Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
The Patrolman wrote:Stephanie Nadolny Gohan is underrated
Really?
I think it's Collen Clinkenbeard's Gohan which is more underrated I mean most Z Dub Fans prefer Nadolny's voice for gohan over Collen's
I prefer Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, DB/Z/GT Movies, Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball GT in Japanese.
For DBZ Kai and two new Movies I like both Dub and Sub. I Prefer Shunsuke Kikuchi Soundtracks over All other Composers.
My MAL profile : https://myanimelist.net/profile/Ripper_30
The Search For The Dragon Balls arc is superior to the Red Ribbon arc. That's not to say that the Red Ribbon arc is a bad arc, it's not, it has a lot of elements I like, Sergent Mayor Purple is just a really entertaining character with the sheer level of his incompetence, General Blue is a vain, and sadistic villain who I enjoy, and upon many others. But, the arc really suffers from the under utilization of it's main cast, and Kid Goku.
Which is a problem, what made the last two arcs great before it were the side characters, Kid Goku has nearly no character, and his his naivety only really works when he has a cast of characters around him to bounce off of, which is a problem in the Red Ribbion arc as there's portions of the arc were he's by himself.
There's also some missed potential in the arc with Black, who I honestly believed should have taken over the Red Ribbon army half way through the arc instead of the end where he's wasted.
I'm fine with Freeza coming back this time. I don't think we needed F to do so since you could've just had Beerus or Whis remember how naturally powerful he was and have the good guys train him but for the character dynamic stuff, I'm willing to give this a chance.
Now, tell Tien, Roshi and Krillin to go fuck themselves and bring in Goten, Trunks in. You cannot. Can. Fucking. Not! Put in Freeza here and tell me Goten and Trunks are bad team players as an excuse to not use them on the team.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:I'm fine with Freeza coming back this time. I don't think we needed F to do so since you could've just had Beerus or Whis remember how naturally powerful he was and have the good guys train him but for the character dynamic stuff, I'm willing to give this a chance.
Now, tell Tien, Roshi and Krillin to go fuck themselves and bring in Goten, Trunks in. You cannot. Can. Fucking. Not! Put in Freeza here and tell me Goten and Trunks are bad team players as an excuse to not use them on the team.
Just revive Cell and Dabura and put them in there instead.
ekrolo2 wrote:I'm fine with Freeza coming back this time. I don't think we needed F to do so since you could've just had Beerus or Whis remember how naturally powerful he was and have the good guys train him but for the character dynamic stuff, I'm willing to give this a chance.
Now, tell Tien, Roshi and Krillin to go fuck themselves and bring in Goten, Trunks in. You cannot. Can. Fucking. Not! Put in Freeza here and tell me Goten and Trunks are bad team players as an excuse to not use them on the team.
Just revive Cell and Dabura and put them in there instead.
Or that, yeah. Over half the U7 team are redeemed bad guys in one way or another and since they're willing to use Freeza, Cell and Dabura should be no brainers.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Now, tell Tien, Roshi and Krillin to go fuck themselves and bring in Goten, Trunks in. You cannot. Can. Fucking. Not! Put in Freeza here and tell me Goten and Trunks are bad team players as an excuse to not use them on the team.
I never thought about that. But... yeah. That's just makes Goten and Trunks absence all the more jarring. Like Toriyama really did not want Goten and Trunks in this arc at all. I have a feeling in the manga, they won't even give an excuse. They'll mention their names and then Goku and Gohan will just say "no" on them being on the team and move on.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
ekrolo2 wrote:Now, tell Tien, Roshi and Krillin to go fuck themselves and bring in Goten, Trunks in. You cannot. Can. Fucking. Not! Put in Freeza here and tell me Goten and Trunks are bad team players as an excuse to not use them on the team.
I never thought about that. But... yeah. That's just makes Goten and Trunks absence all the more jarring. Like Toriyama really did not want Goten and Trunks in this arc at all. I have a feeling in the manga, they won't even give an excuse. They'll mention their names and then Goku and Gohan will just say "no" on them being on the team and move on.
It's also reminds me of the anime's obnoxious Gohan situation where the plot from Toriyama clearly has nothing for him to do but the anime staff feel the need to try and include him just to pour salt on an open wound. Trunks had something of a revelation by meeting his future self to take care of what he has, an anime only thing that now means nothing when Trunks should be begging his dad on his knees to let him fight so he can do just that!
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Or that, yeah. Over half the U7 team are redeemed bad guys in one way or another and since they're willing to use Freeza, Cell and Dabura should be no brainers.
Actually, someone told me this the other day, but it would be pretty cool if there was a limit on how many members per race you could have on your team. Maybe 1, or 2 since you can't seem to have a DBS arc without Vegeta in a relevant role. We could see races like the Yardrats fighting.
ekrolo2 wrote:Or that, yeah. Over half the U7 team are redeemed bad guys in one way or another and since they're willing to use Freeza, Cell and Dabura should be no brainers.
