The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[TheUltimateNinja]

Invent the minimum powerup necessary for Boo arc Piccolo to defeat Boohan.

Ex. Golden Oozaru Piccolo with Kaioken x20 or some nonsensical thing like that. But the fun is determining the MINIMUM that's necessary, so don't go overboard.

Viewing my numbers, I have Buu arc Piccolo needing a Kaioken X20 Oozaru Piccolo (coincidentally with your example, except with the Golden). They would be nearly equals, but Piccolo would probably have the edge.
It can also be a Kaioken X2 SSJ2 Piccolo.
Kaioken X3 SSJ2 Piccolo would already defeat him easily.

Buu has regeneration, nigh infinite stamina and more techniques, Piccolo needs a considerable advantage to take the win.

[dragonball0900]

Invent the minimum powerup necessary for Boo arc Piccolo to defeat Boohan.

Ex. Golden Oozaru Piccolo with Kaioken x20 or some nonsensical thing like that. But the fun is determining the MINIMUM that's necessary, so don't go overboard.

Viewing my numbers, I have Buu arc Piccolo needing a Kaioken X20 Oozaru Piccolo (coincidentally with your example, except with the Golden). They would be nearly equals, but Piccolo would probably have the edge.
It can also be a Kaioken X2 SSJ2 Piccolo.
Kaioken X3 SSJ2 Piccolo would already defeat him easily.

Buu has regeneration, nigh infinite stamina and more techniques, Piccolo needs a considerable advantage to take the win.

Yeah, I guess you're right.
A Kaioken X3 SSJ2 Piccolo would do then.

[TheUltimateNinja]

SSGod Raditz vs Final Form Freeza

SSJ2 Vegeta (Saiyan Arc) vs 3rd Form Freeza

[dragonball0900]

SSGod Raditz vs Final Form Freeza

SSJ2 Vegeta (Saiyan Arc) vs 3rd Form Freeza

1. We don't know the multiplier of SSGod, but I will assume that Raditz wins if it's Early Final Form Frieza, if it's 50% Final Form Frieza, Raditz would be defeated easily.

2. I have Frieza winning, since I have his power doubling with each transformation. So 3rd Form Frieza would be 2,120,000, while Vegeta would be 1,800,000.

[TheUltimateNinja]

SSGod Raditz vs Final Form Freeza

SSJ2 Vegeta (Saiyan Arc) vs 3rd Form Freeza

1. We don't know the multiplier of SSGod, but I will assume that Raditz wins if it's Early Final Form Frieza, if it's 50% Final Form Frieza, Raditz would be defeated easily.

2. I have Frieza winning, since I have his power doubling with each transformation. So 3rd Form Frieza would be 2,120,000, while Vegeta would be 1,800,000.

SSGod is superior to SSJ3 Vegetto, it must have an absolutely massive multiplier.

[dragon boss z]

REALLY?!! That was obviously for comic relief! Simply getting slammed into a wall with great force is more likely to kill someone than a bullet, which did almost kill Mr. Satan in a serious moment.

Even still, getting thrown into concrete isn't impressive in dragon ball. Even BOS Yamcha knocked Goku through multiple stone pillars.

Muten Roshi mentioned her style resembling his Turtle Hermit style immediately after praising her skill level and her father is Gyumao... a former pupil of Muten Roshi.

That doesn't mean she went through the same training though. It just means she was taught by Ox King.

It's more of a matter technique than strength (though it definitely can count for both). Tao's pillar throwing feat is more visually more impressive than anything shown after it.

Even if you don't count that feat. He killed Blue with his tongue, and another man with just his finger. He can also shoot ki attacks, something Chappa and Chi chi can't.

Besides, Chi-Chi can jump very high like Jackie Chun could in that tournament... except more casually and can fight well while up in the air... something never even seen till the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai.

Jacki never had a problem with jumping high. You can't do it more casually than effortlessly. And just because they didn't fight in the air doesn't mean much. Nam and Goku jumped higher than Chi chi did.

