Caulifa is a threat to Goku.

[Kishido]

What bad drawing? it was painfully obvious she was SSJ2.

Dunno either... Even more funny if you compare it to Goku's SSJ hair... More or less the same.

But people always need the lightning to show up...

[MagmonKai]

Apparently there is a pic with her with lightning...so yeah it needs to show up. Its the defining trait of SSJ2!

[BlueBasilisk]

Apparently there is a pic with her with lightning...so yeah it needs to show up. Its the defining trait of SSJ2!

There is:
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Lord Beerus]

Caulifa is only one back-tingling sensation away from Super Saiyan 3.

[Kastex]

okay well... it's clear she made the jump to ss2 on complete accident without even noticing (which is insane, bullshit, and complete plot convenience. though i think it's so awesome that i don't even care), so let's call it even. i wasn't entirely wrong, and you guys weren't entirely right. seems like a fair compromise to me

[TBMx]

okay well... it's clear she made the jump to ss2 on complete accident without even noticing (which is insane, bullshit, and complete plot convenience. though i think it's so awesome that i don't even care), so let's call it even. i wasn't entirely wrong, and you guys weren't entirely right. seems like a fair compromise to me

You said she wasn't SS2. How were you not entirely wrong? You couldn't be more off base. At least you admit it now, Geekdom 101 still says she might not be SS2 even after episode 93. Which is the dumbest thing I've heard from him to date.

[Cabba]

Nope not at all, Goku, Vegeta and even Gohan are on whole different level
Besides this SSJ2 thing is being given too much importance. In DBS SSJ and SSJ2 are one of the same, SSJ2 just being full power so to speak
Caulifla reaching SS(2) is not surprising but expected. Cabba should have gotten it as well if he was fighting evenly with Vegeta on his base form back in U6 arc
U6 Saiyans in base form are way stronger than Goku and Co where when they first turned SSJ. Its only natural they will be super strong as SSJ, they just never discovered SSJ before

Having said all that Kale might hold her own against Gohan, I still see Gohan coming on top though

[buutenks]

Caulifla a threat to Goku? Lol, amusing. Goku does a IT behind her and karate chops her into unconsciousness. Jiren is the on!y one who is a threat to Goku. Everyone else its a walk in the park.

[GodKaio-Ken]

okay well... it's clear she made the jump to ss2 on complete accident without even noticing (which is insane, bullshit, and complete plot convenience. though i think it's so awesome that i don't even care), so let's call it even. i wasn't entirely wrong, and you guys weren't entirely right. seems like a fair compromise to me

You said she wasn't SS2. How were you not entirely wrong? You couldn't be more off base. At least you admit it now, Geekdom 101 still says she might not be SS2 even after episode 93. Which is the dumbest thing I've heard from him to date.

Eh they have used lightning in the past to indicate extreme power outside SSJ2 in anime.

I do think its SSJ2 but theres always a chance it isnt until they actually mention it. Which I think might be at the tounament by Vegeta or Gohan.

[Kishido]

Eh they have used lightning in the past to indicate extreme power outside SSJ2 in anime.

I do think its SSJ2 but theres always a chance it isnt until they actually mention it. Which I think might be at the tounament by Vegeta or Gohan.

The sky is blue but until no one mention it I won't believe it.

Same goes for Kale and her Broly transformation... just because some non canon Jump scans said it I won't believe it is related to Broly

[Saturnine]

Nope not at all, Goku, Vegeta and even Gohan are on whole different level
Besides this SSJ2 thing is being given too much importance. In DBS SSJ and SSJ2 are one of the same, SSJ2 just being full power so to speak
Caulifla reaching SS(2) is not surprising but expected. Cabba should have gotten it as well if he was fighting evenly with Vegeta on his base form back in U6 arc
U6 Saiyans in base form are way stronger than Goku and Co where when they first turned SSJ. Its only natural they will be super strong as SSJ, they just never discovered SSJ before

Having said all that Kale might hold her own against Gohan, I still see Gohan coming on top though

Bro, blame the Super Exciting Guide, which puts SSj2 only at 2x SSj. That's a ridiculously low jump, considering that:

SSj2 Gohan > Power Weighted Cell > Full Power Perfect Cell > Powered up Perfect Cell > SSj Goku

It's obvious to me that at the time of writing this scene, Gohan's power increase was supposed to be way beyond 2x, all things considered. In DB Super SSj2 doesn't look impressive anymore, either because of the writers proceeding as if it was 2x or other reasons. I agree that the difference in power between it and SSj is no longer properly outlined. it doesn't feel special at all.

[Helios518]

They never actually trained to get to Super Saiyan 2. Goten and Trunks are both lazy children.

Actually, besides one instance in the Copy Vegeta Arc it seems like Goku and Vegeta's base forms have been officially retconned back to their Buu Saga versions. Or heck, they could have just not used their God Base.

