Why didn't Ultimate Gohan turn Super Saiyajin?

[Saturnine]

I think it would be better to say that the potential unlock replaces SSj3, as SSj3 was said in the manga to unlock all the dormant power of a Saiyan.

Even if it's equal in power to the SSj3 boost, that would still make Gohan more powerful than Goku, as he was able to swing the Z-sword much faster after the end of his training. He would be around SSj3 Goku at SSj2 by that point. Put another 4x on top of that and there you have it.

[Desassina]

I thought about one thing, which is to train his Ultimate state so that its boost is still the highest, or else his Super Saiyan form will surpass it. If I had to describe it with a formula, then:

Power Up = Max ( SSJ * Base Power, Ultimate ) / Base Power

... which means that Super Saiyan is the power up when his base power is multiplied by it and above Ultimate. Otherwise, his base power times the power up is equal to Ultimate, whatever the amount.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I think it would be better to say that the potential unlock replaces SSj3, as SSj3 was said in the manga to unlock all the dormant power of a Saiyan.

Even if it's equal in power to the SSj3 boost, that would still make Gohan more powerful than Goku, as he was able to swing the Z-sword much faster after the end of his training. He would be around SSj3 Goku at SSj2 by that point. Put another 4x on top of that and there you have it.

The manga says nothing of the sort. And there's nothing to imply Gohan is that much stronger than Goku, Goku was able to lift the Z sword and swing it as well, he just didn't do it as easily as Gohan since he didn't have nearly as much practice. Also, when they say that practicing with the sword must have made Gohan much stronger, Rou Kaioshin says they're wrong.

I always thought that Gohan's ultimate state had the power of his SSJ2 transformation brought to its limits. Kinda like mastering SSJ and using everything without changing form. He's roughly above a SSJ3 depending on how strong he is.

With:

Power = Strength * Agility / Energy

[spoiler].Super Saiyan 2 - Power: 100 | Strength: 20 | Agility: 20 | Energy: 4
.Super Saiyan 3 - Power: 400 | Strength: 80 | Agility: 80 | Energy: 16
Ultimate Gohan - Power: 400 | Strength: 20 | Agility: 20 | Energy: 1[/spoiler]

Ultimate Gohan is far above SSJ3 Goku, he was able to overpower Super Buu who could effortlessly defeat SSJ3 Goku. Since his base is weaker than Goku's his Ultimate boost must be much greater, probably 2,000x instead of 400x.

[Desassina]

You shouldn't be that hasty. I deleted my post and made another well after it and still before your own. Reconsider next time.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I thought about one thing, which is to train his Ultimate state so that its boost is still the highest, or else his Super Saiyan form will surpass it. If I had to describe it with a formula, then:

Power Up = Max ( SSJ * Base Power, Ultimate ) / Base Power

... which means that Super Saiyan is the power up when his base power is multiplied by it and above Ultimate. Otherwise, his base power times the power up is equal to Ultimate, whatever the amount.

This sounds about right. This would explain why his base was higher than Piccolo in F.

[Saturnine]

I thought practicing with the Z sword precisely meant Gohan got much stronger, so please show me the panel where that is debunked.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I thought practicing with the Z sword precisely meant Gohan got much stronger, so please show me the panel where that is debunked.

[Saturnine]

That only says the workout wasn't the point (because it's his abilities that were the point), not that it didn't make Gohan any stronger

[TheUltimateNinja]

That only says the workout wasn't the point (because it's his abilities that were the point), not that it didn't make Gohan any stronger

All he did was swing a sword around for a couple of hours, I really doubt that his power increased all that much. Plus in the original Japanese Gohan talks about his arm strength specifically, not his power in general.

[Saturnine]

That only says the workout wasn't the point (because it's his abilities that were the point), not that it didn't make Gohan any stronger

All he did was swing a sword around for a couple of hours, I really doubt that his power increased all that much. Plus in the original Japanese Gohan talks about his arm strength specifically, not his power in general.

Yeah, but keep in mind that initially the sword felt so heavy to him that he could barely hold it up, and he needed Super Saiyan to even swing it around. If being able to master the sword like he did isn't evidence of a huge power increase, then I don't know what is.

[TheUltimateNinja]

That only says the workout wasn't the point (because it's his abilities that were the point), not that it didn't make Gohan any stronger

All he did was swing a sword around for a couple of hours, I really doubt that his power increased all that much. Plus in the original Japanese Gohan talks about his arm strength specifically, not his power in general.

Yeah, but keep in mind that initially the sword felt so heavy to him that he could barely hold it up, and he needed Super Saiyan to even swing it around. If being able to master the sword like he did isn't evidence of a huge power increase, then I don't know what is.

It's kind of like lifting weights in real life, just by practicing you can get better even if your actual strength doesn't increase that much.

[Saturnine]

I still think it did in fact.

Goku could swing the sword quite comfortably right off the bat before any prior contact with it. He was stronger than Gohan, that's why.

Later Gohan got stronger, and he could swing the sword even faster. Really, there's no reason to overcomplicate Dragon Ball.

[NitroEX]

All he did was swing a sword around for a couple of hours, I really doubt that his power increased all that much. Plus in the original Japanese Gohan talks about his arm strength specifically, not his power in general.

Yeah, but keep in mind that initially the sword felt so heavy to him that he could barely hold it up, and he needed Super Saiyan to even swing it around. If being able to master the sword like he did isn't evidence of a huge power increase, then I don't know what is.

It's kind of like lifting weights in real life, just by practicing you can get better even if your actual strength doesn't increase that much.

I think you're reaching here. The manga page only serves to illustrate that despite the training, Gohan still wasn't on Boo's level. There's no evidence to suggest anything other than that. If that was the case, Toriyama would have made it explicitly clear in the dialogue.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Yeah, but keep in mind that initially the sword felt so heavy to him that he could barely hold it up, and he needed Super Saiyan to even swing it around. If being able to master the sword like he did isn't evidence of a huge power increase, then I don't know what is.

It's kind of like lifting weights in real life, just by practicing you can get better even if your actual strength doesn't increase that much.

I think you're reaching here. The manga page only serves to illustrate that despite the training, Gohan still wasn't on Boo's level. There's no evidence to suggest anything other than that. If that was the case, Toriyama would have made it explicitly clear in the dialogue.

I really doubt Gohan multiplied his power just by swinging a sword around for a while, especially since he just says his arm strength increased a lot.