthright. On the other hand, two 17s fusing together making Super 17 as strong as he was - yeah, no.

And I call that borderline pretentious just for the sake of bashing GT. They were both flat concepts and two 17s, with the second one being created to perfectly harmonize with the other one and destroy all possibile weaknesses of the other one from two scientists, one of them being a guy who made guys stronger than Freeza with ease, is by all means not worse than "uh plausibly better-getting guy just because he is a mutant and trained for 4 months". Both are out of nowhere concepts and just trying to excuse Freeza is really ... I can't even find any words for it. Ridiculous maybe.

[Zephyr]

During my rewatch of GT last year, this arc is actually where my enjoyment stayed the most consistent. In hindsight, I really love it, and I think it gets far too much flack. A ridiculous number of great character moments/interactions, a fight with a real sense of scale, and most of the "in-universe" oddities can be explained handily by the Dragon Balls beginning to crack before the arc begins. It's not perfect, but it was at least fun for all six of its episodes.

I think Super 17's design is reasonably cool, I have no gripes with it. What little character he had was nice.

[Lupin879]

Mine was a question.
We know that he defends himself with a barrier. I would ask the following questions because I never understood him well.
1. The barrier protects him automatically?
2. The barrier protects him from all attacks?
3. The barrier protects him from only energy attacks?
4. If he absorbs energy attacks he must be automatically stopped? So he can not defend himself from physical attack?
5. Why does he not avoid to defend himself from attacks of 18 and he defends himself from Goku's punch?