Even if you want to ignore the Copy Vegeta incident, there's still three incidents that show that Base Goku far above his Boo Saga self

1) Current SSJ2 Goku was fighting on par with an even stronger Ultimate Gohan. That's a feat Goku could only pull off if his power got multiplied by double digits since Boo Saga.

2) Another thing would be an all-out Hit (also improved in power since Champa arc stated by Goku) stating that his time-skip wouldn't work on an SSJB Goku despite in the Champa Arc, it worked on SSJBKKx10 Goku just fine later on. Meaning Goku got more than 10x stronger than his Champa arc self.

3) Last thing, SSJ Present Trunks visibly tired and worn out against Base Future Trunks who looks fine besides a few scratches. Keep in mind that Future Trunks can't possibly be using a god base. Obviously Base Goku should be around Base Trunks in power in the same form.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Eh they have used lightning in the past to indicate extreme power outside SSJ2 in anime.

I do think its SSJ2 but theres always a chance it isnt until they actually mention it. Which I think might be at the tounament by Vegeta or Gohan.

The sky is blue but until no one mention it I won't believe it.

Same goes for Kale and her Broly transformation... just because some non canon Jump scans said it I won't believe it is related to Broly

If the sky was green on occasion you might pause though...which is the point. I already said I agree it is.

[TBMx]

There is no doubt that Caulifla is a SS2. Not only because of the lightning and hairstyle designed after SSJ2 Goku, but because she clearly massively outclasses SS Cabba by deflecting Kales blast with one hand. Whereas Cabba said SS Caulifla MIGHT be able to beat him, and she said she PROBABLY could. So the gap between SS Caulifla and SS Cabba is not that big.

Despite the deflection, I still have Kale above SS2 Caulifla. Especially if SS2 if merely a 2x increase. Which I always found to be ridiculous as well.

Ultimately if Super if willing to have some nothing character like Android 17 be a match for Goku Blue, from ranger park training, there's no reason they wouldn't have the U6 saiyans be either. What I'm actually surprised by is that Cabba hasn't told Caulifla about SS Blue. He knows about it, and the very least, her and Kale should know about it in order to know it's coming. Especially in a tournament of strategy.

PS. It was obvious to me that Kale lost it at the prospect that Caulifla would ditch her as a protege and go off with the already super saiyan Cabba instead. She already had that anxiety of holding Caulifla back before Cabba called her a worthless pathetic saiyan. So it's more hurtful her "replacement" calling her that. I don't see where people are getting the idea that she has a crush on Cabba or Caulifla as it wasn't that which turned her normal, it was Caulifla calling Kale her amazing protege.

[Lord Frieza]

Unchecked growth could prove her downfall.

She's jumping levels in a short space of time and has zero combat experience with them. That could come back to bite her. Especially if she pushes it to SS3.

[Cabba]

Bro, blame the Super Exciting Guide, which puts SSj2 only at 2x SSj. That's a ridiculously low jump, considering that:
SSj2 Gohan > Power Weighted Cell > Full Power Perfect Cell > Powered up Perfect Cell > SSj Goku
It's obvious to me that at the time of writing this scene, Gohan's power increase was supposed to be way beyond 2x, all things considered. In DB Super SSj2 doesn't look impressive anymore, either because of the writers proceeding as if it was 2x or other reasons. I agree that the difference in power between it and SSj is no longer properly outlined. it doesn't feel special at all.

Which guide? I dont really follow "guides", use mostly anime and manga as source material. Post final form frieza i think multipliers are not adequate anymore
Back on point, remember that BoGs Toriyamas interview where he said Goku would focus on his base form and SSJ forms as a better way to get more powerful, that SSj3 4 and such weren't relevant anymore. I think thats whats going on here, we the fans call it SSJ2 when in reality its just a more powerful SSJ or full power if you will. The only episode where they reference SSJ2 and 3 is on that sparring match with Trunks which i believe was for fan service more than anything.

So in essence thats just mean Caulifla is just a very powerful SSJ or SSJ2 if you will, its natural she would be since she was supposed to be stronger than his brother which was Cabbas master

So thats what i think, there is no traditional SSJ2 anymore. The form itself its just SSJ pushed to the limits so to speak. To make an analogy: Like when goky went full power against cell he started glowing, of course DBS SSJ(2) is way more powerful than that

They never actually trained to get to Super Saiyan 2. Goten and Trunks are both lazy children.

Actually, besides one instance in the Copy Vegeta Arc it seems like Goku and Vegeta's base forms have been officially retconned back to their Buu Saga versions. Or heck, they could have just not used their God Base.

Even if you want to ignore the Copy Vegeta incident, there's still three incidents that show that Base Goku far above his Boo Saga self...

