"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[sintzu]

Toriyama basically stopped maintaining control over the main arc content.

Am I missing something ? Toriyama isn't Super's main writer anymore ?

I haven't been fully keeping up with this topic so can someone fill me in if that's the case ?

[omaro34]

Toriyama basically stopped maintaining control over the main arc content.

Am I missing something ? Toriyama isn't Super's main writer anymore ?

I haven't been fully keeping up with this topic so can someone fill me in if that's the case ?

Who knows? The narrative about this keeps getting changed. The only people that truly know are the people working on Super at Toei, Toyotaro would know, and of course Toriyama himself. Everything else is pointless speculation.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Toriyama basically stopped maintaining control over the main arc content.

Am I missing something ? Toriyama isn't Super's main writer anymore ?

I haven't been fully keeping up with this topic so can someone fill me in if that's the case ?

Who knows? The narrative about this keeps getting changed. The only people that truly know are the people working on Super at Toei, Toyotaro would know, and of course Toriyama himself. Everything else is pointless speculation.

It's pretty easy to assume that Toriyama's not overly-involved when we have a Yardrat based on an anime-only design, a new Broly, and two widely different interpretation of Super's narratives between anime and manga. In fact, we specifically know that Kale wasn't Toriyama's creation, but comes from the Dragon Ball Room. The origins of the FT Arc also come from an editorial office.

He's still writing the stories, but Toriyama's involvement is far more diluted compared to every other DB project he's been intimately involved with.

[Psykomatik]

Toriyama basically stopped maintaining control over the main arc content.

Am I missing something ? Toriyama isn't Super's main writer anymore ?

I haven't been fully keeping up with this topic so can someone fill me in if that's the case ?

Who knows? The narrative about this keeps getting changed. The only people that truly know are the people working on Super at Toei, Toyotaro would know, and of course Toriyama himself. Everything else is pointless speculation.

Toshio, a scenarist from Super, said a lot of times that Toriyama is heavily and directly implicated on every Super episodes, so take it as you want.

[sintzu]

Who knows? The narrative about this keeps getting changed. The only people that truly know are the people working on Super at Toei, Toyotaro would know, and of course Toriyama himself. Everything else is pointless speculation.

It's pretty easy to assume that Toriyama's not overly-involved when we have a Yardrat based on an anime-only design, a new Broly, and two widely different interpretation of Super's narratives between anime and manga. In fact, we specifically know that Kale wasn't Toriyama's creation, but comes from the Dragon Ball Room. The origins of the FT Arc also come from an editorial office.

He's still writing the stories, but Toriyama's involvement is far more diluted compared to every other DB project he's been intimately involved with.

None of the characters so far seem like Toriyama characters, especially Jerin. I could be wrong cause maybe he was busy with something else and they got the short end of the stick but if the characters are made by Toyotarou and Toei then maybe he just came up with the basic plot of the 8 universes fighting and left the characters to those 2.

[TheMikado]

The VERY first response was from a moderator.

As a moderator and trusted source on this site, this was about as authoritative of an answer as you can get here. The remainder of the responses didn't get much better.

To be completely fair, these responses were both from before I was made a moderator and before Toriyama basically stopped maintaining control over the main arc content. Circumstances changed, on both fronts. Toei are taking large liberties with the story, Toyotaro is also contributing designs, etc. It's no long surprising that content is branching out to include stuff Toriyama likely wouldn't have.

Does anyone remember that bug character description that was leaked from the website. Did anyone saw him in the last episode?

He's presumably one of the two fighters hiding.

Thank you for the response, I'm just point out that the sometimes the "purity" and "canon" drum gets beaten so loudly and hard that it clouds discussion. There were 5 pages about how it wasn't possible that the filler Yadrat was going to be the same as the Super Yadrat, some pointed to DB Online's depiction due to Toriyama's "involvement" in that making that version of the Yadrat "canon". Of course at the end of the day we are all human with different preferences but the waters are so muddy at this point the idea of "canon" or authenticity should probably be tossed out by now to a certain degree.

[TheMikado]

The last interview specifically said Toriyama wrote a "barebones" outline for the universal arc and the production team "fleshed it out".
What ever all that means it suggests a certain amount of liberty and concepts not from Toriyama, where and what they pull for the inspiration are only guesses at this point.

[FortuneSSJ]

The last interview specifically said Toriyama wrote a "barebones" outline for the universal arc and the production team "fleshed it out".

Toriyama writes "barebones" outlines since Super started. It's up to Toei and Toyotaro to fill up the blanks that connect his plot points.

