Broly, stronger than Perfect Cell?

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Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece
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Post by Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:05 pm

Akira wrote:Let's debate the topic title and not get hung up on silly side issues that aren't issues at all.
Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:Also, while we're talking about Broli and Cell, I'd like to add that Cell has the power around that of a Super Saiyajin 2, which can be proven very easily through the lightning aura he acquires.

This puts Cell ahead of Broli, no matter how many galaxy destroying self contradictions you put out there. Why, you ask?

The Legendary Super Saiyajin stage is much like Super Saiyajin 3rd Grade, just that there is a gainage of speed instead of loss. This gives Broli the brute force to have a fair battle with Super Perfect Cell or Super Saiyajin 2 Gohan.

However, Cell would easily have the upper hand due to his techniques such as Shukanido, Makkankosappo, and the like.

Broli, on the other hand, can only control basic ki. Notice how he never changes up his attack, it's always the same ki orb or barrier. He doesn't have enough concentration to build up his ki. Sure, it explodes, so what?

Cell can regenerate from one cell, and along with the Saiyajin Loss bonus, he comes back even stronger. If Broli slipped up even once (not knowing Cell would regenerate, which he wouldn't) he would be done for.

So by your logic, even if Broli can destroy galaxies, Cell is even stronger.
Rebuttle, anyone?

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Post by Kaboom » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:19 pm

You bet.

It's spelled "rebuttal."
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Post by Humpski » Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:19 pm

I'm not going to argue Tullece, I think Cell is the stronger of the two.
:D

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Post by Phenomenol » Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:29 pm

caejones wrote:Did the scene actually show it happening in one shot, or just in a really short space of time? Remember that in the 22nd tournament 8 attacks tended to look like one to the untrained eye. So really, the scene in question only proves that a galaxy was destroyed. Not how, which is why this argument can happen at all.

But yah... it's pretty much decided that Cell>Broli.
22nd tournament example is not the same thing. Noone is watching Broli destroying a galaxy but King Kai who is omniscient.
Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:If it were IN ONE SHOT then there wouldn't be gaps in the galaxy, now would there?
The galaxy simply vanished.
Humpski wrote:So Phenomenal you think Broli can destroy a whole galaxy instantly? I doubt it. He can't even successfully punch Videl. "FACT! SHOWN! LOOK IT UP!" (Whatever else it is you've been saying)
I don't "think" I know Broli destroyed a galaxy because the movie shows it. As for your Videl argument, Goku got punched by Kuririn and it hurt, so I doubt that Goku could destroy planets and more. :roll:
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Post by SS2 Vegeto » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:21 pm

I like how you completely ignored Akira's post, which completely destroyed your chosen method of argument. Again.

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Post by Phenomenol » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:41 am

Akira wrote:Fact: The planets on which the events in Movie 8 take place are in the South Galaxy.


And? Just two planets that are damaged and not destroyed, whoopdey do.
Fact: Omnicient means all knowing, Ominipresent means everywhere at once. North Kaio is capable of neither. Saying he is either or both is stupid.
Kai is nigh on omnicient, hense why he can sense and see all over the universe.
If said movie takes place in the South Galaxy, then it was not entirely destroyed by Broly. Simple as that. Showing the galaxy blown up was a premonition of what could happen in the long run if Broly was not stopped. Saying otherwise is, again, stupid.
Wrong, just because two planets are barely intact doesn't mean that Broli didn't destroy a galaxy (IE few billion stars and planets). :roll:
While being held underwater by Freeza, as the tyrant tried to drown him, Son Goku saw his friends and family laughing and the planet earth exploding. IT WAS IN THE ANIME, IT MUST HAVE HAPPENED!!
Nope, another case of a worst case scenario premonition if Freeza was not stopped. Goku, while under the influence of the medicine, and trying to recover from the heart virus saw Android 17 and Android 18 kill Gohan and Krillin, then Chi-chi. IT WAS IN THE ANIME, IT MUST HAVE HAPPENED!! Nope, another worst case scenario premonition if the Androids were not stopped.

Let's get a grip on the fictional reality, and accept that the Galaxy blowing up scene was a premonition, not and actual event taking place. Let's debate the topic title and not get hung up on silly side issues that aren't issues at all.
*sigh*

Those were "WHAT IF'S," Broli destroying a galaxy is not a what if...IT MUTHABEEPIN happened!!!!

