The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dragon boss z]

If Goku was fighting an Akkuman tier of fighter, they wouldn't be surprised at all. I mean, of course, your logic would work perfectly great, but only if Roshi and Yamcha hadn't saw Goku's strenght and speed in the Baba arc at all, but they did, they witnessed his strenght, they also even knew that Goku finished off the entire Red Ribbon HQ. If they knew that then obviously why would they be worried for him against a fighter like Chappa?

Roshi never thought Goku would lose. He just thought Chappa might be enough to actually test Goku a bit. Yamcha is just a chump. And ya I see a good argument for Chappa being above Akkuman, but not Tao. Tao is on a completely different level. And when characters talk about him, they talk as if he is on another level. Roshi, Tsuru, and Tao are all on a level above every other human.

[dragonball0900]

Roshi never thought Goku would lose. He just thought Chappa might be enough to actually test Goku a bit. Yamcha is just a chump. And ya I see a good argument for Chappa being above Akkuman, but not Tao. Tao is on a completely different level. And when characters talk about him, they talk as if he is on another level. Roshi, Tsuru, and Tao are all on a level above every other human.

Roshi did think that Goku would have problems against him. Implying that he did think Chappa was even worse than, let's say Grandpa Gohan, or even the entire HQ of the Red Ribbon Army.

They talk as if Tao was a difficult opponent, but they also say the same about Chappa, right? They said things like that about Chappa, about how dangerous he was, his techniques, movements, how Goku woueven when they saw Goku's strenght 3 years ago. That Goku from 3 years ago was obviously stronger than Tao. So Chappa logically has to be stronger than Tao.

[dragon boss z]

Roshi did think that Goku would have problems against him. Implying that he did think Chappa was even worse than, let's say Grandpa Gohan, or even the entire HQ of the Red Ribbon Army.

They talk as if Tao was a difficult opponent, but they also say the same about Chappa, right? They said things like that about Chappa, about how dangerous he was, his techniques, movements, how Goku woueven when they saw Goku's strenght 3 years ago. That Goku from 3 years ago was obviously stronger than Tao. So Chappa logically has to be stronger than Tao.

What did he say that made him think Goku would have problems? And Goku had problems against the red ribbon army and Grandpa Gohan, so Chappa giving him problems (which he didn't) doesn't prove he is more dangerous than Gohan or the red ribbon army.

And Goku even post Korrin had a harder time against Tao than Akkuman, and Gohan didn't really even fare much better than Tao. Saying Tao is weaker than Chappa because Roshi said Goku will get to show off his strength against him even though Roshi couldn't even believe Goku beat Tao isn't logical. Tao has better feats and better statements backing him up.

[dragonball0900]

What did he say that made him think Goku would have problems? And Goku had problems against the red ribbon army and Grandpa Gohan, so Chappa giving him problems (which he didn't) doesn't prove he is more dangerous than Gohan or the red ribbon army.

And Goku even post Korrin had a harder time against Tao than Akkuman, and Gohan didn't really even fare much better than Tao. Saying Tao is weaker than Chappa because Roshi said Goku will get to show off his strength against him even though Roshi couldn't even believe Goku beat Tao isn't logical. Tao has better feats and better statements backing him up.

When Roshi first arrive to see the match, he said that Goku was going to have a really tough fight. And let's remember that Roshi knew Goku has improved from 3 years earlier, and despite that he still wasn't sure if Goku was going to win. That means he surely would be stronger than Gohan or the Red Ribbon Army.
Let's also remember that Chappa won a tournament without his opponents being able to touch him. And we did remember opponents like Bacterian, Ranfan, Giran or Nam that were indeed able to touch 21st Goku. There's also Pamputt who could be easily around that version of Goku's level too. Fighters that are around the level of those said ones could have fought Chappa. That's what makes Roshi amazed of him. Also I disagree that Yamcha is a chump when it comes to information about the fighters on the tournaments, because we know from many parts of the manga that that's not the case.
Roshi was probably amazed to know that Goku also defeated Tao. There's also the possible reason that Roshi probably didn't know Tao's strenght. Because it's also not logical for him to think that an improved Goku would have trouble against Chappa, when he saw him against Baba's fighters, Gohan, and also knew that he finished off the entire Red Ribbon.

