The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[DanielSSJ]

How about Dabura vs Cell Arc SSJ Goku?

While Gohan was at a disadvantage against the King of Demons, he wasn't completely outclassed either, and given Gohan's reduced strength and skill, I don't think Dabra would be quite as strong as Full Power Perfect Cell, though he's probably got more power than Cell was using against Goku. Cell Games Goku is somewhat weaker than Gohan, but also a lot more skilled, so I suppose Goku might be able to manage something if he fights cleverly enough, though he's definitely at a disadvantage, all things considered. Dabra wins seven out of ten times.

East Kaioshin vs. SSJ2 Goku (Boo Saga)/SSJ2 Majin Vegeta

Someone on the Dragon Ball Board of GameFaQs claimed Kaioshin is stronger than SSJ2 characters.

Who wins?

Goku wins no contest. Even weak and rusty Gohan would be more than a match for Shin with his regular Super Saiyan form in raw power. While Shin might get some use out of his paralysis trick, It didn't seem that he could do much of anything while holding SS2 Gohan in place, so he probably wouldn't be able to fight back like that.

[dragon boss z]

But sticky is like a term for tough and the others did expect Goku to have difficulty... but were shocked Chapa didn't give him difficulty and only because Goku gotten way stronger than expected.

Chun specifically mentioned Tao was Crane's younger brother so it's safe to assume he feared the wrath of the Crane School. No need to be so close-minded.

Roshi "Tao Pai Pai the legendary world's number 1 assassin... and this lad..he.. he..." Which means Roshi was clearly talking about Tao's power. After that he just mentioned how he was Tsuru's younger brother. And there is no reason for Roshi to feat Tsuru anyways.

And it isn't closed minded. Saying Chappa is stronger than Tao is just as bad as the people who say Pui Pui is stronger than Frieza. You could make farfetched arguments for both but chances are both are weaker.

[dragon boss z]

I'll toss some numbers into this debate.
Goku: 24
Tao: 50
Goku (Post Karin): 70
Akkuman: 35
Chappa: 70
Goku (Budokai): 100

I disagree

Goku BOS: 10 (daizenshuu)
Goku 21st: 100 (strong enough to compete with Roshi)
Roshi 21st: 110-130 (weaker than 139)
Buff Roshi: 200 (maybe higher)
Tao: 115 (strong enough to beat Goku, probably around his brother's strenght)
Tsuru: 120 (daizenshuu)
Akkuman: 60 (can be one shot by Goku)
Gohan: 125 (strong enough to fight with Goku, probably stronger than Tsuru)
Goku post Korin: 130 (strong enough to beat Tao and enough to make Roshi worried)
Chappa: 90 (stronger than Akkuman)
Roshi 22nd: 139-180 (his resting state is 139, so he is at least that level)
Goku 22nd: 180 (daizenshuu)

[Gog]

Who would win.

Kaio Ken x40 finial form 100% Freeza or SS4 Namek Saga Goku

[DanielSSJ]

Who would win.

Kaio Ken x40 finial form 100% Freeza or SS4 Namek Saga Goku

Goku would win, no contest. Multiplying Freeza's full power with Kaioken x40 would put him at nearly 5 billion, around the same level as Perfect Cell, but Super Saiyan 4 is at least 10x stronger than SS3 (it's actually probably a lot more than that, given how SS4 Goku wasn't completely outclassed by Great Ape Baby), so he'd be at least 12 billion, around the same strength as Fat Boo. Besides, even if Goku and Freeza were evenly matched, Super Saiyan 4 is known for it's low energy consumption, while Kaioken is known for the exact opposite, and Goku would easily outlast Freeza.

[Gog]

Who would win.

Kaio Ken x40 finial form 100% Freeza or SS4 Namek Saga Goku

Goku would win, not contest. Multiplying Freeza's full power with Kaioken x40 would put him at nearly 5 billion, around the same level as Perfect Cell, but Super Saiyan 4 is at least 10x stronger than SS3 (probably more so, given how SS4 Goku wasn't completely outclassed by Great Ape Baby), so he'd be at least 12 billion, around the same strength as Fat Boo. Besides, even if Goku and Freeza were evenly matched, Super Saiyan 4 is known for it's low energy consumption, while Kaioken is known for the exact opposite, and Goku would easily outlast Freeza.

