Dragon Ball as a series of fantasy novels?

[Sebastian (SB)]

It's not only in ADV's subs, but the G Gundam subs of Bandai Entertainment as well. For example, when Domon addresses his Brother as "Nii-san" which would literally translate as "Brother" (if I'm not mistaken), but instead they would go on ahead & translate "Nii-san" as "Kyoji" which is just wrong. These subs were taken from earlier episodes before we even get to know Domon's brother actual name "Kyoji" in the later episodes (or the episodes following the former).

But yeah, I agree with desire. They're just some instances when translating a name just doesn't feel right. On the other hand, I do agree with with Rocketman says as well regarding translating "Sama" as "Lord". In the end, they're just some things better left with Honorifics, because at some points it just feels confusing.

[Taku128]

Sounds cool. Only idea I have right now is maybe have Shuu/Soba be the pupil of Murasaki. They're both ninja, they both wear purple, and in your story they're both members of the Red Ribbon Army, so it could work. Also, make sure you don't forget about Lunch like Toriyama did once you get to Z.

[kinoko]

Seconding Sebastian on this. In some cases, I'm pretty much against using honorifics in translations.

However (using my fave characters as one example, ftw), Chaozu's oft-uttered "Ten-san" should never be changed to "Mr. Ten." It's because the use of -san in this case is different, in connotation/meaning, from the typical translation. You could argue that as long as the context is understood, that "Mr. Ten" is OK. ...But it still feels awkward, to me at least.

For the fantasy novel... I guess just stick with one thing consistently. I don't know what else to say. ><;;

[Dragon Ball Daisuki]

Ahh, lots to discuss tonight..!

-ON THE JAPANESE LANGUAGE-

Since I've been watching my favorite shonen in Japanese, I must agree, honourifics add a whole new intersting layer of meaning to any given encounter. They supply us with valuable information regarding a character's temperment, personality, and relationship to anothercharacter. I think we can all agree on this. The English language contains speech patterns of many different languages, and continues to absorb speech patterns from developing cultures over the years, but it would never strike me as unnatural to see the word "dude" in a book about surfers, "shit" in a book about frustrated artists, or the dreaded "n-word" in a book about modern-day gangsters.

For the uninitiated, sure, it will be unfamiliar territory; but deal with it. Perhaps I'll insert a quick guide in the front of the book.

So honourifics are in, but for the love of Science, you'll never find a kuso, nani, or kawaii in this entire work.


-ON PILAF and THE RED RIBBON ARMY-

Pilaf doesn't work for the RRA but with them. Sort of a "you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" kind of situation. He gives them land in his teritory to use for bases and such, they use their might to keep his people in line, etc. Just my thoughts.

Originally, I couldn't get on one side of the fence and wanted to leave this aspect open-ended. In the end, I decided simplicty was the win, and decided Pilaf needs to be part of the Red Ribbon Army, or else he really doesn't work as a proper introduction to the organization. The idea of Pilaf as a political ally gives me a good vibe, but the main problem with the situation is that it would likely necessitate the presence of other Red Ribbon personnel in his land... meaning Red would be informed every step of the way... meaning a large-scale betrayal would be almost impossible to pull off.

Political allies just aren't very trustworthy. It might just be better to keep Pilaf as a an officer with proven integrity and loyalty; that way, Red can just supply him with his men and look the other way. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but I can't commit to it fully.

How about they make Pilaf a sort of "honorary member". IF we go this route, then we have to re-write General White as coveting, not Pilaf's sucess, but his friendship with Red. Perhaps he used to be Red's number one buddy? The idea has merit, but needs work.


-ON GYUMAO's LOYALTIES-

Actually... I think having Gyu-mao out of the control of the RRA could prove to be quite useful. Though now that I think about it, one of the main functions of that role that comes to mind seems like it could be served by Kamehouse just as easily... Hmm... I don't know!

Hmm... Gyumao's castle as a stronghold or refuge from the RRA (especially after Piccolo takes over)? The idea has merit. The only problem is that you'd have to find a way to get around Kame-sennin destroying his castle for it to work. I'd love for Gyumao's castle to be the official meeting place in times of war. A precursor to Kami-sama's temple/palace/sanctuary/whatever the hell you'd consider it? Coo.

You were on to something with Tenshinhan, I believe, but I'm not sure what. Keep thinking about it.

