Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[ArchedThunder]

Yong-ce Tu had one week to get his work done a few episodes back, and it was only just completed because Shimanuki stepped in to help.

Since this was the first episode he was credited to work on since he returned the the series I have to wonder if this was simply a case of him coming back to the series and them going "Hey, help us correct some stuff for this episode that has to be done in a few days."
Not really a defense for the schedule, I just think his situation might have been one of circumstance because he returned to the series when a seemingly troubled episode was being finished up.

[FortuneSSJ]

In my eyes it's not about criticism or opinion, that is fine. it is about having "valid" criticism or opinions. For ex. If you don't like Tate style that is 100% fine, however don't come here saying that Tate is not a good animator, or he does not know what he is doing. You look like an idiot. He is very good and talented animator, he has not shown something bad yet, other than #5 but we all know why that episode was an exception.

I second this. People should understand the difference between something that's bad or unrefined and something that's not suited to their preferences. Kitano is criticized because his work is clearly unintentionally different and in a visually unappealing way. He can't work well with the schedule. People not liking Tate's exaggerated take on animation isn't the same at all.

I agree with this from start to finish.

Does FortuneSSJ agree with this? (I'm curious c:)

About which part?

I agree about the part people need to be respectful when showing their dislike for someone's work.
I don't agree Tate's rough style fits this franchise. His rough art is suited for shows like Shin-chan and Pokémon Sun and Moon.

Dragon Ball has a definite look. It should look like Toriyama's manga or close to it.
Just like Toyotaro does with DBS manga (except the ridiculous amount of throwbacks because the guys lacks creativity), Toei must work to get close to Toriyama's style.

Why do you think the overall fanbase doesn't have any problems with Yamamuro?! Because he still knows how the characters must look and he's still one of the best when it comes to draw them. He proved that once again when he soloed the new Ending.

Are his designs perfect? Well I would definitely remove the highlights but other than that, they are close to it.
Do I agree with him correcting everyone's work? No, but wildcards like Kitano and Tate need to be kept in check.

I see some people here saying his Geens's design makes him look like he's drunk (and I agree he does look weird, even though just fix his eyes would solve it), but let's not conveniently forget how many characters he had to draw for this arc.

My complaints are not about Tate personally, but about that rough style he insists to use.

My first contact with that style was when I was a kid and I watched Digimon Movie or Shin-Chan. Don't remember which one I saw first, but basically for Digimon movie I wondered why the Movie looked much worse than the tv episodes. While for Shin-chan that style was the main reason why I never got invested in the show.

Years later I found that style again when I was watching One Piece and I wondered once again what was happening.
Some episodes looked good, others like that. My complaints started during during Sabaody Archipelago arc if I remember.

Then I watched One Piece Movies and I hated how Movie 6 and Episode of Chopper looked.
It was when I heard about Naoki Tate after the polemic DBS episode 5 that I decided to research about the animators behind that stuff I didn't like before and I got mys answers.

[Wezenheim]

Since this was the first episode he was credited to work on since he returned the the series I have to wonder if this was simply a case of him coming back to the series and them going "Hey, help us correct some stuff for this episode that has to be done in a few days."
Not really a defense for the schedule, I just think his situation might have been one of circumstance because he returned to the series when a seemingly troubled episode was being finished up.

I don't think this is the case. A freelancer like Tu probably wouldn't be hanging around the studio, not to mention the fact that the director typically hands out roles ahead of time. This isn't always the case, but I'm pretty sure it's the norm. If he was called in with only a week left, it means things were probably pretty darn bad.

[ArchedThunder]

Since this was the first episode he was credited to work on since he returned the the series I have to wonder if this was simply a case of him coming back to the series and them going "Hey, help us correct some stuff for this episode that has to be done in a few days."
Not really a defense for the schedule, I just think his situation might have been one of circumstance because he returned to the series when a seemingly troubled episode was being finished up.

I don't think this is the case. A freelancer like Huang probably wouldn't be hanging around the studio, not to mention the fact that the director typically hands out roles ahead of time. This isn't always the case, but I'm pretty sure it's the norm. If he was called in with only a week left, it means things were probably pretty darn bad.

Huh? I never said anything about him being around the studio or anything, I just said it seemed like he chose to come back to series and the time he picked was when a troubled episode was in its final days so they put him on that. You pretty much just said what I said.
EDIT: Wait, who's Huang?