[dragon boss z]

When Roshi first arrive to see the match, he said that Goku was going to have a really tough fight. And let's remember that Roshi knew Goku has improved from 3 years earlier, and despite that he still wasn't sure if Goku was going to win. That means he surely would be stronger than Gohan or the Red Ribbon Army.
Let's also remember that Chappa won a tournament without his opponents being able to touch him. And we did remember opponents like Bacterian, Ranfan, Giran or Nam that were indeed able to touch 21st Goku. There's also Pamputt who could be easily around that version of Goku's level too. Fighters that are around the level of those said ones could have fought Chappa. That's what makes Roshi amazed of him. Also I disagree that Yamcha is a chump when it comes to information about the fighters on the tournaments, because we know from many parts of the manga that that's not the case.
Roshi was probably amazed to know that Goku also defeated Tao. There's also the possible reason that Roshi probably didn't know Tao's strenght. Because it's also not logical for him to think that an improved Goku would have trouble against Chappa, when he saw him against Baba's fighters, Gohan, and also knew that he finished off the entire Red Ribbon.

Roshi never said Goku was going to have a tough fight.

Bacterian, Ranfan, Giran, and Nam wouldn't of been able to touch Roshi if he didn't want them to.

Your argument of Roshi not knowing Tao's strength, but somehow knowing Chappa's doesn't make sense. Defeating the budokai contestants without getting touched isn't impressive for Tao, and making it look like you have 8 arms isn't impressive for him either.

[Ki Breaker]

Ginyu force VS The pride troopers!
Begin!
I say Ginyu force wreaks those pansies

[RehBeh]

Ginyu force VS The pride troopers!
Begin!
I say Ginyu force wreaks those pansies

Ghurd solo's.

[dragonball0900]

Roshi never said Goku was going to have a tough fight.

Bacterian, Ranfan, Giran, and Nam wouldn't of been able to touch Roshi if he didn't want them to.

Your argument of Roshi not knowing Tao's strength, but somehow knowing Chappa's doesn't make sense. Defeating the budokai contestants without getting touched isn't impressive for Tao, and making it look like you have 8 arms isn't impressive for him either.

Roshi did say Goku was going to have a tough fight, I remember it quite well when they were discussing about Chappa.

There could've been many fighters around their level, or even Pamputt's (who is probably around 21st Budokai Goku level) that could be able to touch Chappa. Both him and Tao could've done the same, yes, but is still quite impressive for both.

Well, maybe Roshi didn't know any of Chappa or Tao's strenghts, but (as I say again) he was still worried about Goku's match with Chappa. Roshi didn't know at all that Goku defeated Tao until that moment, that could've been a shock to him, that's why, specially since Tao was Tsuru's brother.

If they hadn't seen Goku's strenght and speed in Baba's palace or if they hadn't known about Goku defeating the entire Red Ribbon HQ, I would have accept Chappa being below Tao.

[Noah]

New match:

- CG SSJ Kid Gohan (full power) vs. Boo arc SSJ Goku (full power)

[dragonball0900]

New match:

- CG SSJ Kid Gohan (full power) vs. Boo arc SSJ Goku (full power)

Goku wins. The reason why it's because even if Gohan lost power during the 7 years, it really wasn't that much. And it was also stated by Majin Vegeta that SSJ2 Buu Saga Goku was stronger than SSJ2 Cell Games Gohan, so the same would apply to their SSJ forms.

[DanielSSJ]

New match:

- CG SSJ Kid Gohan (full power) vs. Boo arc SSJ Goku (full power)

Goku has been stated to have surpassed the power that Gohan had when he was a kid, and given that he's mentally more suited for battle, he would win easily.

[TheUltimateNinja]

New match:

- CG SSJ Kid Gohan (full power) vs. Boo arc SSJ Goku (full power)

Goku has been stated to have surpassed the power that Gohan had when he was a kid, and given that he's mentally more suited for battle, he would win easily.