My thought is that like the others I'm putting under Pilaf's jurisdiction - Yamucha, Oolong, and Toninjinka - they choose to abandon their post for our heroes' cause (well, two out of three ain't bad! ). He can serve that very same function after he makes the hard choice and stands against the military might of Commander Red. Perhaps the RRA threatened Chi-chi's livelihood? That would be proper motivation.


-ON THE RED RIBBON ARMY ITSELF-

Does Colonel Silver having a one-armed chair in his office or how Commander Red writes with a quill pen count as obscure facts?

Indeed, these are precisely the sort of juicy tidbits I was fishing for! Now, onto issues regarding the RR's origin...

They come across as sort of a mix of a world conquest organization and the mafia. So, even before hunting the DBs they were always out for world domination. And to obtain the funds for such a large scale goal they're involved in pretty much everything illegal. I can also see them as 'hiring out' some of their more skilled opperatives to individuals for various tasks. Protection, assassination, etc, as a means of income.

This is intriguing (sp?) backstory, and admittedly I never made the connection. I always assumed everything was much more orderly in the Dragon World, even if crime did exist. I envisioned the RRA as closer to a secret society or cult; they have always lived on the fringes of society while having their hands in every major political/social decision at the same time. The rules never really applied to them. By the time Book One takes place, they've finally decided to make their move (under Piccolo Daimao's guidance, of course) and wage war on the World.

But a glorified mob society fits that function as well, I'd imagine. It's definitely an interesting notion.

As for what they were doing before, wasn't there this time when they were fighting with Capsule Corp. over the auto industry or something?

This, on the other hand, is a FASCINATING notion. Though I always got the feeling there was some history between the Red Ribbon Army and Capsule Corporation, I don't recall it ever being directly addressed. IF you could extrapolate on this point on your own a little bit, I would be very interested to see what you come up with.


-ON KURIRIN's FATE-

Dragon Ball Daisuki, I rather like your thoughts on how to include Krillin. I was thinking similar. Along the lines that the temple had a DB, it got stolen and he feels responsible (maybe because he was too scared to try and stop them from taking it) so he sets out to get it back and runs across Goku and Co. in the process, since they're largely out for the same thing.

A rather interesting narrative, I'm definitely going to incorporate Kuririn losing the ball directly, due to his cowardice. However I see it more of as Kuririn dealing with White's forces, while Goku deals with Pilaf's. They meet up around the time Kame-sennin is introduced, and the story continues from there. While Pilaf's methods would be civilized and even diplomatic, White would take a much more desperate and merciless approach. This characterizes each hero differently, as well as give Pilaf motivation for going against Red (he realises that most of the RRA are barbarians like White and would simply have no place in his vision for a clean, pure world).

I see Kuririn's arc as going something like this:

1. Kuririn is selected by the Master of Orinji Temple to be trained directly, due to his keen perception of ki. He's not popular with the other students due to his age, and they bully him over the course of the next eight years.

2. One day, General White and his men attack Orinji Temple. Kuririn, who is with the Master, is isolated from the rest of the monks. Due to his cowardice (think Son Gohan in the early Saiya-jin arc), he is unable to protect his master or the temple's prized posession -- the Dragon Ball. The Master is killed in battle, but before he goes he instructs Kuririn to enlist the help of Kame-sennin, an old friend. He is said to be the strongest man on Earth, a man whose name implies "heavenly warrior" ... and he is the only one who can stop the Red Ribbon Army. Kuririn escapes with this mission.

3. Without the Master to organize them, the rest of the monks are easily hunted down and imprisoned. White and his men make a settlement, and a situation occurs not unlike that in Jingle Village - under White's iron fist and careful surveillance, the men are forced to look for the Dragon Balls while the women and children are put under house arrest. These prisoners of war would be bitter towards Kuririn, the wonder-boy who managed to shirk his way out of his fate once again.

Whoo! And I think that's all for tonight. As always, keep those ideas rolling!

[Magic Saiya-jin]

I don't think it's that great of an idea to make an action novel based on a manga.

[caejones]

Generally, maybe, but the way the DB story works makes it seem plenty possible... and I'm liking where DragonballDaisuki's ideas are going. So I'd say it's worth a shot!


And... some Tenshinhan + RRA stuff came to mind while I was replying to the Tenshinhan's Past thread, but I'm not really sure how I can add to it here without just repeating the same thing...