[Wezenheim]

Huh? I never said anything about him being around the studio or anything, I just said it seemed like he chose to come back to series and the time he picked was when a troubled episode was in its final days so they put him on that. You pretty much just said what I said.
EDIT: Wait, who's Huang?

Didn't mean to say Huang, sorry. I'm a mess of a tired human being, I don't even know what I was thinking about . Meant to say Tu. Anyway, I'm saying he wouldn't have just strolled back into the series and then waved over by somebody like it seemed you were implying.

[jeffbr92]

Do you guys think the animators will handle well the Battle Royale? I mean 80 fighters fighting at the same time in one big ring seems tough

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Do you guys think the animators will handle well the Battle Royale? I mean 80 fighters fighting at the same time in one big ring seems tough

We won't see 80 fighters at once battling on-screen at once for any length, it's not even in the cards for Super. We won't see all of the fights, and those that we do won't be shown to us at the same time. The hype is fun and all, but don't let it influence your actual expectations. This is still a weekly series with a very limited schedule and staff, not a movie.

[ArchedThunder]

Didn't mean to say Huang, sorry. I'm a mess of a tired human being, I don't even know what I was thinking about . Meant to say Tu. Anyway, I'm saying he wouldn't have just strolled back into the series and then waved over by somebody like it seemed you were implying.

I didn't mean it to sound like that, sorry, I was just saying it's possible that he personally chose to come back to the series and he picked a bad time because episode 81 was troubled and reaching its deadline so they threw him on that, that's all I meant.

Do you guys think the animators will handle well the Battle Royale? I mean 80 fighters fighting at the same time in one big ring seems tough

We won't see 80 fighters at once battling on-screen at once for any length, it's not even in the cards for Super. We won't see all of the fights, and those that we do won't be shown to us at the same time. The hype is fun and all, but don't let it influence your actual expectations. This is still a weekly series with a very limited schedule and staff, not a movie.

It will be interesting to see if they try and do any tricks to make it seem like tons of fights are going on. I expect at least a few cuts with people standing around one character while they take down multiple characters one after another, kinda like with Freeza's men in F.

[Wezenheim]

I didn't mean it to sound like that, sorry, I was just saying it's possible that he personally chose to come back to the series and he picked a bad time because episode 81 was troubled and reaching its deadline so they threw him on that, that's all I meant.

It's no problem, I'm simply trying to say that returning at that particular point probably wasn't his choice. I don't think he, a freelance second key animator, would've gone "Okay, I'm ready to return to Dragon Ball right now!" Am I making sense? It doesn't really work the way you're speculating about.

[dhaval_dongre]

Did Tu say that he had one week to do the clean up or one week was left for the episode to air when he was working ? Either way I wasn't surprised that he had little time, because
reason 1) Super's schedule is still tight, I definitely think its better than before but it won't return to normalcy this early

reason 2) We also had A-line do 2nd KA on the episode along with Yokohama and a few others. Probably their hands might be full. But could be the fact that it might be an important key and they wanted him to do that. Plus he is a freelancer, so really tough to tell when he joined the staff back at Super again.

He also worked on 86, so probably his work on that might be a better indicator of the schedule.

[Gashif Aldi]

If that episode have issues, that doesn't mean other episodes are also having issues.
Maybe they were thinking or speculating that Tate can Supervise most of them. But, turns out they need someone. So yeah.

Also, for FortuneSSJ. It think it's best to let Tate go uncorrected, but when things get too rough, they can send a lots of 2nd Key Animations. I'm also bothered by how Tate drew Goku's body. Just, some of Tate's work is very Z, and sometimes it's just looks like a kid's drawing.
Since Tate always go overboard for giving a Sakuga without even looking the schedule, lol.
As for Yamamuro, just let him fix the nose, fix the shading, and tone down the details. And he is good, especially his speciality in martial arts.

Like, his shot from episode 5. That SSJ closeup is good, it really looks like Z but mixed with Yammamuro's design.
Picture:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/proxy ... 30-h278-nc

[JazzMazz]

I second this. People should understand the difference between something that's bad or unrefined and something that's not suited to their preferences. Kitano is criticized because his work is clearly unintentionally different and in a visually unappealing way. He can't work well with the schedule. People not liking Tate's exaggerated take on animation isn't the same at all.