Would the fifth form even the odds for Freeza? I seem to remember it giving Coola a large boost in power.

[DanielSSJ]

Would the fifth form even the odds for Freeza? I seem to remember it giving Coola a large boost in power.

That would still be a pretty big stretch. In my mind, Coola's Fifth Form is a 1.5x boost, letting him go from slightly weaker than Freeza's 100% to slightly stronger than it. Freeza would need to double or triple his strength at the very least to hope to hold a candle to SS4 Goku, and once again, Kaioken's strain makes it next to impossible for Freeza to compete with the more natural and efficient Super Saiyan 4.

[apex_pretador]

Saiyan Saga Goku Kaioken x3 (no drawbacks) vs Zarbon and Dodoria

Goku can take Dodoria rather handily, but not Zarbon, especially if he transforms. Not to mention Gokus lack of killing intent would cost him

23rd Budokai Tenshinhan vs Young Piccolo Daimao

23rd Budokai Krillin vs Young Piccolo Daimao

Dead Grandpa Gohan vs 22nd Budokai Muten Roshi

Not really fair. Tenshinhan is much stronger than Piccolo and far faster. Infact this isn't even close.

Krillin is a better matchup but his lack of feats cost him. By my power levels however, he ends up taking a win in a hard fought battle.

Roshi handily

1. Tien mentioning Goku got stronger, but not faster, and how he worked his speed is clear evidence different stats can be changed. It's possible Tien's power level could of surpassed King Piccolo's, but there is nothing to prove it.
22nd Goku could see Old King Piccolo's movements. He even landed some hits. And the only hit Yamcha could get on Kami was a surprise attack. He wasn't able to dodge or see any of Kami's moves and Kami wasn't even serious.

Tien stated goku got "far, far stronger" and proeeded to match him blow for blow, before increasing his speed. They were dead even, and inb4 you bring Roshi's statement that they were not equals it was because of Kami's training which taught goku to improve his stamina.
Tien = weighted goku >> kid goku >= Piccolo daimao in strength
Tien >> Weighted goku >> Kid goku >= Piccolo daimao in speed

New match:

- CG SSJ Kid Gohan (full power) vs. Boo arc SSJ Goku (full power)

Goku wrecks his son, and that's by power alone, and not counting his techniques like IT, much better skill, better energy effeciency etc.

Who would win.

Kaio Ken x40 finial form 100% Freeza or SS4 Namek Saga Goku

Freeza would explode from lack of stamina.

[Gog]

Would the fifth form even the odds for Freeza? I seem to remember it giving Coola a large boost in power.

That would still be a pretty big stretch. In my mind, Coola's Fifth Form is a 1.5x boost, letting him go from slightly weaker than Freeza's 100% to slightly stronger than it. Freeza would need to double or triple his strength at the very least to hope to hold a candle to SS4 Goku, and once again, Kaioken's strain makes it next to impossible for Freeza to compete with the more natural and efficient Super Saiyan 4.

But here's the thing. Coola was as strong as base form Goku, the movie literally confirms this notion. Hell in the Japanese version Goku's apparently as strong as Freeza. But eh, it really doesn't matter in the end as Freeza explodes from the massive Kaio Ken.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I'll toss some numbers into this debate.
Goku: 24
Tao: 50
Goku (Post Karin): 70
Akkuman: 35
Chappa: 70
Goku (Budokai): 100

I disagree

Goku BOS: 10 (daizenshuu)
Goku 21st: 100 (strong enough to compete with Roshi)
Roshi 21st: 110-130 (weaker than 139)
Buff Roshi: 200 (maybe higher)
Tao: 115 (strong enough to beat Goku, probably around his brother's strenght)
Tsuru: 120 (daizenshuu)
Akkuman: 60 (can be one shot by Goku)
Gohan: 125 (strong enough to fight with Goku, probably stronger than Tsuru)
Goku post Korin: 130 (strong enough to beat Tao and enough to make Roshi worried)
Chappa: 90 (stronger than Akkuman)
Roshi 22nd: 139-180 (his resting state is 139, so he is at least that level)
Goku 22nd: 180 (daizenshuu)