That power completely shocked Yamcha, Krillin, and a much stronger Muten Roshi as well... are they also below 21st Budokai Jackie Chun?

Well everyone besides the stronger version of Roshi would still lose to max power 21st Roshi.

#18 can easily stop a blast that can only destroy the whole stadium.

Unless she can absorb energy, blocking it wouldn't do any good. If it blew up on impact the stadium would be destroyed, even if it does no damage to 18. She probably could deflect it, but if they start spamming that move like they said they were about to do, it wouldn't be that easy.

Claiming there facts are biased... for starters.

Maybe because they are facts? Is it bias to claim that Frieza is stronger than the farmer with a shot gun? No it's a fact.

This is opinion. One can argue Chappa's 8-arms technique and the fact he wasn't instantly beaten by a Goku that was world's above the one that beat Tao's ass are better feats.

Getting stomped by a holding back Goku isn't a feat. And making it look like you have 8 arms isn't that impressive. Even a regular human in real life can wave their hand fast enough to make it look like there is more than one.

Again, opinion and Chun also feared for his chances of winning the tournament after Goku revealed it was just toying with Chappa. Not to mention Chun and Yamcha thinking he might lose despite seeing him fight seriously on Baba Palace and knowing he'd get even stronger but are shocked to see Goku win easily.

Nope. He was only surprised that Goku slowed his fall buy just his breath. He never even said he was surprised in the slightest that Goku easily won.

Opinion... Chun's statement doesn't imply superiority to Tao at all and it wouldn't even make sense for him to hold Tao's power with such a high regard at a point of the story where his power isn't even relevant.

He couldn't even believe Goku beat the best assassin in the world. and Tao's power was still relavent. He was stronger than everyone in the 22nd budokai besides Goku, Roshi, and Tien.

[dragonball0900]

He couldn't even believe Goku beat the best assassin in the world. and Tao's power was still relavent. He was stronger than everyone in the 22nd budokai besides Goku, Roshi, and Tien.

Keep in mind that Krillin and Yamcha (and to an extent, Chiaotzu) would also be stronger than Tao, giving how Goku complimented Krillin, Goku said clearly that he was enjoying that match, and this Goku is way stronger than the Goku from 3 years ago, who was stronger than Tao. Obviously that means that Krillin, and Yamcha who is equal to him, is stronger than Tao.

As for the whole Chi Chi, Chappa and Tao situation, you already know what I am thinking. Although I don't overrate Chi Chi and I actually don't think she's King Piccolo level at all, not even at 22nd Budokai Goku level, but I would say that given how Roshi was amazed at her, she can be a bit below her and not that far away from him. Also considering how she did better against Goku than Chappa did, that clearly puts Chi Chi above Chappa.
Putting Chi Chi at 21st Budokai tier just seems a bit ridiculous if you ask me, especially given how many years she trained with Ox Satan, who has nearly the same methods as Roshi. And we know how much Goku, Krillin and Yamcha increased during their years training with Roshi. Not saying that Ox Satan's training would give the same boost, but a similar to it it's quite possible.
And I think I already explained my reasons in the past of why Tao is below Chappa.

[nickzambuto]

Invent the minimum powerup necessary for Boo arc Piccolo to defeat Boohan.

Ex. Golden Oozaru Piccolo with Kaioken x20 or some nonsensical thing like that. But the fun is determining the MINIMUM that's necessary, so don't go overboard.

Viewing my numbers, I have Buu arc Piccolo needing a Kaioken X20 Oozaru Piccolo (coincidentally with your example, except with the Golden). They would be nearly equals, but Piccolo would probably have the edge.
It can also be a Kaioken X2 SSJ2 Piccolo.
Kaioken X3 SSJ2 Piccolo would already defeat him easily.

Invent the minimum powerup necessary for Boo arc Piccolo to defeat Boohan.

Ex. Golden Oozaru Piccolo with Kaioken x20 or some nonsensical thing like that. But the fun is determining the MINIMUM that's necessary, so don't go overboard.