Though, now I'm wondering about Chaozu... *headspin*

[Rocketman]

Since I've been watching my favorite shonen in Japanese, I must agree, honourifics add a whole new intersting layer of meaning to any given encounter. They supply us with valuable information regarding a character's temperment, personality, and relationship to anothercharacter.

Can this information be supplied in no other way?

If your main contention is that it would be odd for a English speaking character to routinely use non-English words, then you might be concerned to learn that we all use non-English words all the time, or at least words that are not of English origin. English is basically a cobbled together slosh of French, German and Latin.

Well, duh. But those words have been absorbed into English. 'Sensei' is the only one of the JPN honorifics that has done that, IMO.

Also, English is a child language of German, but it would still be odd for a story full of English-speakers to use 'Herr' and 'Frau'.

Plus, most of the character names are Japanese - so it's not like there won't be any Japanese words. Unless you also think we should call the characters 'Tea' and 'Rice dish' and 'Tea' (again).

Those are names, though, like 'Mark'.

So honourifics are in, but for the love of Science, you'll never find a kuso, nani, or kawaii in this entire work.

Thank goodness.

[Dragon Ball Daisuki]

Guys, we have some candidates for Book One's title:

The Legend of Shenlong
Hero of Light
The Monkey Boy
The Children and the War
Fantasy, Love and Mystery
Sparkling, Shining Dream
Mystical Adventure
The World's Most Awesome Drama
The Dragon Ball Legend

I want a title that properly reflects the books themes/atmosphere. One of the themes, which I haven't mentioned before, is self-reliance. I want the book to end on a high note, as Bulma realizes she doesn't need Shenlong to fix her boy troubles, Yamucha realizes he doesn't need Shenlong to conquer his fears, and Kuririn realizes he doesn't need Shenlong to be strong; it's a way of rejecting quick-fixes in a society where everything can be given to you in a pill, and to choose to trust in your heart anyway.

But the title should perhaps subtley reflect that. It should also reflect the romance of adventure prevelant through the early chapters of the manga/DB character songs. Too, it needs address the bigger picture (the eventual conflict with the RRA/Piccolo Daimao), if at all possible, but should not detract from its essential nature ... a story about collecting DRAGON BALLS to get a wish out of SHENLONG.

Alternatively, each novel could describe the main villain. Off the top of my head, "The Demon Purist and His Elderly Rival". Something like that, except not so... ill-conceived. Anyways, use some of the phrases I listed above to get the ball rolling. Think about it.


----> LUNCH

Now that we've settled on a decent backstory for Kuririn, we need to focus on a way to get Lunch into the story (another important character more or less attached to the 21st Tenka-ichi Budoukai, which we're breezing over here).

I have a couple of ideas for her, none of them fleshed out too much.

1. Kuririn could meet her on his journey (seperate from Goku) and the two of them could set out for the Dragon Balls.

2. At some point in the story, our heroes could be captured, and meet Lunch in prison. They help her escape, not knowing how dangerous she is. (Something about seeing Lunch's docile form in a high-security prison cell fives me a warm fuzzy)

3. Lunch could be an officer of the RRA who either gets bored and becomes a renegade or tries to steal something valuable from the organization (like Violet did at the end of the arc) and thus becomes a fugitive.

I'm most partial to Plotpoint 1, as it would create a kind of "Parellel Team Goku" with Lunch becoming the equivalent of Bulma, and Kuririn being the equivalent to Goku. From there, it would not be hard to include Tenshinhan and Chaozu as the equivalents to Yamucha and Pu'er (maybe?). This might create problems for the story, however. It's an immensely interesting idea, though!

It would probably be best to merge Plotpoints 1 and 3, in order to avoid a situation where one more person knows about the Dragon Balls. After all, Kuririn's initial objective is to protect his village from the RRA, so if Lunch had a personal vendetta against them, that would be even better. Her motivation SHOULD be RRA-related, really.

On the other hand, Plotpoint 2 gives us an interesting alternative if we wanted to focus less on Kuririn and more on Goku and company. Lunch wouldn't be introduced until very late in the book however. Arrghh. What do you guys think??

0_0

[Eat Snow]

Does Colonel Silver having a one-armed chair in his office or how Commander Red writes with a quill pen count as obscure facts?

Indeed, these are precisely the sort of juicy tidbits I was fishing for! Now, onto issues regarding the RR's origin...

