What If: Toriyama Retired?

[DBZAOTA482]

He kind of already is retired but if he stopped working on the series altogether, Super would fail just like GT.

[Xeztin]

If Toriyama quits writing scripts it's more than likely going to be done quietly. None of us will know except from hints from leaks and rumors. Somebody will take over and do an arc or two and then some director or someone involved will let it slip and come out and say Toriyama stepped down 2 arcs ago. I think Toei will do something like this because they want to see if an arc with no involvement of his will do good ratings without removing his name. If it does good then they'd announce it. I doubt they'd risk a riot or ratings drop by announcing Toriyama's retirement on the exact same day he retires. OR he could retire without fans ever knowing because there's no law saying they have to, if he looks at one line and says "yep fine with me where's my money" it still counts as involvement. Toyotaro, Shueisha, and Toei will be the successors I'd say. Of course they might hire some novel writers like with Boruto.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

If Toriyama quits writing scripts it's more than likely going to be done quietly. None of us will know except from hints from leaks and rumors. Somebody will take over and do an arc or two and then some director or someone involved will let it slip and come out and say Toriyama stepped down 2 arcs ago.

I think you're projecting how you'd handle the situation onto this. In reality, Akira Toriyama has a place in the credits of every single episode of Super, and even if they try to keep his absence quiet, which is not a valid assumption in itself, we'll know he's gone when his credit is gone.

[ABED]

World building is quite honestly not that interesting. I'm not that interested in DB lore as I am characters and story and having it feel like DB as opposed to someone else's take on DB.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

World building is quite honestly not that interesting. I'm not that interested in DB lore as I am characters and story and having it feel like DB as opposed to someone else's take on DB.

I love lore, but I think most of it should be saved for side stories and guidebooks. Now if only we could get those things released over here...

[Xeztin]

If Toriyama quits writing scripts it's more than likely going to be done quietly. None of us will know except from hints from leaks and rumors. Somebody will take over and do an arc or two and then some director or someone involved will let it slip and come out and say Toriyama stepped down 2 arcs ago.

I think you're projecting how you'd handle the situation onto this. In reality, Akira Toriyama has a place in the credits of every single episode of Super, and even if they try to keep his absence quiet, which is not a valid assumption in itself, we'll know he's gone when his credit is gone.

That's the thing if Toei wanted to keep it quiet they wouldn't remove him from the credits, he could stop writing stories and just stick to glancing at Toei's scripts. That in itself would gain him a credit of involvement.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

That's the thing if Toei wanted to keep it quiet they wouldn't remove him from the credits, he could stop writing stories and just stick to glancing at Toei's scripts. That in itself would gain him a credit of involvement.

That's not how it works, you can't just fraudulently credit someone as the author because it's convenient. If he simply supervised scripts, he'd either be credited for that or would remain uncredited, but we'd know that he wasn't taking responsibility for the stories, regardless. The credit would also disappear from future DBS manga volumes.

[Hellspawn28]

If Toei made Dragon Ball again without Toriyama, I feel like less people will watch and support it. I feel like Toei having Toriyama work on the last two movies was a big selling point because it made people go like "OMG Toriyama is back!!". If BOG and ROF was like DBZ Movies 1-13, I feel like they would not be that good and less people would check them out. I think once Toriyama is done, let the series rest for a long time or if not forever.

[ABED]

World building is quite honestly not that interesting. I'm not that interested in DB lore as I am characters and story and having it feel like DB as opposed to someone else's take on DB.

I love lore, but I think most of it should be saved for side stories and guidebooks. Now if only we could get those things released over here...

In story it has its place but I like to keep it to a minimum, enough to tell the story and maybe a little more to give the world a sense of history, but I'm not a big fan of Tolkien level detail. It gets distracting and confusing.

[Lord Beerus]

Dragon Ball will survive just fine without Toriyama. Nothing will change. I mean, wasn't the purpose of the Dragon Ball to come ups with future projects for the franchise when Toriyama steps down? I mean as a there is a capable team of writers, animations, editors and series directors, potential future Dragon Ball material will be handled just fine.