SSJ3 Piccolo wins easily.

Man, you guys really hold Piccolo's power in a high regard. I was thinking it would take much more.

[dragon boss z]

He couldn't even believe Goku beat the best assassin in the world. and Tao's power was still relavent. He was stronger than everyone in the 22nd budokai besides Goku, Roshi, and Tien.

Keep in mind that Krillin and Yamcha (and to an extent, Chiaotzu) would also be stronger than Tao, giving how Goku complimented Krillin, Goku said clearly that he was enjoying that match, and this Goku is way stronger than the Goku from 3 years ago, who was stronger than Tao. Obviously that means that Krillin, and Yamcha who is equal to him, is stronger than Tao.

As for the whole Chi Chi, Chappa and Tao situation, you already know what I am thinking. Although I don't overrate Chi Chi and I actually don't think she's King Piccolo level at all, not even at 22nd Budokai Goku level, but I would say that given how Roshi was amazed at her, she can be a bit below her and not that far away from him. Also considering how she did better against Goku than Chappa did, that clearly puts Chi Chi above Chappa.
Putting Chi Chi at 21st Budokai tier just seems a bit ridiculous if you ask me, especially given how many years she trained with Ox Satan, who has nearly the same methods as Roshi. And we know how much Goku, Krillin and Yamcha increased during their years training with Roshi. Not saying that Ox Satan's training would give the same boost, but a similar to it it's quite possible.
And I think I already explained my reasons in the past of why Tao is below Chappa.

Goku already made it clear that his tournament strength is below his actual fighting strength. (or is that a dub line that I'm remembering?) Either way Krillin is his friend and he was of course going easy on him.

And I do think Chi chi was above Chappa, but like I pointed out before I don't think Chappa is above Tao. But Chi chi being around Tao's level is definitely much more acceptable since Tao was taken out by a grenade, while King Piccolo is nuke level.

And I didn't say chi chi was only 21st budokai level. I said she was below 21st Roshi, who would still be a contender in the 22nd budokai imo. And his bulky form is superior to anyone in the 22nd imo. The only ones stronger than her at the 21st would be Roshi, and maybe Goku. She would beat all the others. I have her around maybe 22nd Yamcha or Krillin at best, who I think are slightly under Tao. Though like I said comparing her Tao is much more fare than comparing her to King Piccolo who is in another league than almost everyone until the BOZ.

[dragonball0900]

Goku already made it clear that his tournament strength is below his actual fighting strength. (or is that a dub line that I'm remembering?) Either way Krillin is his friend and he was of course going easy on him.

But still, this Goku is much stronger than the Goku from 3 years ago, and it's not really stated that his match level is below his level from 3 years ago, is it? Goku was having really fun with his match with Krillin. Goku even said he was very excited. To make a much stronger Goku than 3 years back feeling excited would really mean a lot.

Man, you guys really hold Piccolo's power in a high regard. I was thinking it would take much more.

Piccolo passed a year in the ROSAT training, he could've made the same gains Vegeta and Trunks had on their first trip. Goku also said that Piccolo's power was in a completely new level but it was still no use against Cell. Trunks was also surprised by his power.
Piccolo also managed to stand up and holding back against the Cell Jr. That doesn't put him near Trunks or Vegeta, but these are feats that Android 16 or Semi Perfect Cell wouldn't do. This Piccolo could easily be on par with ASSJ Vegeta, or possibly a bit more.
Then in the Buu saga, he trained for 7 years, but his gains were not as intensive as the saiyans, so he could've improved from being below Future Trunks, to being equal to his level of power, reaching closely to Vegeta and the Cell Jrs, but not surpassing them. Some people underrate him and put him still just below Semi Perfect Cell, other people overrate him and put him surpassing a Cell Jr, which I don't think that's really true, or overrate him putting him near Perfect Cell level which is obviously impossible. But I just keep his power on how it should be, no overrating him and no underrating him.