In that case I'll just start listing the random things I've noticed. Most of these are jokes, but...:
• Commander Red's way of giving people haircuts: knives. (in reference to the fact that, as seen during his brief meeting with Silver, he randomly chucks knives at people.)
• Colonel Violet has a thing for monkeys. (or at least animals. She goes out of her way to catch a wounded monkey and comfort it, yet tosses two of her men to a hungry alligator. I think she has priority problems. She also likes money.)
• General Blue has something against roses. (every time one is in his hand he crushes it)
• Silver boxes with his eyes closed.
• General White is extremely protective of his sisters. (his English self, at least, because the two women in the photograph Murasaki dropped weren't originally his sisters (I think), just as Blue didn't have a brother and Black didn't have a sister in the original versions (though that last one could make for some very interesting dilemmas, as I recall Red saying something along the lines of "If you had trained those men properly we wouldn't be having this problem! Honestly, I should have never listened to your sister!"))
• General White likes making references to food.
• Not only do Colonel Silver and Bora have the same Japanese voice actor, they also have the same scar.
• General Blue has been attacked by a Girl Scout at least once. (English line, "a Girl Scout could put up a better fight than you! Believe me I know!")
• General Blue has a problem recognizing faces. (this is, again, just a reference to the English version where Blue mistook...what's his name...the Obatcho man? ...for being his younger brother, Samuel.)
• Commander Red has a lot of hobbies. (Golf, chess, pool, and pinball.)
• There are lots of yellow soldier tigers in the Red Ribbon Army. I counted six.
• Commander Red created this gigantic, universally feared, ruthless militaristic crime organization...to get back at his classmates for calling him short. [Reference: read pg. 154-155, Dragonball manga volume 8. There is the proof.]
• General Blue likes tea.
• Colonel Yellow is the only RRA tiger seen that doesn't have yellow fur. Funny that.
• For the Red Ribbon Army HQ being the base of operation for a gigantic, universally feared, ruthless militaristic crime organization of pure unadulterated evil, there are certainly a lot of trees, potted plants, and pool tables lying around.
• There are lots of pirate fanatics in the Red Ribbon Army. Or at least a lot of soldiers at home base with eye patches, captain hats, and the skull and cross bone tattoo on their shoulders.
• Colonel Silver, in addition to the one-armed chair, also has a TV. And an apparent like of subdued colors, as aside from the yellow sheets of his bed and the black and red radio communicator, everything is either white or blue, and aside from the scarf [and the boxing shorts], all he wears is blue.
• At Muscle Tower, apparently the soldiers have enough free time so as to build a frowning snowman and randomly place a bucket on its head.
• Colonel Silver didn't even get to finish his morning coffee before Goku showed up.
• Commander Red also has a teal phone on his desk.
• Why does the Briefs family have a picture of Metallic without sunglasses in their home? [Pictoral reference: http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1464 ... licvl3.jpg ]
• Despite popular belief, GOKU DID NOT KILL THE ENTIRE ARMY. Many of the soldiers fled the base - I think Yamcha even pointed it out. Many of the officer's fates were unconfirmed (Yellow just fell out of his plane, Silver walked out the door, White was blasted off into the sky, Violet flew off, and Copper was mentioned but never seen (as was Brown in the anime)), plus it's quite possible that the army extended far beyond what we saw, so there could have been, for example, a Sergeant Major Azure, a Staff Sergeant Orange, a General Onyx, people like that.

As for what they were doing before, wasn't there this time when they were fighting with Capsule Corp. over the auto industry or something?

This, on the other hand, is a FASCINATING notion. Though I always got the feeling there was some history between the Red Ribbon Army and Capsule Corporation, I don't recall it ever being directly addressed. IF you could extrapolate on this point on your own a little bit, I would be very interested to see what you come up with.

The only thing I can deduct from this is that when C.C. completely obliterated them, maybe that's one of the factors that led to the army's creation (aside from Red being picked on in the past and all that).

EDIT:
As far as titles for Book One goes, I quite like The Children and the War.

[Xyex]

Well, duh. :p But those words have been absorbed into English. 'Sensei' is the only one of the JPN honorifics that has done that, IMO.

Also, English is a child language of German, but it would still be odd for a story full of English-speakers to use 'Herr' and 'Frau'.