The Daizenshuu power levels for the original DB are nonsense. The Daizenshuu says Piccolo Daimao (Young) is at 260 while 22nd Budokai Goku is at 180 which totally contradicts Old Piccolo destroying Goku with less than half his power. Also, Karin says Goku became many times stronger from the water training, and Roshi says Mummy Man could probably beat Budokai Goku, yet Goku oneshots him with no effort and completely toys with Akkuman who is even stronger than Mummy Man. He also easily outclasses Tao who nearly oneshotted him pre-training and tanked his Kamehameha with only clothing damage. so Post-Karin Goku has to be at least ~3x Pre-Karin Goku,

Also, Roshi says he trained a lot between the 21st and 22nd Budokais, so he's much lower than 139 at the 21st Budokai. He was about equal to Pre-Karin Goku, yet at the 22nd Budokai he's stronger than Post-Karin Goku and nearly as strong as 22nd Budokai Goku's match level power.

[RehBeh]

Dabra VS. Frost.
Dabra's spit is allowed.
Frost begins in First Form.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Dabra VS. Frost.
Dabra's spit is allowed.
Frost begins in First Form.

Frost gets crushed unless he goes Final Form immediately in which case he ends up with a considerable power advantage that Dabura can't overcome unless he gets lucky with his spit.

[DBZAOTA482]

But sticky is like a term for tough and the others did expect Goku to have difficulty... but were shocked Chapa didn't give him difficulty and only because Goku gotten way stronger than expected.

Chun specifically mentioned Tao was Crane's younger brother so it's safe to assume he feared the wrath of the Crane School. No need to be so close-minded.

Roshi "Tao Pai Pai the legendary world's number 1 assassin... and this lad..he.. he..." Which means Roshi was clearly talking about Tao's power. After that he just mentioned how he was Tsuru's younger brother. And there is no reason for Roshi to feat Tsuru anyways.

And it isn't closed minded. Saying Chappa is stronger than Tao is just as bad as the people who say Pui Pui is stronger than Frieza. You could make farfetched arguments for both but chances are both are weaker.

No it doesn't necessarily mean that and it doesn't make much sense for Jackie Chun to hold Tao's power with such a high regard at a point in the series where his power would be irrelevant especially when Chun himself was way more power than Tao. If Chun just mentioned Tao being Tsuru's younger brother for the sake of it when it clearly meant to be a significant piece of info then it's just bad writing.

Uhh... no it's nowhere near the same. Chapa can be argued as stronger than Tao but people like you are just too stubborn and narrow-minded to accept the possibility while there's literally nothing that makes Pui-Pui comparable to Freeza.

[TheUltimateNinja]

But sticky is like a term for tough and the others did expect Goku to have difficulty... but were shocked Chapa didn't give him difficulty and only because Goku gotten way stronger than expected.

Chun specifically mentioned Tao was Crane's younger brother so it's safe to assume he feared the wrath of the Crane School. No need to be so close-minded.

Roshi "Tao Pai Pai the legendary world's number 1 assassin... and this lad..he.. he..." Which means Roshi was clearly talking about Tao's power. After that he just mentioned how he was Tsuru's younger brother. And there is no reason for Roshi to feat Tsuru anyways.

And it isn't closed minded. Saying Chappa is stronger than Tao is just as bad as the people who say Pui Pui is stronger than Frieza. You could make farfetched arguments for both but chances are both are weaker.

No it doesn't necessarily mean that and it doesn't make much sense for Jackie Chun to hold Tao's power with such a high regard at a point in the series where his power would be irrelevant especially when Chun himself was way more power than Tao. If Chun just mentioned Tao being Tsuru's younger brother for the sake of it when it clearly meant to be a significant piece of info then it's just bad writing.

Uhh... no it's nowhere near the same. Chapa can be argued as stronger than Tao but people like you are just too stubborn and narrow-minded to accept the possibility while there's literally nothing that makes Pui-Pui comparable to Freeza.