I agree with this from start to finish.

Does FortuneSSJ agree with this? (I'm curious c:)

About which part?

I agree about the part people need to be respectful when showing their dislike for someone's work.
I don't agree Tate's rough style fits this franchise. His rough art is suited for shows like Shin-chan and Pokémon Sun and Moon.

Dragon Ball has a definite look. It should look like Toriyama's manga or close to it.
Just like Toyotaro does with DBS manga (except the ridiculous amount of throwbacks because the guys lacks creativity), Toei must work to get close to Toriyama's style.

Why do you think the overall fanbase doesn't have any problems with Yamamuro?! Because he still knows how the characters must look and he's still one of the best when it comes to draw them. He proved that once again when he soloed the new Ending.

Are his designs perfect? Well I would definitely remove the highlights but other than that, they are close to it.
Do I agree with him correcting everyone's work? No, but wildcards like Kitano and Tate need to be kept in check.

I see some people here saying his Geens's design makes him look like he's drunk (and I agree he does look weird, even though just fix his eyes would solve it), but let's not conveniently forget how many characters he had to draw for this arc.

My complaints are not about Tate personally, but about that rough style he insists to use.

My first contact with that style was when I was a kid and I watched Digimon Movie or Shin-Chan. Don't remember which one I saw first, but basically for Digimon movie I wondered why the Movie looked much worse than the tv episodes. While for Shin-chan that style was the main reason why I never got invested in the show.

Years later I found that style again when I was watching One Piece and I wondered once again what was happening.
Some episodes looked good, others like that. My complaints started during during Sabaody Archipelago arc if I remember.

Then I watched One Piece Movies and I hated how Movie 6 and Episode of Chopper looked.
It was when I heard about Naoki Tate after the polemic DBS episode 5 that I decided to research about the animators behind that stuff I didn't like before and I got mys answers.

Can I ask you if you really enjoyed the Studio Cockpit episodes, I am aware that it's an overused argument but I feel it still holds water here. Studio Cockpit is one of the most well recieved studios and were entrusted important episodes even though their character designs looked absolutely nothing like Toriyama's.
Also, about animators mimicking Toriyama's style heres a quote from Ajay so he won't have to repeat himself:

"Animators aren't paid to mimic Toriyama - the show has its own character designs as a guide - they're not expected to be followed to a T. Animation is a creative medium and each supervisor puts their own mark on the series. Supervisors are given certain episodes based on what the director(s) think they can bring to the table."

Also, the highlights on the current designs are only a one of the their many problems.

Heres a list vaguely outlining all the problems with the chacter models, not using my wording but I think it gets the job done:
"The noses, instead of a more natural-looking curve (like they used to have) are now a nasty straight line.

The Shading on the faces curves backwards, creating a very puffy cheek, as Opposed to the lines which chiseled the character's faces.

For some strange reason eyes are moved really far over pushing them out toward the sides

Important detail has been lost on the furrow of the brow inbeterrn the eyes.

From the Front view of the characters, the nose looks like a random hole in the face instead of an actual nose. This is because the shadow has no referenc near it so it, instead looks to be caving in. If there was a line placed on the side, it would look like a nose.

The eyebrows have lost a very important arch to them, making faces look flat

Jaw lines have been squished up making the characters loo unnaturally chibi

That fucking highlight makes everybody look like a plastic toy, skin does NOT shine like that, instead of using 3 tones (Normal, shading, Really deep shading) there is a (Highlight, Normal tone, and Shade) it looks gross."
Again, not my wording.

[TheRed259]

Does anyone else have any Déjà Vu when it comes to some animators, especially in the fight scenes of the series? Does anyone know if the animators can ignore the storyboard if they want to?

[Ajay]

Does anyone else have any Déjà Vu when it comes to some animators, especially in the fight scenes of the series? Does anyone know if the animators can ignore the storyboard if they want to?

It varies. I think what you're probably noticing are just animators' various quirks. There are certain 'stock animations' they fall back on or make their trademark.

Take Naotoshi Shida, for example. The number of cuts from him where you'll find a body part snaking into the air, or a mouth gaping open and shut at tremendous speed.

You'll find this kinda thing across pretty much any distinctive animator.

[JulieYBM]

Does anyone else have any Déjà Vu when it comes to some animators, especially in the fight scenes of the series? Does anyone know if the animators can ignore the storyboard if they want to?

