Unpopular DB opinions

[SierraLarson]

I like GT more than Dragon Ball.

Characters are the most important part of a show for me, and Dragon Ball has none of my favorites (except adult Chi Chi, but that's the last season). Meanwhile, GT not only has all of them, but they're older, and I love older characters more than kids.

I just wish GT had more filler episodes. I wish it was all filler. Give me the family moments.

Super's been doing a decent job at it, and I've been loving them, but GT treated the characters better (especially Goku. I mean, he was turned into an actual kid and still was more mature than Super Goku.)

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

There's actually far more retarded decision making in that part, and somehow everyone ends up going along with Vegeta.
When Vegeta first suggests the Genki Dama, Goku says that his plan sucks and there's no way that taking some energy from Earth's inhabitants would allow him to beat Buu. Vegeta says he just has to take a lot of energy then. At this point Kaio butts in and says he can connect them to the whole universe if they want, but Vegeta insists that the Earth alone will be enough and that there's no need to overdo it, and at this point Goku somehow completely reverses his position and says Vegeta is a hero and goes along with the plan.

Huh... I hadn't thought of that but you're right, that whole part is even more supremely moronic.

Yeah, I've been questioning that segment for years at how the Spirit Bomb seemed extremely unnecessary and required a lot more work than needed, not to mention somehow Buu did not at all notice or sense the energy building up. Then I was always thinking, why not or what if Buu just used Instant Transmission right after they threw it to dodge it and teleport himself right behind Goku. Then what? I get they wanted to show Vegeta finally being genuinely altruistic again but I just never liked the concept of the Spirit Bomb after the Saiyan arc. It just goes against Goku's personality character and takes way too long with too much to lose, to be used as a last resort. Using the genki to just boost himself up when out of ki (as with the Android 13 movie & Budokai 3) just seemed to always make more logical sense, or to use it as a throwing attack (as in the Saiyan arc) or even yes a Rasengan would be more practical.

Plus, Goku flat out says "I'm going to end this quickly so Majin Boo won't hatch!" so the tried and true "He wants to enjoy the fight!" excuse doesn't work at the beginning of the battle when he wants to go the pragmatic way for once.

Which is why I go with Toriyama didn't think ahead. When he was writing these scenes, Goku was trying to win as quick as he could. He created Super Saiyan 3 so he could justify fighting Buu, but he created a few inconsistencies.

That's precisely why I don't like SS3 existing the way it does, it just creates a whole bunch of problems when you try to factor it into earlier events. Toriyama could've just kept SS2 his maximum and had him lose his time on Earth by having a long, extremely tiring fight with Fat Boo where he's barely holding on for dear life.

The thing I don't get there is, if Goku just needed to stall Buu, why would Toriyama need to have a SS3 at that point at all? Its been shown right before that fight that SS2 was enough to at least keep Buu busy even if he couldn't damage him. Goku could have simply fought him at SS2, got fatigued and then left as Buu didn't care about exact strength he just wanted to fight anyone. Come to think of it, SS3 wasn't needed at all in the arc as they mostly fought as SS1 or SS2 anyway. You also wouldn't have that ridiculous stalling fight with Vegeta & Kid Buu. The most unnecessary fight in the series.

SSJ3 is the worst transformation ever conceived.

Aside from SS4, the Super Saiyan transformations in general suck.

I still have a soft spot for the original Super Saiyan form and Super Saiyan Blue.

I will still stand by that SS4 should have been the final form. For the sake of Super, give it God ki aura and you'd have Goku a contemporary SS4 Gogeta, then hypothetically Super could still happen if it was God tier. You'd also have that "Monkey God" character this series could have used to perfectly wrap itself up with. No need for SSG and SSGB and considering their horrible track record, inconsistent power scale, nonexistent benefits over SS, nonsensical origin and lore, and the floating lack of explanation to how the changes to the character's body make any sense, let alone how it is correlated to the lame ritual. I mean SS3 may have clearly been a lack of creativity there and aesthetically unappealing at its worst, I absolutely hate Super Saiyan God.