You can all try again to ridiculously ignore the facts. :roll:
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Post by TripleRach » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:23 am

Phenomenol wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze5sE7RebIE

......The damn Japanese (with Subs) say the same thing. You guys are really failing right now.
No, it really doesn't say the same thing. Daimao's translations have already been posted, but I'm going to be the second opinion, so to speak, and also give quotes of the Japanese dialogue.
During the swirly galaxy scene, the Narrator wrote:南の銀河を超サイヤ人が襲った。
A Super Saiya-jin has attacked the Southern Galaxy.
The dub says it's been "shattered," which is considerably different from being attacked.
Immediately after the swirly scene, Kaiou wrote:や やはり南の銀河に...
こ このままでは...この北の銀河まで破壊されてしまう。
S-So the Southern Galaxy...
A-At this rate...even our Northern Galaxy will be destroyed.
Here, dub Kaiou says the galaxy is "gone." While one might try to make the claim that Japanese Kaiou was trailing off into the same thing, Japanese grammar easily proves otherwise!

See, if he were referring to the galaxy being gone or having been destroyed, or any other action being done to it or indication of its state, the line would have ended with が ga, the subject marker, or を o, a direct object marker. But instead of either of those, に ni is used. に ni has a lot of uses, such as being the indirect object marker, a location/direction marker, or the inflicter of passive actions (as opposed to the receiver). In this context, the only use that would make sense would be location, so it would have to refer to an action happening in the galaxy, such as someone wreaking havoc in it. (There is no way one could discuss the Southern Galaxy being destroyed with it being the indirect object of the sentence, or the inflicter of an action on another recipient in a passive tense.)

Plus, like everyone else has been saying, Kaiou clearly tells Gokuu to go to the Southern Galaxy to investigate, and he discusses it being destroyed in a present tense (IE, it hasn't been completely destroyed yet). But I just wanted to debunk the dub's horrible dialogue in the opening scene.
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Post by Godo » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:17 am

Phenomenol wrote:And? Just two planets that are damaged and not destroyed, whoopdey do.



N-NO! Two planets that are intact, even though big chunks of planets should have hit them.
Phenomenol wrote:Kai is nigh on omnicient, hense why he can sense and see all over the universe.
No he is not. He missed a lot of events occuring on Earth.
Phenomenol wrote:Wrong, just because two planets are barely intact doesn't mean that Broli didn't destroy a galaxy (IE few billion stars and planets). :roll:
Don´t forget gravitation, it´s impossible for the planets to have their own amount of oxygen when it´s not held back by the force of gravitation.
Phenomenol wrote:*sigh*

Those were "WHAT IF'S," Broli destroying a galaxy is not a what if...IT MUTHABEEPIN happened!!!!

You can all try again to ridiculously ignore the facts. :roll:

You cannot be saying that you know for sure that it wasn´t a "what if"? Phuleeeeze. Had lunch with Toriyama recently?


What I think is this:

You have made your own view on the events occuring in this movie.
You have always been told that you are right, so when we tell you you might be wrong it makes you angry.
You think that your opinion is right because, of course, it comes from you.

Phenomenol (is that a new sort of alcohol by the way?), this is a forum.

We respect others opinions.


We should have respected yours if you wouldn´t just tell us we are wrong and then not prove your right. You have absolutely no facts to prove your opinion but "YOU CAN SEEEEEEEE IT!!! OMFGBBQ!!!1111"

The only ridiculous person here is not we, but you.

Plus, to add, caps lock is not your friend. We won´t read your post more clearly just because you have used caps lock. Use the bold tool instead.

Take your defeat like a man.

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Post by Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:42 am

Phenomenol wrote:
Akira wrote:Fact: The planets on which the events in Movie 8 take place are in the South Galaxy.


And? Just two planets that are damaged and not destroyed, whoopdey do.


I can think of give 5 just off the top of my head. Neo Vegeta, The slave thingies planet, the planet Vegeta and Broli leave for the first time, and the one Paragus tells Vegeta that the legendary super saiyajin is on so he won't leave. Then if you want to count the comet, you could. It's larger than Neo Vegeta...
You bet.