How about Dabura vs Cell Arc SSJ Goku?

[DBZAOTA482]

East Kaioshin vs. SSJ2 Goku (Boo Saga)/SSJ2 Majin Vegeta

Someone on the Dragon Ball Board of GameFaQs claimed Kaioshin is strongest than SSJ2 characters.

Who wins?

[dragon boss z]

Roshi did say Goku was going to have a tough fight, I remember it quite well when they were discussing about Chappa.

There could've been many fighters around their level, or even Pamputt's (who is probably around 21st Budokai Goku level) that could be able to touch Chappa. Both him and Tao could've done the same, yes, but is still quite impressive for both.

Well, maybe Roshi didn't know any of Chappa or Tao's strenghts, but (as I say again) he was still worried about Goku's match with Chappa. Roshi didn't know at all that Goku defeated Tao until that moment, that could've been a shock to him, that's why, specially since Tao was Tsuru's brother.

If they hadn't seen Goku's strenght and speed in Baba's palace or if they hadn't known about Goku defeating the entire Red Ribbon HQ, I would have accept Chappa being below Tao.

Show me the scan where Roshi said Goku would have trouble.

Pamputt isn't 21st Goku level. He might be Nam level. Roshi pretty much knew that nobody could beat Goku, that is why he joined the tournament.

Again Roshi was never surprised Goku beat Chappa. He was surprised Goku beat the red rebbion army and Tao. Post Korrin Goku could one shot both Chappa and Akkuman, but not Tao.









This is the same version of Goku, so we know for a fact that Tao is above Akkuman. And based of of Roshi's statement that could mean Chappa is above Akkuman, but it doesn't mean he is above Tao. Goku wasn't even going all out on Akkuman.

[DBZAOTA482]

When Roshi first arrive to see the match, he said that Goku was going to have a really tough fight. And let's remember that Roshi knew Goku has improved from 3 years earlier, and despite that he still wasn't sure if Goku was going to win. That means he surely would be stronger than Gohan or the Red Ribbon Army.
Let's also remember that Chappa won a tournament without his opponents being able to touch him. And we did remember opponents like Bacterian, Ranfan, Giran or Nam that were indeed able to touch 21st Goku. There's also Pamputt who could be easily around that version of Goku's level too. Fighters that are around the level of those said ones could have fought Chappa. That's what makes Roshi amazed of him. Also I disagree that Yamcha is a chump when it comes to information about the fighters on the tournaments, because we know from many parts of the manga that that's not the case.
Roshi was probably amazed to know that Goku also defeated Tao. There's also the possible reason that Roshi probably didn't know Tao's strenght. Because it's also not logical for him to think that an improved Goku would have trouble against Chappa, when he saw him against Baba's fighters, Gohan, and also knew that he finished off the entire Red Ribbon.

Roshi never said Goku was going to have a tough fight.

Bacterian, Ranfan, Giran, and Nam wouldn't of been able to touch Roshi if he didn't want them to.

Your argument of Roshi not knowing Tao's strength, but somehow knowing Chappa's doesn't make sense. Defeating the budokai contestants without getting touched isn't impressive for Tao, and making it look like you have 8 arms isn't impressive for him either.

Except Jackie Chun outright said Goku would have a tough fight in that scan the guy showed to you.

Also, Chun likely feared the wrath of the Crane School rather than it being about Tao's strength and it was likely to empathize how great Goku is in general to beat someone as skilled as Tao.

[dragon boss z]

Except Jackie Chun outright said Goku would have a tough fight in that scan the guy showed to you.

Also, Chun likely feared the wrath of the Crane School rather than it being about Tao's strength and it was likely to empathize how great Goku is in general to beat someone as skilled as Tao.

I assume you menat the scan I posted... And he says Goku is starting with a sticky match, that doesn't mean it will definitely be a tough fight, it just means it is harder than most starting matches.

Again in the scan I showed Roshi even mentions how Tao is the greatest assasin in the world and that was what was surprising. You guys really seem like to twist the manga to fit your head canon that you don't want to change. Tao is clearly above Chappa and it really shouldn't even be up for debate.