[Cipher]

I wish we hadn't gotten the modern story revival.

[ABED]

I wish we hadn't gotten the modern story revival.

Agreed. Although I like Battle of Gods quite a bit, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not in favor of revivals. The X-Files, Gilmore Girls, and DB revivals have not been up to snuff. You can't recapture lightning in a bottle.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

I wish we hadn't gotten the modern story revival.

Agreed. Although I like Battle of Gods quite a bit, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not in favor of revivals. The X-Files, Gilmore Girls, and DB revivals have not been up to snuff. You can't recapture lightning in a bottle.

Samurai Jack's doing pretty good so far.

[ABED]

I wish we hadn't gotten the modern story revival.

Agreed. Although I like Battle of Gods quite a bit, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not in favor of revivals. The X-Files, Gilmore Girls, and DB revivals have not been up to snuff. You can't recapture lightning in a bottle.

Samurai Jack's doing pretty good so far.

I haven't seen it, so I'll just say that it's very difficult to recapture lightning in a bottle.

Add Arrested Development to the list of questionable revivals.

[rereboy]

Sure, a revival might suck, but there's no point being against the attempt instead of just waiting and see how it is and ignoring it if it does indeed suck. Even when we aren't interested in checking it out, there's no point in being against the attempt since others might be interested.

[ABED]

Sure, a revival might suck, but there's no point being against the attempt instead of just waiting and see how it is and ignoring it if it does indeed suck. Even when we aren't interested in checking it out, there's no point in being against the attempt since others might be interested.

I get your point, but I disagree. There are always people that want more, but stories deserve an ending. There are cases when it works, like Veronica Mars, but I think a big reason that worked is because the show didn't end on its terms. It was cancelled before it was given a proper ending.

[rereboy]

Sure, a revival might suck, but there's no point being against the attempt instead of just waiting and see how it is and ignoring it if it does indeed suck. Even when we aren't interested in checking it out, there's no point in being against the attempt since others might be interested.

I get your point, but I disagree. There are always people that want more, but stories deserve an ending. There are cases when it works, like Veronica Mars, but I think a big reason that worked is because the show didn't end on its terms. It was cancelled before it was given a proper ending.

In practical terms, what you are saying is that, even though you could just ignore the new stuff, you would rather that the people who might enjoy the revivals not even get the chance to.

Personally, I don't get what is so bothersome about ignoring the new stuff if we want to ignore it. And by ignoring it we already are putting an end to the franchise from our perspective, so the "needing and end" argument doesn't make sense to me.

[ABED]

Sure, a revival might suck, but there's no point being against the attempt instead of just waiting and see how it is and ignoring it if it does indeed suck. Even when we aren't interested in checking it out, there's no point in being against the attempt since others might be interested.

I get your point, but I disagree. There are always people that want more, but stories deserve an ending. There are cases when it works, like Veronica Mars, but I think a big reason that worked is because the show didn't end on its terms. It was cancelled before it was given a proper ending.

In practical terms, what you are saying is that, even though you could just ignore the new stuff, you would rather that the people who might enjoy the revivals not even get the chance to.

Personally, I don't get what is so bothersome about ignoring the new stuff if we want to ignore it. And by ignoring it we already are putting an end to the franchise from our perspective, so the "needing and end" argument doesn't make sense to me.

I can ignore every Terminator movie after T2, doesn't mean that it's not still there. There will always be people that want to see something they enjoy continue but should stories keep going past a logical conclusion just because someone might like them? A proper ending helps give a story its meaning. Ignoring it doesn't put an end to the franchise from our perspective. It just means we aren't looking at subsequent material.

Stories need endings or else it feels incomplete and this franchise has jumped the shark long ago. Besides, you can't miss what was never there.

[DBZAOTA482]

not a sacrifice, because Goku had no knowledge of there being a bad consequence. A sacrifice requires the person involved to have some idea of what their action's outcome.

At first, no... but he isn't doing anything to fix it. In fact, he openly welcomes the challenge despite the fact it involves trillions dying which is why I consider it a sacrifice.

