The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[dragon boss z]

Who's the strongest character Bergamo with and without his growing abillity can defeat?

Hard to say considering we really have no idea hos strong base Goku is. But I think base Bergamo is probably weaker than powered up Basil, so I would think he would lose to Buu. So I'm going to guess around super perfect Cell is his limit.

[pacz360]

Piccolo was definitely nerfed to below namek Frieza in that arc. Tagoma ain't anything special.

Proof? It was never started piccolo gotten weaker in that arc whatsoever so don't give me any bs crap about him being beat by a Zarbon tier fighter.

In the arc before Beerus makes it seem like the base saiyans are below Frieza. Gohan has lost his ability to reliably turn super saiyan, so I assume all his mystic power are gone as well(even after training his still can't access it fully.). He would therefore have to be weaker than base Goku in battle of Gods, who is weaker than Frieza. 18 was also kept out of the fight despite being stronger than most of the people there(18 power level never drops, so we assume she wasn't nerfed). 18 probably would have handled Togoma. Piccolo also can barely fight the soldiers,even an out of shape base Gohan does better. Hell Gohan himself most be weak as crap as well. How can he barely go SSJ. He must be weaker than Goten by a lot. If Rof was taken out super, everything makes a lot more sense.

No she wouldn't tagoma was beating piccolo who post rosat was around assended ssj level so no she gets stomped
Gohan was still powerful enough to be sense by goku all across the galaxy.
Stomp with this nerfing nonsense only one person that gotten weaker was gohan and still strong enough for goku to get his ki signature.

[pacz360]

Ya, but the thing is Toei forgot how strong Piccolo was. Later in the U6 arc Piccolo did even better against final form Frost than he did against Tagoma, and even first form Frost should be stronger than Tagoma.



Piccolo wasn't supposed to be weaker, Toei just forgot how strong he was. Same reason in RoF they had Frieza say he wold reach a power level of 1.3 million. Not to mention Piccolo had trouble with Shisami in the movie, who was confirmed to be Zarbon level and they never stated he trained. Toei doesn't do their research. They even had Beerus say that current ssj Goku was barely above namek Frieza. Toei has no idea what they are doing when it comes to power scaling.

But lets say they knew Piccolo was stronger than 100% Frieza and they wanted Tagoma stronger than him anywyas. That puts Tagoma at semi perfect to perfect Cell level.

that 1.3 mil crap was only in the movie not in the tv version
Show me beerus saiying current ssj goku was barely above freeza cause I'm pretty sure that shit was taken outta of context just like numerous of things in this series
Shisami was confirmed to be Zarbon tier at the start of the movie never on earth.

The movie version was made by the same people, and they actually put more time and effort into the movie version.
In King Kai's planet after going ssj in the sub Beerus said Frieza is about the best you could do. In the dub he says you must of had a hard fight, implying he was barely better. Either way it doesn't make the most sense.
And as for Shisami's power, if he wasn't stated to have trained, there is no reason to think he got stronger, or at least not too much stronger. If he got stronger they most likely would of stated something like they did with Tagoma. It's pretty clear Toei just doesn't know what they are doing. I obviously want the show to make sense too, but Toei isn't trying, and that is clear.

The movie version was more less retcon in tv series so no point trying to use it
Beerus was only familar with freeza he was never aware of guys like cell and the androids.

[pacz360]

Who's the strongest character Bergamo with and without his growing abillity can defeat?

Hard to tell with the growing ability but without it he's stronger than ssj3 gotenks given he was trading blows with base goku.

[Zamasu55]

I've seen people say Tagoma is stronger than Buu, lol. And tbh I think the reason Tagoma stomped Piccolo so bad was because Toei just forgot how strong Piccolo was. They probably didn't even realize they made Tagoma stronger than namek Frieza. But taking the stomping Piccolo feat seriously I would say that puts Tagoma at perfect Cell level, and I think base Basil is around perfect Cell to ssj Buu saga level so I do think Basil would win.

Tagoma stomped Piccolo because he was much stronger than him.

Piccolo was definitely nerfed to below namek Frieza in that arc. Tagoma ain't anything special.

Weak excuse.

[Beyond]

Tagoma stomped Piccolo because he was much stronger than him.

Piccolo was definitely nerfed to below namek Frieza in that arc. Tagoma ain't anything special.

Weak excuse.

Do you think Togoma could beat 18? She'd punch his lights out.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Piccolo was definitely nerfed to below namek Frieza in that arc. Tagoma ain't anything special.

Weak excuse.