The manga pretty clearly suggests that Chappa > Tao if you consider the power statements and implications. After his Karin training Goku was on a completely different level than Tao, he took his strongest attacks with barely any damage and was wrecking him without even trying.

Then Roshi and the others personally witness his power against Uranai Baba's fighters, and they see Goku nearly pushed to his limit against Gohan, which by the way shows that even Gohan > Tao, so they know Goku's capabilities. Then 3 years later they're unsure if Goku can beat him, and Yamcha even goes so far as to say Goku "If he's really on, may squeak on by." And Kuririn thinks Goku gave it all he had to beat Chappa the way he did.

So this means that even after 3 years of training they were still expecting Chappa to give Goku a hard time, so Chappa should at least be comparable to Post-Karin Goku which means he could easily wreck Tao.

[DanielSSJ]

But here's the thing. Coola was as strong as base form Goku, the movie literally confirms this notion. Hell in the Japanese version Goku's apparently as strong as Freeza. But eh, it really doesn't matter in the end as Freeza explodes from the massive Kaio Ken.

I don't re-watch the movies very much, so my memory of them is pretty spotty, but from my point-of-view, Coola never quite gave it his all in his base form. We never see him power up and get all muscly like Freeza was at 100%. He probably thought Freeza got careless and got knocked off at a lower form or low percentage of his power. Then when Coola sees Goku transform, it's like a light bulb goes off. "Oh so that's how he did it! That makes more sense."

That or Toei can't power scale to save their lives.

[dragonball0900]

East Kaioshin vs. SSJ2 Goku (Boo Saga)/SSJ2 Majin Vegeta

Someone on the Dragon Ball Board of GameFaQs claimed Kaioshin is strongest than SSJ2 characters.

Who wins?

Goku/Vegeta stomps easily. Even SSJ1 Buu Saga Gohan would win this, since he was able to take out the sword from the rock while it's stated that Supreme Kai couldn't.

Who would win.

Kaio Ken x40 finial form 100% Freeza or SS4 Namek Saga Goku

Goku wins this, since Frieza would get to 4,800,000,000 while Goku would get a X10 multiplier from SSJ3, being 150,000,000 X2 X4 X10 being 12,000,000,000.

I disagree

Goku BOS: 10 (daizenshuu)
Goku 21st: 100 (strong enough to compete with Roshi)
Roshi 21st: 110-130 (weaker than 139)
Buff Roshi: 200 (maybe higher)
Tao: 115 (strong enough to beat Goku, probably around his brother's strenght)
Tsuru: 120 (daizenshuu)
Akkuman: 60 (can be one shot by Goku)
Gohan: 125 (strong enough to fight with Goku, probably stronger than Tsuru)
Goku post Korin: 130 (strong enough to beat Tao and enough to make Roshi worried)
Chappa: 90 (stronger than Akkuman)
Roshi 22nd: 139-180 (his resting state is 139, so he is at least that level)
Goku 22nd: 180 (daizenshuu)

I recommend you not to use the Daizenshuu numbers, they contradict a lot with the manga statements, such as 23rd Tien being weaker than King Piccolo, or BOZ Yamcha being weaker than 22nd Goku. They just don't make sense.

[dragon boss z]

1. Tien mentioning Goku got stronger, but not faster, and how he worked his speed is clear evidence different stats can be changed. It's possible Tien's power level could of surpassed King Piccolo's, but there is nothing to prove it.
22nd Goku could see Old King Piccolo's movements. He even landed some hits. And the only hit Yamcha could get on Kami was a surprise attack. He wasn't able to dodge or see any of Kami's moves and Kami wasn't even serious.

Tien stated goku got "far, far stronger" and proeeded to match him blow for blow, before increasing his speed. They were dead even, and inb4 you bring Roshi's statement that they were not equals it was because of Kami's training which taught goku to improve his stamina.
Tien = weighted goku >> kid goku >= Piccolo daimao in strength
Tien >> Weighted goku >> Kid goku >= Piccolo daimao in speed

Can I see the scan you are talking about? And what do you think about the debate going on about King Chappa vs Tao?