[nickzambuto]

I have to agree that Kuririn and Yamcha must have surpassed Taopaipai based off their performances against Goku and Tenshinhan respectively. Neither of the latter two were going all out, but that doesn't change the fact that Taopaipai would be like an insect to them. Goku already humiliated Tao utterly three years prior. He tanked his very best blows with scratches and predicted all of his moves. Even if Goku was holding back to such an extent that he showed no signs of improved strength after three years of training, even if he used, at minimum, equal power to the strength he had when he fought Tao, Kuririn still put up a better fight than Tao did. Yet we know Goku HAD to be exhibiting improved power because if it seemed like he hasn't improved at all, Roshi or someone else would have mentioned something. But instead, they were all in awe of Goku's improvements, even though they didn't know he was holding back. He had to have used more strength on Kuririn than he used on Tao.

[DBZAOTA482]

Even still, getting thrown into concrete isn't impressive in dragon ball. Even BOS Yamcha knocked Goku through multiple stone pillars.

The point is Chi-Chi won't die from bullets and those things definitely weren't stone pillars.

That doesn't mean she went through the same training though. It just means she was taught by Ox King.

It most certainly does when you consider how the Turtle School training is actually like. Korin was also able to tell Goku was taught in the Turtle Hermit style just from his movement.

Even if you don't count that feat. He killed Blue with his tongue, and another man with just his finger. He can also shoot ki attacks, something Chappa and Chi chi can't.

Which you can't prove that they can't...also these are all more of matter of technique than strength.

As far as we know, Yajirobe can't do ki blasts himself.

Jacki never had a problem with jumping high. You can't do it more casually than effortlessly. And just because they didn't fight in the air doesn't mean much. Nam and Goku jumped higher than Chi chi did.

Jackie never had problems but he wasn't shown doing it casually in that tournament and fighting up in the air definitely does mean something. It's waaayyyy harder to move around in the air than on ground and yet she was practically even hovering in the air while fighting. I also doubt Jackie Chun or Nam would be able to match Initial Weighted Goku's casual jumping height.

Well everyone besides the stronger version of Roshi would still lose to max power 21st Roshi.

This was in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai... a few chapters after the stronger version of Roshi said the new generation had surpassed him. Besides, we're not talking about max power Roshi (which he never uses in combat till Resurrection F).

Unless she can absorb energy, blocking it wouldn't do any good. If it blew up on impact the stadium would be destroyed, even if it does no damage to 18. She probably could deflect it, but if they start spamming that move like they said they were about to do, it wouldn't be that easy.

Deflecting it would require no effort on #18's part... she's several times more powerful than Pre-RoF Freeza, who can destroy planets with just one finger, and they never said anything about spamming ki blasts.

Maybe because they are facts? Is it bias to claim that Frieza is stronger than the farmer with a shot gun? No it's a fact.

No, Freeza is stronger than the farmer is so blatantly obvious that it's fucking stupid to make the comparison. This one is just not totally clear.

Getting stomped by a holding back Goku isn't a feat. And making it look like you have 8 arms isn't that impressive. Even a regular human in real life can wave their hand fast enough to make it look like there is more than one.

Again. The Goku that Chappa fought is way stronger than when he beat Tao so he would stomp him just as easily if not more... in fact, he pretty much did just that once he went all out against him 3 years ago and can you give me example of a human moving so fast that he gives the illusion of having 8 arms in a fight? If it was really that unimpressed then Goku would've never used against Tien.

Nope. He was only surprised that Goku slowed his fall buy just his breath. He never even said he was surprised in the slightest that Goku easily won.

Except Jackie Chun was shown in shock when Goku knocked Chappa out of the ring not when he did that mouth blast and even if he didn't expression surprise on how easily Goku won, he still feared for his chances of winning the tournament when Goku confirmed he wasn't really trying against Chappa.

He couldn't even believe Goku beat the best assassin in the world. and Tao's power was still relavent. He was stronger than everyone in the 22nd budokai besides Goku, Roshi, and Tien.

