Will Toei/Pony Canyon do a Blu-ray release?

[Robo4900]

Stuff like this makes me wonder about areas where the Dragon Box is problematic (especially with OG DB apparently) that other releases don't have said issues with.

They're still the best release of the lot, not that that's saying much, given how poor all the other releases are.

Also a couple of related questions. First of all, Do the original Digibeta masters of DBGT (the ones with the scrolling credits in Ep 64) show more picture than the Dragon Box masters?

Hard to say.

Second, if one was to discount the R1 DB singles due to horrendous macroblocking and the R4 DB singles due to field blending which is said to be difficult, if not impossible, to reverse, which would you say has better detail? The uncut NTSC VHS tapes of DB or the Blue Bricks? Sure the tapes have lower resolution, but can the amount of detail squeezed out of a high end VHS player combined with a Superresolution-like restoration method give more detail than the DVNR applied Blue Bricks?

Field blending isn't that difficult to reverse, just takes some time as the filters required to do so can be rather slow.
I'd say the Blue Bricks would probably be a little better, although it's hard to say without seeing what the VHS footage looked like; it would depend on how well the tapes were printed, probably.

There's no way of knowing what will happen.

HDTV is the standard, particularly in Japan; there's only one release of the original three series in Japan; Toei have all the original film elements for the three shows.
A HD remaster would likely sell well, they'd be able to give these news masters to TV stations and get it more airtime, and once Super's over, they'll be able to market it as a "Watch the entire saga again!" type affair.
It's a sound decision.
Even if they don't do it like that, if they've already done Blu-Rays for so many other shows, it only makes sense to do it with a show like Dragon Ball, particularly since they have the materials to do a really nice job with it.
Sure, I don't know for sure, but I'm as certain as I can be about a future event that Toei will eventually do a Blu-Ray. As I say, maybe they'd start off with just OG Dragon Ball and do one last ditch effort to make Kai relevant in Japan, or maybe they'd just cut their losses with Kai, and just do the original two. Hell, maybe they'd do all three and the movies too. Who knows.
But whatever they do, it just makes sense for them to do it in HD. Maybe not right now, maybe not within the next few years, but eventually, standard def will be as dated as VHS is now. And when that happens, Toei will have to have a HD version of Dragon Ball out.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Kai was their Blu-ray DBZ release, in my opinion.

That was the plan, but Kai was a catastrophic failure in Japan. That's why they cancelled it after the Cell arc, and did all that idiocy about delaying Boo Kai for a billion years.

That's not true at all. The ratings for Kai were perfectly fine, plenty of people have watched and enjoyed it. It was cancelled because it didn't sell merchandise.

[simtek34]

I just hope that FUNimation will buy the possible HD Dragon Ball Remaster for Future Season sets. (And reissue the Z ones with new disc footage.)
Another thing I would want is the option to watch the DB/Z movies in either 4:3 Fullscreen or 16:9 Widescreen Aspect Ratio. I will mostly watch the movies in Widescreen myself, but I know others want the Fullscreen version and I will get curious form time to time.

[Lookerman]

Was Q-Tec responsible for the redraws in Kai 1.0? I always thought that was probably Toei's Filipino studio's handiwork.

It was, all Q-Tec handled was the transfer, noise reduction, color correction, and film cleanup, the redrawn scenes were handled by Toei Animation's Filipino branch TAP.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

As for other non-DBox releases, you can find crushed blacks on them in general, with releases of the early episodes of Z being the easiest comparison. None of GT's releases factor into this, as all of Funimation's GT releases are based off the Dragon Box masters.

I've always found that Funimation crushes their blacks and whites on a lot of their anime (as I mentioned some time ago, I think Heavy Object is one of the more notorious, non DB-based examples from them). I never got why they do that though, I mean I'd argue it'd the masters, but most of those examples tend to be digipaint stuff, and Super (nor the first "Levels" Blu-Ray) doesn't seem to have those same issues unlike its predecessors.

[Android 50]

Its a shame really. i want to see Maron in bluray quality already dammit!

I think if Toei was going to do it they would have by now. Probably around the 2014-2016 period to capitalize off the new DBZ movies and the new series Super.

[TheGreatness25]

You know what kind of gets me? Lots of people are so sure that they'd release it. "It's inevitable." "It'll happen." Will it? The series has existed for well over two decades and had like 2 DVD releases and has never graced Blu-ray. If they never struck before, why would they suddenly strike now? Blu-rays existed for over a decade and the thought never even crossed their mind to put the extremely popular DB and DBZ on Blu-ray before (not counting Kai). So why are people so sure that they will? Because Super is popular? That's why they're putting Super on Blu-ray.

[DBZimran]

You know what kind of gets me? Lots of people are so sure that they'd release it. "It's inevitable." "It'll happen." Will it?