Actually, someone told me this the other day, but it would be pretty cool if there was a limit on how many members per race you could have on your team. Maybe 1, or 2 since you can't seem to have a DBS arc without Vegeta in a relevant role. We could see races like the Yardrats fighting.
You mean have people who'd use actual strategy & tactics for an arc no one can shut the hell up about being centered around strategy and tactics?! What a novel idea!
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Now, tell Tien, Roshi and Krillin to go fuck themselves and bring in Goten, Trunks in. You cannot. Can. Fucking. Not! Put in Freeza here and tell me Goten and Trunks are bad team players as an excuse to not use them on the team.
I never thought about that. But... yeah. That's just makes Goten and Trunks absence all the more jarring. Like Toriyama really did not want Goten and Trunks in this arc at all. I have a feeling in the manga, they won't even give an excuse. They'll mention their names and then Goku and Gohan will just say "no" on them being on the team and move on.
It's also reminds me of the anime's obnoxious Gohan situation where the plot from Toriyama clearly has nothing for him to do but the anime staff feel the need to try and include him just to pour salt on an open wound. Trunks had something of a revelation by meeting his future self to take care of what he has, an anime only thing that now means nothing when Trunks should be begging his dad on his knees to let him fight so he can do just that!
I don't feel what Super did with Gohan really poured salt in an open wound. He was already a total fodder material in BOG. And ROF was 100% Toriyama treating Gohan like a loser and Toei just followed suit. He did nothing in the Champa arc, and in the Future Trunks arc all he did he was catch up with Future Trunks and wish he well when the arc ended. The only shit he's gotten up to outside of the main plot has been Great Saiyaman shenanigans. Which are very hit and miss these days.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lunch is the worst thing ever, in the history of everything. She's a boring one note character who's pure of heart, and that's it. Her gag also wears off quickly after it's creation, and introduction. Her blond hair form while better in every way should be it's own character. I'm glad that she's forgotten, and I'm glad that she's never coming back.
Not sure if this is unpopular but I liked the Potaufeu arc
Power levels are not just big numbers:
Spoiler:
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
jeffbr92 wrote:Not sure if this is unpopular but I liked the Potaufeu arc
It's very unpopular. I don't know why, though. It wasn't an offensively bad story, and I've never heard anyone try to argue to that effect. Maybe it left a bad taste because everyone was hyped for the FT Arc at the time, and Potaufeu was in the way.
Gog wrote:Lunch is the worst thing ever, in the history of everything. She's a boring one note character who's pure of heart, and that's it. Her gag also wears off quickly after it's creation, and introduction. Her blond hair form while better in every way should be it's own character. I'm glad that she's forgotten, and I'm glad that she's never coming back.
Blue haired Launch is dull, but blonde Launch is hilarious and she was great. But I do agree she'd have no place in DBZ. She's just be another throwaway background character on the sidelines like Chi Chi, Videl, etc. if she stayed around.
Gog wrote:Lunch is the worst thing ever, in the history of everything. She's a boring one note character who's pure of heart, and that's it. Her gag also wears off quickly after it's creation, and introduction. Her blond hair form while better in every way should be it's own character. I'm glad that she's forgotten, and I'm glad that she's never coming back.
Blue haired Launch is dull, but blonde Launch is hilarious and she was great. But I do agree she'd have no place in DBZ. She's just be another throwaway background character on the sidelines like Chi Chi, Videl, etc. if she stayed around.
There were sometimes were I even disliked Blond Hair Lunch. She's just such an annoying extreme, to Blue Haired Lunch's boring personality. Honestly, it would have just been best if Lunch was a mixture of the two personalities.
jeffbr92 wrote:Not sure if this is unpopular but I liked the Potaufeu arc
It's very unpopular. I don't know why, though. It wasn't an offensively bad story, and I've never heard anyone try to argue to that effect. Maybe it left a bad taste because everyone was hyped for the FT Arc at the time, and Potaufeu was in the way.
I think the main issue with the arc is how much it wastes its premise and characters. It has a cast of Jaco, Goten, Trunks, Vegeta and Goku set on a alien world and does nothing with them. I hated the mini-arc when I first watched it. But re-viewings of it have somewhat lessened my disdain towards those episodes. It's no long Garlic Jr. or Super 17 level bad, but it's still bad.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
jeffbr92 wrote:Not sure if this is unpopular but I liked the Potaufeu arc
It's very unpopular. I don't know why, though. It wasn't an offensively bad story, and I've never heard anyone try to argue to that effect. Maybe it left a bad taste because everyone was hyped for the FT Arc at the time, and Potaufeu was in the way.
Pretty much. The Potaufeu arc was not bad by any stretch, much like the Black Star Dragon Ball arc it was just extremely bland and uninteresting and only made the lead up to an exciting arc feel like a drag. It's not an arc I'd willingly revisit but I wish they had of done more slice-of-life episodes as they are Super's strong point.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula
I can't believe that arc is the one time Trunks and Goten got a role in Super, and they still managed to mess it up. They should have had Trunks and Goten play the heroes instead of using Goku.