[TheZFighter]

If/ when Toriyama decides to retire, I will continue to follow the Dragon Ball franchise with a completely open mind and will give it a fair chance.

[ekrolo2]

It'll probably get good or turn into total, insane shlock.

[funrush]

I'm on the "he already has" train. It seems like the last DB project he was passionate about was the U6 arc, and with the Black and Universe Tourney arcs he seems to just be throwing random ideas at the writers.

[dougo13]

Do any Manga artists ever retire? Miyazaki says he is retired from making movies but he has other stuff going on and sometimes helps out other directors. Tezuka died while still making stuff as did others like Shigeru Mizuki. Can't see Toriyama ever retiring really. Or do you mean just from Dragonball?

[sangofe]

When Toriyama steps down, Dragon Ball will go on. Even if the anime were to stop (it probably wouldn't, it'd just get a new subtitle), video games would keep coming. The Heroes manga and SD would keep going. Fans would still be here. Toyotaro would either be let go or reassigned to a new project
.

More probable he'd take over Dragon Ball I'd say, especially judging from the recent interview on YouTube.

[SaiyanGod117]

I'm on the "he already has" train. It seems like the last DB project he was passionate about was the U6 arc, and with the Black and Universe Tourney arcs he seems to just be throwing random ideas at the writers.

If the U6 arc is way of showing Toriyama being passionate and showing his newfound creativity, then it's a lot to be desired. Explicably, I can blame it all on the horrible production at the time,(Even though it's all Toe's fault) but still it was just a run-of-the-mill DB tournament.

[Cipher]

Nothing embarassing about not knowing an obscure industry term that to me, as non-native speaker, doesn't even read like a specific term and suggests the opposite of its meaning from the context, especially when you use an adjective prior. But going back to the topic which you of course avoided, neither western comics or Dragon Ball are complex pitches so why you even made the comparsion is puzzling. Similarly, mixing and utilizing tropes and entartainment stamples ain't unique to DB nor something that only Toriyama can get right. Giving other authors a chance to work within DB universe could provide a great deal of amazing stories and ideas as it did for many other fictional universes that allowed varied authors to pitch in. Especially with the recent expansion of the lore and worldbuilding that, ironically, makes DB more malleable than ever before.

I apologize. That was an uncalled for, flippant response. I had no idea you were a non-native speaker (to your great credit!). It isn't an obscure industry term, by the way, but a pretty regular phrase in discussing media and fiction. "High concept" stories are driven by the pitch or easily summarized concept.

The difference I intended to get at was the distinction many fans seem to lose when looking at what has worked in the form of endless franchise fiction, and what can't or shouldn't (though media trends have done their best to blur those sensibilities recently, which I also find frustrating). A Western superhero book like Batman is concept-based: "A man dresses up like a bat to avenge the night." Wonder Woman: "A feminist ideal as a superhero." X-Men: "Mutant superheroes band together to save the world that scorns them." They're concepts that aren't tied to an author and which can be endlessly reapplied to, and reimagined in, modern contexts.

Dragon Ball, by comparison, is a series comprised solely of borrowed tropes made iconic solely by the sensibilities and skills of its original author. There is no quick pitch that fully gets at its core appeals without mentioning (or failing to mention when it should) Toriyama. Its elements without its author are nothing original. It isn't something that can easily be stylistically re-imagined, or a core concept that can be reapplied to new eras and styles. Any continuation would have to be an emulation of Toriyama, which seems pointless.

[LuckyCat]

A high concept for Dragon Ball would be like "Kung-fu fighters battle over wish-granting artifacts". Which sounds like the pitch that brought about Dragon Ball: Evolution...

[Basaku]

I apologize. That was an uncalled for, flippant response. I had no idea you were a non-native speaker (to your great credit!). It isn't an obscure industry term, by the way, but a pretty regular phrase in discussing media and fiction. "High concept" stories are driven by the pitch or easily summarized concept.