[dragon boss z]

The Daizenshuu power levels for the original DB are nonsense. The Daizenshuu says Piccolo Daimao (Young) is at 260 while 22nd Budokai Goku is at 180 which totally contradicts Old Piccolo destroying Goku with less than half his power. Also, Karin says Goku became many times stronger from the water training, and Roshi says Mummy Man could probably beat Budokai Goku, yet Goku oneshots him with no effort and completely toys with Akkuman who is even stronger than Mummy Man. He also easily outclasses Tao who nearly oneshotted him pre-training and tanked his Kamehameha with only clothing damage. so Post-Karin Goku has to be at least ~3x Pre-Karin Goku,

Also, Roshi says he trained a lot between the 21st and 22nd Budokais, so he's much lower than 139 at the 21st Budokai. He was about equal to Pre-Karin Goku, yet at the 22nd Budokai he's stronger than Post-Karin Goku and nearly as strong as 22nd Budokai Goku's match level power.

I'm pretty sure young Piccolo was never stated to be twice as strong as old Piccolo.

You are right about the mummby thing though. Maybe 21st Goku whould be like 50, Mummyman 60, Akkuman 70
I doubt Goku got 3x stronger though. Tao was still strong enough to hurt Goku post Korin. Maybe twice as strong.

And Roshi doesn't have to be much lower than 139, because 139 was just resting Roshi. It's possible resting Roshi was like 100 druing the 21st, but when he got serious 130. And 22nd Roshi resting was 139 and when he got serious 170.

[dragon boss z]

No it doesn't necessarily mean that and it doesn't make much sense for Jackie Chun to hold Tao's power with such a high regard at a point in the series where his power would be irrelevant especially when Chun himself was way more power than Tao. If Chun just mentioned Tao being Tsuru's younger brother for the sake of it when it clearly meant to be a significant piece of info then it's just bad writing.

Uhh... no it's nowhere near the same. Chapa can be argued as stronger than Tao but people like you are just too stubborn and narrow-minded to accept the possibility while there's literally nothing that makes Pui-Pui comparable to Freeza.

The mention of Tao being Tsuru's brother was just to make the story more interesting. We weren't supposed to be scared of Tsuru. Roshi could one shot Tsuru if he realy wanted.

There is nothing Chappa did to compare or say he is stronger than Tao. Like I said you clearly have some agenda to want him to be stronger and it's obvious if you asked Toriyama he would say Tao would win. Certain characters are just supposed to be above others. And Tao has both better feats and statements backing him up. I really don't think you see how bad the argument "Roshi said Chappa is a sticky first match" is. If Tao was Goku's first match Roshi would most likely be way more sworried. And Roshi wasn't even surprised that Goku won, he was clearly only surprised that Goku stopped him self from falling with just his breath. Of courses there is a small chance Chappa is stronger, but why argue a 5% chance? The chance is low enough where it should be ignored.

Ok if you don't like the Pui-pui comparison I will use Yakkon since the supreme Kai herd of him. Yakkon was also weaker than Frieza.

[dragon boss z]

[quote="TheUltimateNinja"

The manga pretty clearly suggests that Chappa > Tao if you consider the power statements and implications. After his Karin training Goku was on a completely different level than Tao, he took his strongest attacks with barely any damage and was wrecking him without even trying.

Then Roshi and the others personally witness his power against Uranai Baba's fighters, and they see Goku nearly pushed to his limit against Gohan, which by the way shows that even Gohan > Tao, so they know Goku's capabilities. Then 3 years later they're unsure if Goku can beat him, and Yamcha even goes so far as to say Goku "If he's really on, may squeak on by." And Kuririn thinks Goku gave it all he had to beat Chappa the way he did.

So this means that even after 3 years of training they were still expecting Chappa to give Goku a hard time, so Chappa should at least be comparable to Post-Karin Goku which means he could easily wreck Tao.[/quote]

No it doesn't, the manga clearly suggests Tao was stronger than Chappa. Roshi said Chappa could be a sticky match, while he couldn't even believe Goku beat Tao.

And only after seeing Goku's power against Panput did Crane start to realize he might of been able to beat Tao.