That is exactly why I want to know if they will or not. It is such a shame that they made mistakes on the Dragon Boxes with the colour correction and frame jitter. Sailor Moon was released on Blu-Ray despite Sailor Moon Crystal being released, so I think Kai being a fill-in for Z isn't a plausible explanation for why they haven't released DBZ on Blu-Ray yet. I always find it frustrating to know we got handed such a short straw with Dragon Ball releases. Nothing has got it completely right. Although not perfect, Yu Yu Hakusho and Ranma ½ both series from the same time as DBZ have such good quality Blu-Ray releases. When compared to the awful audio and the faded colours that Dragon Ball has had with its releases. I know Toei also released Hokuto No Ken remastered on DVD, the visuals are really good I'm not sure about the audio. Why can't they just capitalise on the success that Dragon Ball has had for the past 5 years since Battle of Gods was released.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Sailor Moon was released on Blu-Ray despite Sailor Moon Crystal being released, so I think Kai being a fill-in for Z isn't a plausible explanation for why they haven't released DBZ on Blu-Ray yet.

Wasn't the Sailor Moon Blu-ray just an upscale?

Anyway, it's not the same thing. Kai isn't a different series like Crystal, but a remastered and cut-down version of the already existing Z.

[TheGreatness25]

You know what kind of gets me? Lots of people are so sure that they'd release it. "It's inevitable." "It'll happen." Will it?

That is exactly why I want to know if they will or not. It is such a shame that they made mistakes on the Dragon Boxes with the colour correction and frame jitter. Sailor Moon was released on Blu-Ray despite Sailor Moon Crystal being released, so I think Kai being a fill-in for Z isn't a plausible explanation for why they haven't released DBZ on Blu-Ray yet. I always find it frustrating to know we got handed such a short straw with Dragon Ball releases. Nothing has got it completely right. Although not perfect, Yu Yu Hakusho and Ranma ½ both series from the same time as DBZ have such good quality Blu-Ray releases. When compared to the awful audio and the faded colours that Dragon Ball has had with its releases. I know Toei also released Hokuto No Ken remastered on DVD, the visuals are really good I'm not sure about the audio. Why can't they just capitalise on the success that Dragon Ball has had for the past 5 years since Battle of Gods was released.

I completely get it and I totally agree. Though honestly, at this point, I'm so freaking done collecting Dragon Ball Z. It's not Toei's fault, it's all Funimation. But damn. Like I need an appraisal on my DB collection because I think I could get a pretty penny for it. I have every single incarnation of DBZ that Funimation ever put out from the singles to the orange bricks to the Dragon Box to the Blu-rays to the Level Sets (thanks for that one, assholes), to the Ultimate Uncut (and thanks for that one too, assholes), to the Japanese Dragon Boxes and even Kai. Like I'm done with the "perfect DBZ release."

Yes, it sucks that we will never get that really definitive DBZ -- or DB for that matter -- release, but it's just not looking likely. I don't know if this had any correlation, but it's pretty funny how Funimation go and "remaster" DBZ with their orange bricks and just a couple of years later, here's Toei with their own remaster (Kai). I don't know if one had to do with the other, but it's a bit odd that after years of collecting dust, Toei decided to flex their Dragon Ball Z muscle. But honestly, I think that in their mind, that is their remaster of DBZ. I mean that's what they advertised it as, right?

I think that the best bet -- best case scenario -- is maybe one day after inflation or advances in technology, that Funimation would be able to use that level set remastering process and do it more cost-effectively than with the Level Sets. I, myself, never really saw what the big deal about the Level Sets was, but you know, so many people would be happy because of the colors and all that. I don't have a problem with the Dragon Box colors, but I don't represent the entire fanbase. So if it would make everyone happy, I really hope that it happens.

I just think that it would more likely come from Funimation than from Toei.

And to circle back to Sailor Moon, I love these two quotes from the "Why is Toei reanimating Sailor Moon but not DBZ?" thread:

Toei reanimating Sailor Moon but not DBZ because Naoko Takeuchi is actually passionate about protecting her work.

Anyway. I like how SM fans gets everything DBZ fans want - an actual remake, uncropped Blurays, a redub, a decent live-action, etc. Well, not bad for Yamcha fans, he's also in Sailor Moon you know.

Well its as you said. Unlike Dragonball, Sailor Moon's author actually gives a damn about her creation.

[DBZimran]

Sailor Moon was released on Blu-Ray despite Sailor Moon Crystal being released, so I think Kai being a fill-in for Z isn't a plausible explanation for why they haven't released DBZ on Blu-Ray yet.

Wasn't the Sailor Moon Blu-ray just an upscale?

Anyway, it's not the same thing. Kai isn't a different series like Crystal, but a remastered and cut-down version of Z.