Which doesn't go against what I said.

It does because you're basically implying Goku doesn't value life when he clearly does.

Ah, so you're all for Goku reminding Zeno then? Since, only a non-Warrior pussy would take the cowards way out and try to stop this deadly tournament from happening. Also, what does taking the 'cowards' way out (Trying to avoid risking lives is the cowards way out now?) even add? That doesn't change that they were actively and knowingly risking the lives of the entire planet for the sake of a good fight.

No... Goku was warned by his superiors not to associate himself with Zeno but he ignored them (which by itself I don't mind that much) while the only person opposed to welcoming the android challenge was Bulma, who is a non-warrior pussy. I'm not saying what they did isn't selfish or reckless but attacking a defenseless old man for something they can't hold him accountable for is rather cowardly and is not heroic at all either. This is also nowhere near as extreme as the tournament case, even a child can tell you that.

It was pretty damn likely that people would end up dying, and again when lives are concerned it's best to take the safest route. But the Z-Fighters didn't. Because they wanted a good fight.

When they have a 3 year head start to combat this potential threat, chances are they can prevent shit from getting thick. Again, the only reason the situation got as bad as they in the main timeline was because Trunks' interference with the 3rd (or 4th) timeline drastically changed up the following events (#16 and #19 existing, Dr. Gero turning himself into an android, #17 and #18 being a lot stronger) which they couldn't possibly account for.

[Noah]

I'd enjoy Goku's character flaws is what makes him interesting to me, not like Super making him often obnoxious exaggerating his personality in Z.

I don't know if Gotenks could've defeated Kid Buu.

You don't? Gotenks would obliterate Kid Boo bringing Gohan with him would be extremely overkill.

[Kanassa]

not a sacrifice, because Goku had no knowledge of there being a bad consequence. A sacrifice requires the person involved to have some idea of what their action's outcome.

At first, no... but he isn't doing anything to fix it. In fact, he openly welcomes the challenge despite the fact it involves trillions dying which is why I consider it a sacrifice.

He did want to try and convince Zeno to call it off, but then he was stopped by Whis. And so he does the only thing he can do now, protect his universe. And again, even if what you said was true, that isn't a sacrifice.

Which doesn't go against what I said.

It does because you're basically implying Goku doesn't value life when he clearly does.

I'm starting to wonder, do you actually read my posts? Because I in no way implied that. I stated that Goku needs tragedy shoved in his face before it makes him emotional. Like most people really.

Ah, so you're all for Goku reminding Zeno then? Since, only a non-Warrior pussy would take the cowards way out and try to stop this deadly tournament from happening. Also, what does taking the 'cowards' way out (Trying to avoid risking lives is the cowards way out now?) even add? That doesn't change that they were actively and knowingly risking the lives of the entire planet for the sake of a good fight.

No... Goku was warned by his superiors not to associate himself with Zeno but he ignored them (which by itself I don't mind that much) while the only person opposed to welcoming the android challenge was Bulma, who is a non-warrior pussy.

Using your logic, they're the same concept. Lives put at risk because they want a good fight. Except, in the Zeno situation Goku didn't know he was putting lives at risk.

I'm not saying what they did isn't selfish or reckless but attacking a defenseless old man for something they can't hold him accountable for is rather cowardly and is not heroic at all either. This is also nowhere near as extreme as the tournament case, even a child can tell you that.

He's not a defensless old man. He's the psychotic lead scientist of the Red Ribbon Army WHO IS BUILDING DEATH MACHINES TO KILL MILLIONS (His main target being GOku). And again, they don't have to hurt him, kill him or anything. They simply have to destroy his research. That's it. There's no moral quandry here.

And also to stress. Who the fuck cares if going after Gero is cowardly or unheroic? The Z-Fighters don't care. THey just want to fight. And with anyone who's actually heroic, they wouldn't care, because lives are at stake. Millions of lives. You keep repeating this asinine line of how it's cowardly, but that means nothing in this situation. The only thing it serves is giving me hilarious images of police or fire fighters telling each other to do stupid shit in a high stakes situation because they're afraid they'll be called pussies.