It varies. I think what you're probably noticing are just animators' various quirks. There are certain 'stock animations' they fall back on or make their trademark.

Take Naotoshi Shida, for example. The number of cuts from him where you'll find a body part snaking into the air, or a mouth gaping open and shut at tremendous speed.

You'll find this kinda thing across pretty much any distinctive animator.

Yup. These fall back into Japan's coded storytelling and symbolism. It's just like the use of an insert song or a transformation BANK, it's a simple maneuver to convey an exact idea to the audience.

[Amir]

To me the only flaws in his designs are the highlights and noses. Other than that it's fine.

[FortuneSSJ]

Can I ask you if you really enjoyed the Studio Cockpit episodes, I am aware that it's an overused argument but I feel it still holds water here. Studio Cockpit is one of the most well recieved studios and were entrusted important episodes even though their character designs looked absolutely nothing like Toriyama's.

I have no problems with any DB episode before DBS. There were episodes with some bad shots, but overall not anything close to the rough style that I'm talking.
Tate was also good boy before.

As for Studios, my favourite was Studio Junio. Honestly It was the only studio I could tell apart because how the quality would skyrocket in their episodes.
Minoru Maeda was the Boss and Masaki Satō still puts everyone to shame, judging by the drawings he shares on his twitter.

I didn't have any problems with Studio Cockpit, because it still felt I was watching Dragon Ball. That's my problem with Tate's rough style. It doesn't feel like how Dragon Ball should look to me and it's a style that bothers since I was a kid like I said before.

"Animators aren't paid to mimic Toriyama - the show has its own character designs as a guide - they're not expected to be followed to a T. Animation is a creative medium and each supervisor puts their own mark on the series. Supervisors are given certain episodes based on what the director(s) think they can bring to the table."

Each animator was his own style of course as we can see here, but the show overall still should look closely to what the original author envisioned.
Go overboard like Tate is going often in DBS is already crossing the line.

Also, the highlights on the current designs are only a one of the their many problems.

Heres a list vaguely outlining all the problems with the chacter models, not using my wording but I think it gets the job done:
"The noses, instead of a more natural-looking curve (like they used to have) are now a nasty straight line.

The Shading on the faces curves backwards, creating a very puffy cheek, as Opposed to the lines which chiseled the character's faces.

For some strange reason eyes are moved really far over pushing them out toward the sides

Important detail has been lost on the furrow of the brow inbeterrn the eyes.

From the Front view of the characters, the nose looks like a random hole in the face instead of an actual nose. This is because the shadow has no referenc near it so it, instead looks to be caving in. If there was a line placed on the side, it would look like a nose.

The eyebrows have lost a very important arch to them, making faces look flat

Jaw lines have been squished up making the characters loo unnaturally chibi

That fucking highlight makes everybody look like a plastic toy, skin does NOT shine like that, instead of using 3 tones (Normal, shading, Really deep shading) there is a (Highlight, Normal tone, and Shade) it looks gross."
Again, not my wording.

Oh, this was really technical! I'm still new to this animation stuff.
I talked about the highlights because it's the only thing that bothers me in Yamamuro's designs. I don't have enough knowledge to go in detail like that.

[ArchedThunder]

I have no problems with any DB episode before DBS. There were episodes with some bad shots, but overall not anything close to the rough style that I'm talking.

Seriously? There were some pretty damn ugly episodes of Z.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I have no problems with any DB episode before DBS. There were episodes with some bad shots, but overall not anything close to the rough style that I'm talking.

Seriously? There were some pretty damn ugly episodes of Z.

The standards were also lower, meaning that the worst episode of Z is much closer to average than in Super. I can get why someone who maybe hasn't payed a whole lot of attention to the visual aspects of Z would feel that way. Especially so for those who only watch that part of the series through Kai nowadays, since they cut quite a bit (though not all) of the lackluster stuff out.

[Metalwario64]

I have no problems with any DB episode before DBS. There were episodes with some bad shots, but overall not anything close to the rough style that I'm talking.

Seriously? There were some pretty damn ugly episodes of Z.

Dragon Ball Super has had some excellently high points of animation, but by that same token, it's also had some of the lowest lows. Many cuts of animation made me appreciate Uchiyama (well, pre GT at least) more than I used to, at the very least.