[omaro34]

Who knows? The narrative about this keeps getting changed. The only people that truly know are the people working on Super at Toei, Toyotaro would know, and of course Toriyama himself. Everything else is pointless speculation.

It's pretty easy to assume that Toriyama's not overly-involved when we have a Yardrat based on an anime-only design, a new Broly, and two widely different interpretation of Super's narratives between anime and manga. In fact, we specifically know that Kale wasn't Toriyama's creation, but comes from the Dragon Ball Room. The origins of the FT Arc also come from an editorial office.

He's still writing the stories, but Toriyama's involvement is far more diluted compared to every other DB project he's been intimately involved with.

None of the characters so far seem like Toriyama characters, especially Jerin. I could be wrong cause maybe he was busy with something else and they got the short end of the stick but if the characters are made by Toyotarou and Toei then maybe he just came up with the basic plot of the 8 universes fighting and left the characters to those 2.

I hear you and Jinzoningen MULE, you both make valid points, but I keep hearing both sides of the spectrum.

Psykomatik pointed out that a scenarist from Super said Toriyama is involved in every episode. Yet characters like Kale aren't a creation from Toriyama which is true. It leaves me confused and uninterested in the topic anymore.

Until we hear from Toriyama himself with 100 percent conviction, my position in this matter remains the same.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Am I missing something ? Toriyama isn't Super's main writer anymore ?

I haven't been fully keeping up with this topic so can someone fill me in if that's the case ?

No, he's still writing the underlying plot same as he had been. But he's openly admitted that Toei's writers take his plots and makes changes or shuffle things around to make the version of the story we see on TV. It really started in the Future Trunks Arc, with the drastic changes in the anime and manga in the structure of how the story and mystery unfolds. Add in that Toyotaro, and maybe more, are helping with character designs this arc as well (presumably due to the sheer number of them), and he just has less of a presence than he did before.

Could always change back to how it was before next arc, if we don't have nearly a hundred characters to add into the mix.

[HeroR]

Am I missing something ? Toriyama isn't Super's main writer anymore ?

I haven't been fully keeping up with this topic so can someone fill me in if that's the case ?

No, he's still writing the underlying plot same as he had been. But he's openly admitted that Toei's writers take his plots and makes changes or shuffle things around to make the version of the story we see on TV. It really started in the Future Trunks Arc, with the drastic changes in the anime and manga in the structure of how the story and mystery unfolds. Add in that Toyotaro, and maybe more, are helping with character designs this arc as well (presumably due to the sheer number of them), and he just has less of a presence than he did before.

Could always change back to how it was before next arc, if we don't have nearly a hundred characters to add into the mix.

The Future Trunks Saga was done the same way as the Champa Saga in the anime. Only the manga change since Toriyama told Toyo to put in some of his own ideas.

[Lord Frieza]

Snip

Thank you for posting all that, yes that dose give me some insight. Also glad to hear this is not a "cannon" debate, which was what I was worried about.

So basically a lot of people have used the term "Cannon" to shut down your, and others, conversations off hand. They point blank said "Broly and LSS will NEVER be in Super because they are not cannon" and you want to know what they have got to say now. Also will people be able to speculate more freely since Super has proven a lot of supposedly "impossible due to cannon" things can and will happen?

Good post .

EDIT:

Thank you for the response, I'm just point out that the sometimes the "purity" and "canon" drum gets beaten so loudly and hard that it clouds discussion. There were 5 pages about how it wasn't possible that the filler Yadrat was going to be the same as the Super Yadrat, some pointed to DB Online's depiction due to Toriyama's "involvement" in that making that version of the Yadrat "canon". Of course at the end of the day we are all human with different preferences but the waters are so muddy at this point the idea of "canon" or authenticity should probably be tossed out by now to a certain degree.

Got to agree here. I've had a few speculations and idea's shut down myself through this. Also I may have been guilty of it myself so I'll try to keep an open mind.

As for the Yadrat now in Super, for my part I never said it could not be a Yardrat because of Cannon or Online. I merely stated that until we got confirmation that it was indeed a Yardrat we could not call it one.

True but he is not confirmed to be a Yardratian yet. Yes he looks like the ones from the filler episode by their are some physiological differences. Because of that we cannot assume that to the be the case no matter how likely it may seem.


It could very well be a Yardrat, thats not the point. Until it is officially stated to be one you cannot assume it is. By all mean hypothesize, it would be one based on very compelling evidence, but it is not a fact until it is proven to be the case.


I'm 99% shore your right but it has to be proven conclusively.