It was pretty damn likely that people would end up dying, and again when lives are concerned it's best to take the safest route. But the Z-Fighters didn't. Because they wanted a good fight.

When they have a 3 year head start to combat this potential threat, chances are they can prevent shit from getting thick. Again, the only reason the situation got as bad as they in the main timeline was because Trunks' interference with the 3rd (or 4th) timeline drastically changed up the following events (#16 and #19 existing, Dr. Gero turning himself into an android, #17 and #18 being a lot stronger) which they couldn't possibly account for.

With the general personalities of the Z-Fighters, the head start really means little, because they most likely would of been close to that power when they faced the androids anyway. And again, that doesn't change the fact that it was a stupid risk to take if this wasn't for the sake of a good fight.

[rereboy]

I can ignore every Terminator movie after T2, doesn't mean that it's not still there.

If it bothers you, then you aren't ignoring it.

That's basically like saying that someone that enjoyed Terminator: Salvation should not have been even been allowed to enjoy it and that the movie shouldn't exist simply because I can't actually ignore the fact that sequels to T2 exist. In other words, that my inability to actually ignore their existence and to not let their mere existence bother me, should matter more than the enjoyment others got from it.

You don't? Gotenks would obliterate Kid Boo bringing Gohan with him would be extremely overkill.

Unless Kid Buu absorbed them or turned them into candy or transported them to outer space, either one would kill Kid Buu, imo.

[ABED]

I can ignore every Terminator movie after T2, doesn't mean that it's not still there.

If it bothers you, then you aren't ignoring it.

That's basically like saying that someone that enjoyed Terminator: Salvation should not have been even been allowed to enjoy it and that the movie shouldn't exist simply because I can't actually ignore the fact that sequels to T2 exist. In other others, that my inability to actually ignore their existence and to not let their mere existence bother me, should matter more than the enjoyment others got from it.

It just means I'm not watching them. I can't control my emotions, I can just control my actions.

And what I'm saying is that Salvation shouldn't exist. If there's no film, there's nothing to miss. As long as the sequels to those movies or to DB exist, there will be those that enjoy them. There will also always be people that want something they enjoy to keep going, but stories are better for having an (good) ending. I love Breaking Bad, but it needed to end. One of the reasons I and others hold that series in such high esteem is because it ended when the time was right and stuck the landing.

You don't? Gotenks would obliterate Kid Boo bringing Gohan with him would be extremely overkill.

Based on what? Goku as Super Saiyan 3 couldn't stop him.

[rereboy]

You are just confirming what I already said. You want it to not exist because you can't ignore its existence.

[ABED]

You are just confirming what I already said. You want it to not exist because you can't ignore its existence.

Partly, I mostly want it to not exist because the story went on for a while and already had an ending. It had two endings in fact. Everything I'm hearing about the continuation is mixed at best, like most revivals.

[TheUltimateNinja]

You don't? Gotenks would obliterate Kid Boo bringing Gohan with him would be extremely overkill.

Based on what? Goku as Super Saiyan 3 couldn't stop him.

So? Gotenks is much stronger than Goku.

[Noah]

Unless Kid Buu absorbed them or turned them into candy or transported them to outer space, either one would kill Kid Buu, imo.

Would you expect them to fall the same trick twice?

Based on what? Goku as Super Saiyan 3 couldn't stop him.

Based on SSJ3 Goku being a fodder to Gotenks and Ultimate Gohan of course.

[ABED]

You don't? Gotenks would obliterate Kid Boo bringing Gohan with him would be extremely overkill.

Based on what? Goku as Super Saiyan 3 couldn't stop him.

So? Gotenks is much stronger than Goku.

Do we have confirmation of that? And even if he is stronger, do we know how much stronger? I don't think there's anything in the series that suggests Gotenks could curbstomp Kid Buu. Goku's been wrong before.

Based on SSJ3 Goku being a fodder to Gotenks...

Based on what? It's also unclear if Mystic Gohan is stronger than Kid Buu.