It was always a silly comment from the get go, people who for some unknown reason hold Majin Saga or even Namek saga as the barometer for base form power. Like how the hell is your SSJ form gonna get stronger and not your base form

A few examples to add to yours
Gokus Fight with Bergamo holding his own in base form. The strongest of the brothers
Base Goku fight against Gohan in episode 90, Gohan base form was already boosted at this point to near his ultimate self his Ultimate form is even more powerful than it was in Majin Saga
Base Goku being able to spar with Hit to get a feel of Timeskip, taking hits and such

All this points to base goku and vegeta being anywhere from perfect cell to majin vegeta tier if not higher

[BlueBasilisk]

What if instead of Super Saiyan 3, Caulifla gets Super Raiyan Rage?

[Saturnine]

Which guide? I dont really follow "guides", use mostly anime and manga as source material. Post final form frieza i think multipliers are not adequate anymore

It's called the SEG, came out in 2007 if I'm not mistaken - it's THE source of people saying SSj is always 50x, SSj2 is 2x SSj and SSj3 is 4x SSj2. A lot of people treat it way too seriously and even bend manga logic to fit it. Guess it's convenience over logic, dunno.

Back on point, remember that BoGs Toriyamas interview where he said Goku would focus on his base form and SSJ forms as a better way to get more powerful, that SSj3 4 and such weren't relevant anymore.

SSj2 and 3, not SSj3 and 4. Anyway, these words by Toriyama were meant to signify the shift towards a godly-empowered base form and SSj Blue, which was demonstrated in the RoF arc. Sadly, they've retconned it, and we can only guess why. My guesses are marketability and nostalgia fanservice (people still want the old SSj forms on Goku and Vegeta), as well as drama preservation - base Goku and Vegeta with the powers of SSj God were severely overpowered and it would therefore be hard to make it believable for them to fight seriously. Also less interesting for all those kids addicted to transformations to see them only modify their power instead of transforming.

But this has no bearing on the standings between SSj and SSj2. Caulifla is a legit SSj2 alright, she has everything that signifies it, bot the hair and the aura. I don't think there's much room for arguing this, honestly.

[Kishido]

Eh they have used lightning in the past to indicate extreme power outside SSJ2 in anime.

I do think its SSJ2 but theres always a chance it isnt until they actually mention it. Which I think might be at the tounament by Vegeta or Gohan.

The sky is blue but until no one mention it I won't believe it.

Same goes for Kale and her Broly transformation... just because some non canon Jump scans said it I won't believe it is related to Broly

If the sky was green on occasion you might pause though...which is the point. I already said I agree it is.

"theres always a chance it isnt until they actually mention it."

[Cabba]

It's called the SEG, came out in 2007 if I'm not mistaken - it's THE source of people saying SSj is always 50x, SSj2 is 2x SSj and SSj3 is 4x SSj2. A lot of people treat it way too seriously and even bend manga logic to fit it. Guess it's convenience over logic, dunno.

Well whatever is called i dont put any weight on such guides, the power levels and multipliers are not adequate anymore

SSj2 and 3, not SSj3 and 4. Anyway, these words by Toriyama were meant to signify the shift towards a godly-empowered base form and SSj Blue, which was demonstrated in the RoF arc.

Not really you can find the translation here:
"Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength"
This was meant to show bigger progress while on base form and using SSJ as a boost. This is also referenced when whiss told Vegeta he would teach him a different more efficient way to use his ki that if he learned it he could defeat anyone even Goku. This also explains why they got so strong in their base forms even now. Its not necessarily tied to the God base form and SSB

Sadly, they've retconned it, and we can only guess why. My guesses are marketability and nostalgia fanservice (people still want the old SSj forms on Goku and Vegeta), as well as drama preservation - base Goku and Vegeta with the powers of SSj God were severely overpowered and it would therefore be hard to make it believable for them to fight seriously. Also less interesting for all those kids addicted to transformations to see them only modify their power instead of transforming.

I agree with this, but they didnt retconn it completely they went to a middle ground:
1. Goku and Vegeta base form is still pretty powerful Majin Vegeta tier at least
2. They use SSJ and SSJ2 as the replacement for their previous "God base form"

So basically they use SSJ2 art direction to signify a full power SSJ or a more powerful SSJ, the SSJ2 art direction is more than anything nostalgia and fan service like you said.
But in practical terms for DBS SSJ1 and SSJ2 are the same transformation, the latter just being more powerful state

But this has no bearing on the standings between SSj and SSj2. Caulifla is a legit SSj2 alright, she has everything that signifies it, bot the hair and the aura. I don't think there's much room for arguing this, honestly

She has the state alright i never denied it, I'm just chiming in with a different optic: SSJ1 and SSJ2 are one of the same in Super, think Cell saga ssj Goku regular state vs full power
But in order to get this more powerful state you have to go beyond the ordinary SSJ power lv which Caulifla has and Cabba might or might not have