[GodKaio-Ken]

Snip

Thank you for posting all that, yes that dose give me some insight. Also glad to hear this is not a "cannon" debate, which was what I was worried about.

So basically a lot of people have used the term "Cannon" to shut down your, and others, conversations off hand. They point blank said "Broly and LSS will NEVER be in Super because they are not cannon" and you want to know what they have got to say now. Also will people be able to speculate more freely since Super has proven a lot of supposedly "impossible due to cannon" things can and will happen?

Good post .

Well technically it isn't Broly and 99% likely it isn't called LSS. However it is obviously BASED on Broly.

[alakazam^]

Yet characters like Kale aren't a creation from Toriyama which is true.

Where was this said?

[Big Black Sayian]

Yet characters like Kale aren't a creation from Toriyama which is true.

Where was this said?

I'm curious about this too. I thought the artwork from VJUMP was his his.
Edit: Or was that Toyotaro?

[HeroR]

Snip

Thank you for posting all that, yes that dose give me some insight. Also glad to hear this is not a "cannon" debate, which was what I was worried about.

So basically a lot of people have used the term "Cannon" to shut down your, and others, conversations off hand. They point blank said "Broly and LSS will NEVER be in Super because they are not cannon" and you want to know what they have got to say now. Also will people be able to speculate more freely since Super has proven a lot of supposedly "impossible due to cannon" things can and will happen?

Good post .

EDIT:

Thank you for the response, I'm just point out that the sometimes the "purity" and "canon" drum gets beaten so loudly and hard that it clouds discussion. There were 5 pages about how it wasn't possible that the filler Yadrat was going to be the same as the Super Yadrat, some pointed to DB Online's depiction due to Toriyama's "involvement" in that making that version of the Yadrat "canon". Of course at the end of the day we are all human with different preferences but the waters are so muddy at this point the idea of "canon" or authenticity should probably be tossed out by now to a certain degree.

Got to agree here. I've had a few speculations and idea's shut down myself through this. Also I may have been guilty of it myself so I'll try to keep an open mind.

As for the Yadrat now in Super, for my part I never said it could not be a Yardrat because of Cannon or Online. I merely stated that until we got confirmation that it was indeed a Yardrat we could not call it one.

True but he is not confirmed to be a Yardratian yet. Yes he looks like the ones from the filler episode by their are some physiological differences. Because of that we cannot assume that to the be the case no matter how likely it may seem.


It could very well be a Yardrat, thats not the point. Until it is officially stated to be one you cannot assume it is. By all mean hypothesize, it would be one based on very compelling evidence, but it is not a fact until it is proven to be the case.


I'm 99% shore your right but it has to be proven conclusively.

Pet peeve. It's canon not cannon.

[Lord Frieza]

Snip

Thank you for posting all that, yes that dose give me some insight. Also glad to hear this is not a "cannon" debate, which was what I was worried about.

So basically a lot of people have used the term "Cannon" to shut down your, and others, conversations off hand. They point blank said "Broly and LSS will NEVER be in Super because they are not cannon" and you want to know what they have got to say now. Also will people be able to speculate more freely since Super has proven a lot of supposedly "impossible due to cannon" things can and will happen?

Good post .

Well technically it isn't Broly and 99% likely it isn't called LSS. However it is obviously BASED on Broly.

Your probably right...but he still has a point. Kale and her form still COME from Broly. A character who was not a part of the manga and not cannon my many people definition.

Also while I have said we have not reached the point yet, even by your scoring there is still a 1% chance that with a single sentence we can be dealing with a "Broly is Cannon" scenario.

If that even dose occur.......well just read Mikado's original post.

[Lord Frieza]

Pet peeve. It's canon not cannon.

Ok you dont know this so I wont get mad. I'm dyslexic, quit severally in fact. While better then I was, I will always mess up words now and then. Also sometime I will never notice I made an error because of how my brain can effects my ability to read as well.

My pet peeve. People telling a dyslexic he spelt something wrong.

[BlueBasilisk]

I'm curious about this too. I thought the artwork from VJUMP was his his.
Edit: Or was that Toyotaro?

I think I remember someone saying it was Yamamuro.

[GodVegetto91]

A question to anyone with great translation skills

Did Whis really say: "there is a universe where lives a mortal even A god of destruction can't defeat." ??

Or did he acthally say that IT'S (it's universes') god of destruction can't beat.

Because this would make all the difference. If he said there's a mortal A god of destruction can't beat then it would apply to ALL gods of destruction, rather than the one of the universe said mortal belongs to.