But Chun also threw out there he was Tsuru's younger brother like it's important detail... implying he more likely feared the wrath of the Crane School (if he just threw in that piece of trivia for the sake of it then it's bad writing) and you're wrong about Tao's power being relevant. Krillin able to put up a good fight against the Goku that was far more powerful than the one that whooped Tao's ass 3 years ago... till he got serious, Yamcha was trading blows with Tien who was at the time comparable to that same Goku, and Crane Master was outright stated to be more powerful than Tao by Tien. Chiaotzu was also close to Krillin's power despite his lack of talent outside bukujutsu and telekinesis.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Goku already made it clear that his tournament strength is below his actual fighting strength. (or is that a dub line that I'm remembering?) Either way Krillin is his friend and he was of course going easy on him.

But still, this Goku is much stronger than the Goku from 3 years ago, and it's not really stated that his match level is below his level from 3 years ago, is it? Goku was having really fun with his match with Krillin. Goku even said he was very excited. To make a much stronger Goku than 3 years back feeling excited would really mean a lot.

If you look at the context it's pretty clear that Kuririn is stronger than Tao. Before the match starts Kuririn thinks to himself that he's trained hard and he can win, he saw Goku's power back in the Uranai Baba Arc so he must at least be at that level.

Also, when Goku finishes Kuririn off, Tsuru Sennin says he really may good enough to beat Tao, keep in mind that Tsuru's extremely biased towards Tao so if he thinks the level Goku used against Kuririn could beat Tao then it definitely could, and Roshi says compared to Goku his position may be about to vanish, showing that the level Goku used against Kuririn is above even Roshi.

Considering how easily he wrecked Tao 3 years ago, the fact that he had to use his full match level power to beat Kuririn at the tournament shows that Kuririn is definitely stronger than Tao.

[dragonball0900]

Goku already made it clear that his tournament strength is below his actual fighting strength. (or is that a dub line that I'm remembering?) Either way Krillin is his friend and he was of course going easy on him.

But still, this Goku is much stronger than the Goku from 3 years ago, and it's not really stated that his match level is below his level from 3 years ago, is it? Goku was having really fun with his match with Krillin. Goku even said he was very excited. To make a much stronger Goku than 3 years back feeling excited would really mean a lot.

If you look at the context it's pretty clear that Kuririn is stronger than Tao. Before the match starts Kuririn thinks to himself that he's trained hard and he can win, he saw Goku's power back in the Uranai Baba Arc so he must at least be at that level.

Also, when Goku finishes Kuririn off, Tsuru Sennin says he really may good enough to beat Tao, keep in mind that Tsuru's extremely biased towards Tao so if he thinks the level Goku used against Kuririn could beat Tao then it definitely could, and Roshi says compared to Goku his position may be about to vanish, showing that the level Goku used against Kuririn is above even Roshi.

Considering how easily he wrecked Tao 3 years ago, the fact that he had to use his full match level power to beat Kuririn at the tournament shows that Kuririn is definitely stronger than Tao.

Yeah, I agree with this too. Yamcha and Krillin both were confident that they might have a chance on beating Goku, so both should have getting to a level that has to be above Tao. There's more evidence for Krillin and Yamcha (don't know about Chiaotzu but it's possible) to be above Tao, as well as how the fights between them against Goku and Tien went.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Buu Arc SSJ Goku vs Full Power Perfect Cell

[dragonball0900]

Buu Arc SSJ Goku vs Full Power Perfect Cell

I'd say Perfect Cell wins but after a long fight. The reason I say this is because it was said by Piccolo, when he was watching Majin Vegeta vs Majin Buu, that the gap between Cell Games Gohan and Buu Saga Goku/Majin Vegeta wasn't that big, while Full Power Perfect Cell was clearly above Cell Games Gohan. I don't really think the saiyans as SSJ1's surpassed Perfect Cell yet. Goku, however, being the strongest, could be pretty much on par with Cell.
I could be wrong here though, but it's just my opinion for now.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Buu Arc SSJ Goku vs Full Power Perfect Cell

I'd say Perfect Cell wins but after a long fight. The reason I say this is because it was said by Piccolo, when he was watching Majin Vegeta vs Majin Buu, that the gap between Cell Games Gohan and Buu Saga Goku/Majin Vegeta wasn't that big, while Full Power Perfect Cell was clearly above Cell Games Gohan. I don't really think the saiyans as SSJ1's surpassed Perfect Cell yet. Goku, however, being the strongest, could be pretty much on par with Cell.
I could be wrong here though, but it's just my opinion for now.