[dragonball0900]

I assume you menat the scan I posted... And he says Goku is starting with a sticky match, that doesn't mean it will definitely be a tough fight, it just means it is harder than most starting matches.

Again in the scan I showed Roshi even mentions how Tao is the greatest assasin in the world and that was what was surprising. You guys really seem like to twist the manga to fit your head canon that you don't want to change. Tao is clearly above Chappa and it really shouldn't even be up for debate.

In the scans you posted, Tao is obviously stronger than Akkuman that's something we all agree, but Goku seemed to be toying with Tao most of the fight, and was only having problems in few parts.

Roshi also was thinking: "Now we'll see how much he's developed over the last 3 years". And he was also sweating through the whole match.
Roshi and Yamcha also thought Goku was fast when he punched Chappa the first time. If Chappa was weaker than Tao, and the punch for them was fast, then Chappa probably would've been knocked out, but he wasn't, he was still up.

Also Yamcha and Roshi's comments. Yamcha said he didn't think anyone could beat Chappa so easily, and Roshi said that this was going to be bad for him. Why would Roshi say that? Chappa was there for testing Goku's new strenght, since it just wouldn't make sense to bring a weaker opponent to fight Goku if we first have to know how much he improved.

And I agree with DBZAOTA482 here, to empathize that Goku was able to defeat someone as skilled as Tao, as well as how the Crane School would react. Many evidences are pointing that Chappa is the one who is stronger than Tao, and to an extent, Post Korin Goku.

[dragon boss z]

In the scans you posted, Tao is obviously stronger than Akkuman that's something we all agree, but Goku seemed to be toying with Tao most of the fight, and was only having problems in few parts.

Roshi also was thinking: "Now we'll see how much he's developed over the last 3 years". And he was also sweating through the whole match.
Roshi and Yamcha also thought Goku was fast when he punched Chappa the first time. If Chappa was weaker than Tao, and the punch for them was fast, then Chappa probably would've been knocked out, but he wasn't, he was still up.

Also Yamcha and Roshi's comments. Yamcha said he didn't think anyone could beat Chappa so easily, and Roshi said that this was going to be bad for him. Why would Roshi say that? Chappa was there for testing Goku's new strenght, since it just wouldn't make sense to bring a weaker opponent to fight Goku if we first have to know how much he improved.

And I agree with DBZAOTA482 here, to empathize that Goku was able to defeat someone as skilled as Tao, as well as how the Crane School would react. Many evidences are pointing that Chappa is the one who is stronger than Tao, and to an extent, Post Korin Goku.

But like I said Roshi was never surprised Goku one, he was just surprised how he won and the others were surprised how easy he won. and Yamcha didn't even lose sight of Goku like how Roshi lost sight of Goku vs Akkuman, and Roshi>>>Yamcha.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I'll toss some numbers into this debate.
Goku: 24
Tao: 50
Goku (Post Karin): 70
Akkuman: 35
Chappa: 70
Goku (Budokai): 100

[DBZAOTA482]

Except Jackie Chun outright said Goku would have a tough fight in that scan the guy showed to you.

Also, Chun likely feared the wrath of the Crane School rather than it being about Tao's strength and it was likely to empathize how great Goku is in general to beat someone as skilled as Tao.

I assume you menat the scan I posted... And he says Goku is starting with a sticky match, that doesn't mean it will definitely be a tough fight, it just means it is harder than most starting matches.

Again in the scan I showed Roshi even mentions how Tao is the greatest assasin in the world and that was what was surprising. You guys really seem like to twist the manga to fit your head canon that you don't want to change. Tao is clearly above Chappa and it really shouldn't even be up for debate.

But sticky is like a term for tough and the others did expect Goku to have difficulty... but were shocked Chapa didn't give him difficulty and only because Goku gotten way stronger than expected.

Chun specifically mentioned Tao was Crane's younger brother so it's safe to assume he feared the wrath of the Crane School. No need to be so close-minded.