The difference I intended to get at was the distinction many fans seem to lose when looking at what has worked in the form of endless franchise fiction, and what can't or shouldn't (though media trends have done their best to blur those sensibilities recently, which I also find frustrating). A Western superhero book like Batman is concept-based: "A man dresses up like a bat to avenge the night." Wonder Woman: "A feminist ideal as a superhero." X-Men: "Mutant superheroes band together to save the world that scorns them." They're concepts that aren't tied to an author and which can be endlessly reapplied to, and reimagined in, modern contexts.

Dragon Ball, by comparison, is a series comprised solely of borrowed tropes made iconic solely by the sensibilities and skills of its original author. There is no quick pitch that fully gets at its core appeals without mentioning (or failing to mention when it should) Toriyama. Its elements without its author are nothing original. It isn't something that can easily be stylistically re-imagined, or a core concept that can be reapplied to new eras and styles. Any continuation would have to be an emulation of Toriyama, which seems pointless.

"Dragon Ball: Fighters train, live their lives, grow & fight in an asian mythology & cultural influenced setting". X-Men comparsion is particularly fitting, you have a ton of different mutants and the only thing that ties them together is the initial genetic mutation, one so convinient it can give its hosts literally any superpower imaginable regardless of chemistry or physics. Plus, there's different factions of mutants and often infighting. Not to mention obvious allegories to real world social issues. So not as "simple" as your short summary made it seem to yet still perfectly simple pitch concept at the same time that can be expanded and continued-on indefinitely. Your own linked Wiki article admits it that most mass-sale popular fiction could be summarized in few words thus ironically falling under this definition of high-concept despite not strictly following an arbitary 'rule' of 1 question like say, "what if a man gets bitten by a mutant-spider?".

Now look at the state of Dragon Ball franchise & universe. "Fighters train, live their lives, grow & fight in an asian mythology & cultural influenced setting". Not a complex pitch at all. As with X-Men, it gets more complex the deeper you go, but again, still a simple sales pitch. And particularly with the current arc, we're at a point where the fighters posses all different and unrelated kinds of powers, attacks and energies, every universe can spawn a new character that's on the level of the main cast (or higher) and the only thing that still ties it together is the fighting theme and in-universe lore. Quite similar to X-Men. Super has moved Dragon Ball heavily into expanded universe territory and whether its by accident or design, it opens up endless possibilties for future stories and installements. More possibilites than neverending rehash of the same Bruce Wayne parents get killed story frankly. Seeing how X-Men makes it work and is one of the most popular western comicbook properties out there, I fail to see why would Dragon Ball not work like this.

[Cipher]

"Dragon Ball: Fighters train, live their lives, grow & fight in an asian mythology & cultural influenced setting".

That describes literally any number of wuxia/martial-arts stories though -- it basically identifies the kind of material Dragon Ball draws from without identifying Dragon Ball. I think the most holistic/accurate you can be with an elevator pitch for Dragon Ball is "long-form wuxia story by the guy who made Dr. Slump," and that still requires invoking the author/style.

X-Men comparsion is particularly fitting, you have a ton of different mutants and the only thing that ties them together is the initial genetic mutation, one so convinient it can give its hosts literally any superpower imaginable regardless of chemistry or physics. Plus, there's different factions of mutants and often infighting. Not to mention obvious allegories to real world social issues.

That's exactly what I was saying though. Its simple premise allows for endless reinvention in any number of eras or styles. The core elements of that property are driven by its simple, powerful concept, rather than by a particular author's execution.

Dragon Ball is defined by one author's style. When you attempt to describe it without acknowledging that, you wind up describing the things it draws from.

What is the difference between Dragon Ball and a bog-standard wuxia story? Toriyama. Which is why I say any ongoing material is faced with either having to not be immediately recognizable as Dragon Ball, in which case it may as well be something else with freedom to fit the author's vision, or a Toriyama emulation, which is unexciting at best.