It's spelled "rebuttal."
*jots down notes*

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Post by Phenomenol » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:29 am

TripleRach wrote:
Phenomenol wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze5sE7RebIE

......The damn Japanese (with Subs) say the same thing. You guys are really failing right now.
No, it really doesn't say the same thing. Daimao's translations have already been posted, but I'm going to be the second opinion, so to speak, and also give quotes of the Japanese dialogue.
During the swirly galaxy scene, the Narrator wrote:南の銀河を超サイヤ人が襲った。
A Super Saiya-jin has attacked the Southern Galaxy.
The dub says it's been "shattered," which is considerably different from being attacked.
Immediately after the swirly scene, Kaiou wrote:や やはり南の銀河に...
こ このままでは...この北の銀河まで破壊されてしまう。
S-So the Southern Galaxy...
A-At this rate...even our Northern Galaxy will be destroyed.
Here, dub Kaiou says the galaxy is "gone." While one might try to make the claim that Japanese Kaiou was trailing off into the same thing, Japanese grammar easily proves otherwise!


Plus, like everyone else has been saying, Kaiou clearly tells Gokuu to go to the Southern Galaxy to investigate, and he discusses it being destroyed in a present tense (IE, it hasn't been completely destroyed yet). But I just wanted to debunk the dub's horrible dialogue in the opening scene.
You really just helped me out here. Broli has "ATTACKED" the Galaxy which means he has destroyed it. The Scene backs that claim up.

Like I said before New Vegeta and another planet were still intact that still doesn't mean anything when destroying a few billion stars and planets.
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Post by Humpski » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:48 am

Phenomenol wrote:You really just helped me out here. Broli has "ATTACKED" the Galaxy which means he has destroyed it. The Scene backs that claim up.
What?
Now you're just getting desperate. Desperate and delusional.
"Attacked" and "Destroyed" are two different words with two different meanings.

Why don't you just give up already?
Err, on second thought don't give up. Your bullheadedness is really amusing to behold. I like to see you squirm and struggle to win this losing battle. :lol:

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Post by Phenomenol » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:07 am

Wrong, the action shows the galaxy being destroyed, period.
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Post by Kaboom » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:12 am

I think this thread needs locking.
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Post by Godo » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:50 am

Phenomenol, read my post which you obviously have ignored, and be quiet.

I agree with SSJ Kaboom, please lock this thread.

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Post by Humpski » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:06 pm

Thirded.
It's gone on long enough. Someone call the authorities.

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Post by Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece » Wed Aug 01, 2007 1:31 pm

Phenomenol wrote:You really just helped me out here. Broli has "ATTACKED" the Galaxy which means he has destroyed it. The Scene backs that claim up.
If I punch you in the face, which I really want to, would you be destroyed? Because that would be attacking you, and seeing as you're obviously smarter than all of the people using logic, that must be right.

Or maybe this message was just too long for you to read. Oh well.

And fourth'ed. But whoever locks this, please post your opinions behind this so we can show Phenomenal the light.

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Post by Jerseymilk » Wed Aug 01, 2007 3:34 pm

Phenomenol wrote:Wrong, the action shows the galaxy being destroyed, period.
HEE-HAW!

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Post by Anonymous Friend » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:32 pm

I kinda skipped through the middle six pages cuz I thought this topic the be a little absurd. Of course Cell is stronger than Broli. Why else would we need a SSJ2 to defeat. And there's no way that a LSSJ form could equal the SSJ2 form, especially since the LSSJ defeated by a super-powered up Goku. We could have justed used that to defeat Cell.

As for the South Galaxy being destroyed in an instant, if Broli could do something like that then any being that's more powerful than him should be able to as well such as cell and Buu. Now if I'm no mistaken, wasn't Bibidi going around destroying parts of the universe? Now, being the we are all in agreement the Buu is much more powerful than Broli, wouldn't it be more efficient to take Buu from galaxy to galaxy destroying them if it were possible to destroy one in an instant?
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Post by Phenomenol » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:28 pm

Supa Saiya-Jin Tullece wrote:If I punch you in the face, which I really want to, would you be destroyed? Because that would be attacking you, and seeing as you're obviously smarter than all of the people using logic, that must be right.
Yes, then my nose starts bleeding and you give me a black eye and the result from that was a KO, then hell yes, you destroyed me!

He ATTACKED the galaxy and the panel shows the galaxy vanishing away, period.

Can't get any simpler than that you overanalyzing rocket scientists. :roll:
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Post by Drunken Master » Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:42 pm

Still haven't seen any proof that says Broly>Cell. Also, how would Broly destroy a WHOLE galaxy? A ki blast?
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