You're looking at this from the wrong angle. If you write a story set in Japan, with Japanese characters, who all speak Japanese all the time, and use honorifics, then, well, you should write them as using honorifics, yes? Dragonworld may not have a Japan but it is Japan when it comes to language. Thus the people of Dragonworld use honorifics.

Why does the Briefs family have a picture of Metallic without sunglasses in their home? [Pictoral reference: http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1464 ... licvl3.jpg ]

I find that image funny more for what's happening than the sunglasses-less Metallic.

[caejones]

Oy oy oy! What a day for my computer to go into a coma...
Ttles... Hmm... I might just have to annotate each one to get an idea of what I like best, so I'll just... umm... rarely comment on the title. ^^.

I find the whole parallel teams idea (Goku, Bulma, Yamcha and Puar= Kuririn, Lunch, Ten and Chaozu) to be pretty interesting... but I'm not sure how that would work without excessive PoV-jumping. I'm not sure how you want to handle PoV... though...
Yeah, what point of view are we looking at? Meepity! *imagines rando second-person scenes for no reason* *then tries to imagine literarily useful reasons for them* *then realizes that is in a very impatient mood due to lots of stuff (such as randomly being upgraded to IE7 despite it contradicting some important software) and shouldn't try to revive a topic that has had such a well-thought-out conversation i this condition* *but certainly would like to see if anything new has been thought of in the past week*

... :'(

[DNA]

Will the movies be integrated into the whole story? Most of them you can if you give or take a few things.

[Dragon Ball Daisuki]

Hey guys. Sorry I've been neglecting this thread lately, but this whole past week my internet has been down. The last time I posted on the forums I was in a library, and even now the connection's iffy. I'll probably swing by Best Buy tomorrow night and get a new router.

Back to Dragon Ball.

Or more accurately, to the Dragon Ball novel that dances in my brain (working title: The Children and the War). Will the movies be integrated into the story? Yes and no. Elements of the movies will be present in the appropriate storyline, but you won't see us taking a break from the Pilaf story to tackle Lucifer. On the other hand, concepts in the DB Movies obviously go a long way to influence the storyline, with Kuririn's arc being almost identical to Panji/Pansy in Movie 1, though in a different context. When we get to Tenshinhan, his arc will borrow heavily from DB Movie 3, though he won't *actually* be a bodyguard to "Emperor" Chaozu. And Tsuru-sennin won't be a, ahem... minister... or whatever, but he'll fill a similar "two-timing advisor" role with the Red Ribbon Army.

But when you get to DBZ and you have these enemies that couldn't possibly fit in the existing timeline... it creates issues. If the stories have sufficient character development and actually challenge the story, sure, I'll do my best to inject it in the narrative (though probably not as a seperate storyline; more within the context of an existing one), but I won't go out of my way to give Garlic Jr. and Dr. Uiro their spot in the sun.

Once again, caejones, I'm grateful for your encouragement, and er... scattered thoughts. They always give me a jolt of creativity, like that first cup of coffee in the morning. I'm going to start working on something resembling a scriptment soon (basically, a writing that would describe the story of a film, as opposed to a script which actually presents the film; a scriptment might say a man and his brother argue -- a script gives you their dialogue), so you'll be the first to know when that gets done.

The "Dragon Ball Teams" concept is one that I find both interesting and problematic. The necessary back-and-forth to make it consistent takes focus that should be centered on Goku and Pilaf and distributes it to secondary characters. Second-person narration, in all its limited use, might be interesting to consider, though I'm sure it would be entirely too thoughtful way of narration for someone like Son Goku... or it could be exceedingly fun. You'd have to sell me on it.

But like I said, Kuririn/Lunch shouldn't be a focal point; it should just sort of be in the back of our minds. We see him start out, then a little later meet Lunch. But by and large, they'll mostly be just mentioned when we have a scene with White (Kuririn is the thorn in White's side as Goku is the thorn in Pilaf's side). We won't dwell on Kuririn's story too much though, it just serves to give him a backstory that can be explored more fully in future installments. Like I said, it might actually be easier to introduce Lunch near the end as someone whom the main characters meet during their captivity, but a large part of me can't let go of the "Dragon Ball Teams" concpet. >.<

On the subject of the Great Honourifics Debate: I think it's not so much an issue of finding accurate translations (admittedly, Funi's "King Kai" and Viz's "Lord of the Worlds" are both pretty close to the original "Kaiou-sama"), but rather an issue of... character quirks. My thoughts gravitate generally towards Son Goku, and his backwards/disrespectful way of addressing people (as contrasted, humorously enough, by his own son's speech), including but not limited to his own grandfather/caretaker. My understanding on the subject is that older men are typically referred to as "Jii-san". An alternative used to show deep respect is "Ojii-san". But Son Goku uses... "Jiit-chan"...? Wait, what??