Do you think Togoma could beat 18? She'd punch his lights out.

Tagoma survived a hit from Gotenks, that's a pretty top tier feat.

[Beyond]

Weak excuse.

Do you think Togoma could beat 18? She'd punch his lights out.

Tagoma survived a hit from Gotenks, that's a pretty top tier feat.

While that does complicate things, the scene felt pretty gagy. If Gotenks had attacked seriously he would have one shot him, which doesn't prove anything since he could do that to 18 and Piccolo too. If they didn't go so overboard with nerfing Gohan I'd be more readily able to accept Tagoma being tough.

[pacz360]

Weak excuse.

Do you think Togoma could beat 18? She'd punch his lights out.

Tagoma survived a hit from Gotenks, that's a pretty top tier feat.

He stomped a version of piccolo that would knock her out.

[dragon boss z]

The movie version was more less retcon in tv series so no point trying to use it
Beerus was only familar with freeza he was never aware of guys like cell and the androids.

There is no real canon and if you consider the original manga the definitive canon, then the movies are actually more canon than super since Super has filler and is a continuation of Kai. Imo the movies, the super anime, and the super manga are all on the same level of canon.

And yes I know Beerus was only familiar with Frieza, but he didn't act like ssj was leagues above Frieza.

But either way, it's pretty clear Piccolo got nerfed for the RoF arc. If Tagoma could reach perfect Cell level from being beaten up for 4 months, that would make his potential multiple times higher than a ssj... Not even base saiyans, literally multiple times better than a ssj. It took Goku and Vegeta 3 years of training for the androids, and a whole year in the ROSAT, which is specially made for increased training, and they still couldn't pass perfect Cell. Vegeta even went into the chamber twice and was still no match for perfect Cell. And how easily Tagoma stomped Piccolo at least puts Tagoma close to perfect Cell. So for Tagoma to go from Zarbon level to close to perfect Cell level in 4 months of just being beaten up makes absolutely no sense. Not to mention if a Frieza soldier could get that strong, there would of been plenty of soldiers who passed at least first form Frieza. But there was a reason nobody was even close to first form Frieza. It was because they couldn't.

[dragon boss z]

Weak excuse.

Do you think Togoma could beat 18? She'd punch his lights out.

Tagoma survived a hit from Gotenks, that's a pretty top tier feat.

I don't see how casually getting put down in one hit proves anything. skinny form Roshi surived a hit from Tagoma/Ginyu that knocked Piccolo out of the fight. How do you make sense of that? lol. Really, everyone needs to realize Toei is crap at power scaling and doesn't care. We all like dragon ball and want it to make sense, but we all know Super makes no sense.

[Zamasu55]

Piccolo was definitely nerfed to below namek Frieza in that arc. Tagoma ain't anything special.

Weak excuse.

Do you think Togoma could beat 18? She'd punch his lights out.

Yeah, sure.

[pacz360]

The movie version was more less retcon in tv series so no point trying to use it
Beerus was only familar with freeza he was never aware of guys like cell and the androids.

There is no real canon and if you consider the original manga the definitive canon, then the movies are actually more canon than super since Super has filler and is a continuation of Kai. Imo the movies, the super anime, and the super manga are all on the same level of canon.

And yes I know Beerus was only familiar with Frieza, but he didn't act like ssj was leagues above Frieza.

But either way, it's pretty clear Piccolo got nerfed for the RoF arc. If Tagoma could reach perfect Cell level from being beaten up for 4 months, that would make his potential multiple times higher than a ssj... Not even base saiyans, literally multiple times better than a ssj. It took Goku and Vegeta 3 years of training for the androids, and a whole year in the ROSAT, which is specially made for increased training, and they still couldn't pass perfect Cell. Vegeta even went into the chamber twice and was still no match for perfect Cell. And how easily Tagoma stomped Piccolo at least puts Tagoma close to perfect Cell. So for Tagoma to go from Zarbon level to close to perfect Cell level in 4 months of just being beaten up makes absolutely no sense. Not to mention if a Frieza soldier could get that strong, there would of been plenty of soldiers who passed at least first form Frieza. But there was a reason nobody was even close to first form Frieza. It was because they couldn't.

So what piccolo wasn't nerfed cause there's no proof of it in universe or out of universe whatsoever considering Akira said piccolo keeps training.
And Tacoma spend those four months training with freeza so it's not unbound that he could get stronger
Is it stupid? sure but this is dragon ball characters getting stronger via bs isn't something unknown in this series.