I see.

Then how about Buu Arc Piccolo vs a Cell Jr.?

[apex_pretador]

Zeno vs. Franklin Richards?

Both are little kids with powerful reality warping powers. Who wins?

Most likely Zeno because of better sheer raw power feats.

Who's the strongest character in Z: Venomous Lavenda could beat?

Super vegetto if he is playing around. If the opponent is trying to kill, then maybe SS3 goku or gotenks because poison's effects would be magnified.

So you think rusty Gohan that had trained only a couple of times had surpassed Super Vegetto?

1. I never said Gohan surpassed vegetto.
2. Gohan has been training since RoF.

Lavender is around mr buu tier, and that's it. The only reason he can "probably" beat super vegetto is due to his poison.

Who is the strongest character Boo arc Piccolo could defeat with a finger flick?

Base goten.

Ultimate Gohan can use KK up to X10 and runs 2 Vegetto gauntlets one after the other. The first is vs Manga Vegetto from Base to SS3, the second is anime Vegetto from Base to SS3, how does he fare?

Stops at Super Vegetto with or without kaioken in both cases.

Invent the minimum powerup necessary for Boo arc Piccolo to defeat Boohan.

Ex. Golden Oozaru Piccolo with Kaioken x20 or some nonsensical thing like that. But the fun is determining the MINIMUM that's necessary, so don't go overboard.

Fuse him with king piccolo and give him kaioken x40 or fuse him with lord slug and give him kaioken x30

Buu Arc SSJ Goku vs Full Power Perfect Cell

Can go either way

[dragonball0900]

Then how about Buu Arc Piccolo vs a Cell Jr.?

I have Piccolo still below the Cell Jr, since I think that Piccolo was only able to stand up against them back in the Cell Games, but was not really that close in power to them like Trunks and Vegeta were. I'd think that Buu arc Piccolo would be equal to Cell Games Trunks level (just a note, in a battle between those two, I have Buu arc Piccolo winning because he has more experience). There's also the wide gap between Supreme Kai and Piccolo that would indicate that Piccolo can still be below a Cell Jr.

But a battle against the Cell Jr would be really tough and long. I'd still give Cell Jr the edge since they have a lot of techniques, and this version of Piccolo would do just as much as how Vegeta and Trunks did against them 7 years back, although some chances are that Piccolo would think of a tactic and defeat the Cell Jr that way, but the Cell Jr has regeneration and the techniques that would give them more edge.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Then how about Buu Arc Piccolo vs a Cell Jr.?

I have Piccolo still below the Cell Jr, since I think that Piccolo was only able to stand up against them back in the Cell Games, but was not really that close in power to them like Trunks and Vegeta were. I'd think that Buu arc Piccolo would be equal to Cell Games Trunks level (just a note, in a battle between those two, I have Buu arc Piccolo winning because he has more experience). There's also the wide gap between Supreme Kai and Piccolo that would indicate that Piccolo can still be below a Cell Jr.

But a battle against the Cell Jr would be really tough and long. I'd still give Cell Jr the edge since they have a lot of techniques, and this version of Piccolo would do just as much as how Vegeta and Trunks did against them 7 years back, although some chances are that Piccolo would think of a tactic and defeat the Cell Jr that way, but the Cell Jr has regeneration and the techniques that would give them more edge.

Alright, how about:
Piccolo (Post RoSAT) vs FPSSJ Goku (Less than half)

Warm up Cell vs FPSSJ Goku (Less than half)

Grade 3 Trunks (No speed loss) vs FPSSJ Goku (50%)