He can't even pronounce the core word properly, but more to the point, he uses an honourific typically associated with little girls or children to describe his grandfather. To me this speaks volumes concerning their relationship. Even in Daimao's subs, the closest translation we can get is "Gramps" "Old-timer" or "Pops" ... which is all well and good, but lacks that extra depth.

What's more, when Goku actually does use the right form of a word (I'm thinking the initial SSJ transformation here), it makes him seem all the more authoritative and serious.

This aspect, I feel, cannot be translated.

That's all for right now guys. I'll have an actual update a little bit later.

[Rocketman]

He can't even pronounce the core word properly, but more to the point, he uses an honourific typically associated with little girls or children to describe his grandfather. To me this speaks volumes concerning their relationship. Even in Daimao's subs, the closest translation we can get is "Gramps" "Old-timer" or "Pops" ... which is all well and good, but lacks that extra depth.

Maybe I'm just being dense, but I don't see "that extra depth". He's being informal to a person usually given respect in either case. And, hell, he's been living almost since birth with this guy and no one else, why wouldn't he be informal?

What's more, when Goku actually does use the right form of a word (I'm thinking the initial SSJ transformation here), it makes him seem all the more authoritative and serious.

This aspect, I feel, cannot be translated.

Go from dialect English to more proper English. Drop contractions, add the 'd' or 't' back on the end of words, etc.

[Thanos6]

Like how Daimao had Freeza be contraction-less up till near the end of the fight when he was starting to really get angry...

[Acid_Reign]

I agree with Rocketman.

Now, I'm not going to tell anyone what to do with their own story; write it however you want... but the way I see it, the characters in Dragon Ball World could be speaking their own language entirely; it may not even have a real-world equivalent. Since "Japan" does not exist there, does it not make sense to suppose that their interactions are merely being described using Japanese, rather than holding that they all speak Japanese naturally?

If you look at it in that light, then really all you're doing by writing an English fic is using a different language to describe what's going on. All of the characterized dialogue can still exist, it's just represented in a different way. Finding a 1:1 correlation between -san and some English word like "mister" isn't necessary. All that needs to be done is convey the same level of familiarity, superiority, inferiority, or whatever else was present in the original character's speech as best you can.

Contrarily, while I would not argue that most English speakers are necessarily familiar with Japanese honorifics, they still can be used in an English context, much the way my high school Japanese teacher would use -san and -kun when addressing us. The exception there, though, would be our familiarity with that element of Japanese from the classroom experience. They would never be used if the person or people on the other end of the conversation weren't aware of it.

[Ex-Dubbie369]

Daisuki, I'm wondering what your going to do for any sort of foreshadowing of Goku's alien nature. Do you have any ideas other than having him become an ape a few times?

[caejones]

Well, he's ridiculously strong for his size? Though Kuririn was pretty close...
Zenkais. Hey yeah! Was Goku any stronger after the 23rd tournament ? (Woah, that was way off topic).

Though,I think having Goku be his weird self is forshadowing enough (well, the tail and Oozaru and 'Zenkai's and such...).

[Rocketman]

You're looking at this from the wrong angle. If you write a story set in Japan, with Japanese characters, who all speak Japanese all the time, and use honorifics, then, well, you should write them as using honorifics, yes? Dragonworld may not have a Japan but it is Japan when it comes to language. Thus the people of Dragonworld use honorifics.

Not when translated into English, they don't.

For example:

You have a scene where a German kid in Germany says "Ich mag jenen Apfel nicht. Er ist sauer!" Would you translate his dialogue as "I don't like that apple. He is sour!"? No, because English doesn't assign gender to inanimate objects.

What you're suggesting is 'well, since English can't convey the depth of referring to an apple as male, don't bother translating it.'

So, "I don't like that apple. Er is sour!"? Well, now you just sound like a pretentious cock.

[caejones]

Hee hee... ^__^. Though you realize people are going to storm with the difference between gender and honorifics, right?

And... umm... yeah... I still don't understand why languages have gender. Does... it make more sense if such a language is one's first?