[dragon boss z]

So what piccolo wasn't nerfed cause there's no proof of it in universe or out of universe whatsoever considering Akira said piccolo keeps training.
And Tacoma spend those four months training with freeza so it's not unbound that he could get stronger
Is it stupid? sure but this is dragon ball characters getting stronger via bs isn't something unknown in this series.

But if Tagoma really did reach perfect Cell level, or especially mystic gohan level like some people say, that's the biggest jump of all time. It's even bigger than Frieza's if you don't count Frieza's new transformation.

And Toriyama didn't write the part where Tagoma stomps Piccolo, so his quotes don't mean much. Not to mention he forgets a lot of things anyways.

[dragonball0900]

Yeah, Ultimate Gohan level is ridiculous since that is really too big, and SSJ1 ROF Gohan is supposed to be weaker than his Ultimate form in the Buu Arc.

Although I wouldn't mind if he is high SSJ2 tier. Of course, I'm not an expert in Super, so I could be wrong.

[Gog]

"Beaten and humiliated, time and time again. I will have my vengeance against all those who humiliated me!" Ginyu vowed, Ginyu roared into the night, a golden glow overtook him.
[spoiler][/spoiler]
"S-such power, with this and the Kaio Ken technique I can beat anyone"



Super Saiyan Kaio Ken Ginyu Runs the Ultimate Gauntlet of Buu Saga Power.

SSJ Ginyu KKx23 V Base Form Goku and Base Form Vegeta

SSJ Ginyu KKx2000 V Majin Vegeta SS2

SSJ Ginyu KKx2500 V Fat Buu

SSJ Ginyu KKx5000 V Super Saiyan 3 Goku

SSJ Ginyu KKx10000 V Super Buu

SSJ Ginyu KKx15000 V Ultimate Gohan

SSJ Ginyu KKx25000 V Buuhan

SSJ Ginyu KKx50000 V SSJ Vegetto

Special round.

SSJ Ginyu KKx500000 V SS5 Froku

[DBZAOTA482]

The wolfman must not of thought blowing up the moon was that impressive because he thought he could beat Roshi. Dragon ball never made much sense.

If you want to finish our debate on Tao vs Chappa, i'll do a CAV with you on comic vine.

Manwolf was so obsessed with getting revenge that he tried to kill him with a knife. It's obvious he didn't care Jackie Chun's strength.

And not interested... besides, I'd the type who'd rather settle business right here right now.

[dragon boss z]

Manwolf was so obsessed with getting revenge that he tried to kill him with a knife. It's obvious he didn't care Jackie Chun's strength.

And not interested... besides, I'd the type who'd rather settle business right here right now.

Tao's knife worked on Tien, and his sword almost got Goku. It's not like its a crazy idea for manwolf to try and use a knife. The problem wasn't the knife, it was manwolf was way too weak.

And we already went through all their is to debate and we are taking up too many pages here. I just thought it would be interesting if we did an all or nothing where others judged our argument.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Manwolf was so obsessed with getting revenge that he tried to kill him with a knife. It's obvious he didn't care Jackie Chun's strength.

And not interested... besides, I'd the type who'd rather settle business right here right now.

Tao's knife worked on Tien, and his sword almost got Goku. It's not like its a crazy idea for manwolf to try and use a knife. The problem wasn't the knife, it was manwolf was way too weak.

And we already went through all their is to debate and we are taking up too many pages here. I just thought it would be interesting if we did an all or nothing where others judged our argument.

There are lots of people on CV who actually think SSJ3 Goku is stronger than Gotenks and Gohan, hardly the best judges.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Super Saiyan Kaio Ken Ginyu Runs the Ultimate Gauntlet of Buu Saga Power.

SSJ Ginyu KKx23 V Base Form Goku and Base Form Vegeta

Goku easily oneshots him, Vegeta gets destroyed.

SSJ Ginyu KKx2000 V Majin Vegeta SS2

Ginyu has the advantage, but Vegeta can make it a draw by blowing himself up.

SSJ Ginyu KKx2500 V Fat Buu

Buu wins.

SSJ Ginyu KKx5000 V Super Saiyan 3 Goku

Goku wins fairly easily.

SSJ Ginyu KKx10000 V Super Buu

Buu oneshots him.

SSJ Ginyu KKx15000 V Ultimate Gohan

Ultimate Gohan crushes him easily.

SSJ Ginyu KKx25000 V Buuhan

Ginyu doesn't stand a chance.

SSJ Ginyu KKx50000 V SSJ Vegetto

Vegetto stomps.