Yeah you're right it was a upscale. Kai as a whole has failed to recreate Dragon Ball Z as a "Filler-less" show. It stopped after the Cell arc, and then had two different versions for the Boo arc. Not to mention the fiasco with Kenji Yamamoto,things could not have been worse. It's just a complete misunderstanding of what the fans want from the original material. Super and the new movies is a good way to market the series towards new fans and children, however those who grew up with Dragon Ball will yearn for the version they watched. With the original Shinsuke Kikuchi score, the older cel animation style. Kai was a genuine disrespect to the fans by tracing over the show so lazily and inserting rushed reanimated scenes here and there to make it even more jarring. I know casual fans who kept asking me why didn't they animate it like the opening? Obviously if they were to do a filler-less approach to DBZ then something like Sailor Moon Crystal would have been more effective. Dragon Ball is a property which should be handled with a lot more respect than what Toei can possibly give to it.

I completely get it and I totally agree. Though honestly, at this point, I'm so freaking done collecting Dragon Ball Z. It's not Toei's fault, it's all Funimation. But damn. Like I need an appraisal on my DB collection because I think I could get a pretty penny for it. I have every single incarnation of DBZ that Funimation ever put out from the singles to the orange bricks to the Dragon Box to the Blu-rays to the Level Sets (thanks for that one, assholes), to the Ultimate Uncut (and thanks for that one too, assholes), to the Japanese Dragon Boxes and even Kai. Like I'm done with the "perfect DBZ release."

Funimation has over saturated the western market with Dragon Ball releases. The Japanese probably don't even import the series from America, at least I think so. I know that Japan is in the same Blu-Ray region as America so I wouldn't rule it out. The fact is if Toei go back to the original masters and re-scan them properly into HD we could finally discard the other releases and keep this one release. This would be better than anything that Funimation can come up with, considering they are scanning multi-generational masters. The time and effort put into the Level Sets with the return they saw wasn't worth it, they went and gave us everything we wanted and side tracked with the Blu-Ray season sets. I remember they had a poll once about DBZ on Blu-Ray before a release was done on the platform. One of the questions was "4:3 or 16:9" I mean what kind of market research is it when we all, and anybody who cares for the show ticked 4:3. They go back to 16:9, I feel like Funimation is done releasing Dragon Ball Z, considering they have Super and Z Kai Final Chapters.

And to circle back to Sailor Moon...

Do you think that Toriyama actually has a say in the releases of Dragon Ball and how it is released. Would Toei do anything like a re-dub or a Blu-Ray release if Toriyama insisted?

[sintzu]

The reason Kai failed was presumably because people in Japan prefer Z as it is.

Kai itself didn't fail cause it was always in the top 10 most watched shows, what killed it was the lack of merchandise sales which was most likely due to how poorly made they were back then.

[TheGreatness25]

I think that the way the creator handles his or her work plays a huge role, yes. Someone who is very hands-on with their property would always maintain some level of control. That's different than a writer who just completely signs away everything to do with a series to the company producing it -- that would make it so that the creator has zero control.

See, this is what I don't know and maybe someone does, I don't know. Is it Akira Toriyama that came up with Dragon Ball and Toei picked it up, or is it Akira Toriyama who was contracted by Toei and instructed to work on Dragon Ball? That makes all of the difference in the world. I don't know about Harry Potter at all, but I'm assuming that the author had a huge say in what happened in the movies. What I do know (yeah...) is that the author of 50 Shades was very, very hands-on with the movie. Because she cared about her work. Now she could have said, "Ooh, money! Here, you have the rights to do whatever you want!" but instead, she chose to protect her work by not giving it up unless she had a lot of control over the project. That makes a world of difference.

If Toei basically contracted Toriyama to write Dragon Ball for them, theoretically, it's not even Toriyama's work as it would be Toei's. But if Akira Toriyama was contacted to allow Toei to do whatever with the series, that's where him caring about it would come into play. I can see that he had no say in it because they made GT and he was like, "Well, they're doing this now. Hope it goes well!" Meanwhile, someone who kept control over their work would never let someone else do anything without running it by them.

So it appears that Sailor Moon's creator is someone who is heavily involved and wants to control the series, at least from such posts that I referenced. In which case, good for her! That's how it should be.

[sintzu]

It sucks that we will never get that really definitive DBZ release.

I don't know if this had any correlation, but it's pretty funny how Funimation go and "remaster" DBZ with their orange bricks and just a couple of years later, here's Toei with their own remaster (Kai). I don't know if one had to do with the other, but it's a bit odd that after years of collecting dust, Toei decided to flex their Dragon Ball Z muscle.

What is a "definitive" release ? For me, it's Kai because I like anime to be as close to the manga as possible. For people who grew up with Toonami, it's a release with the Bruce Faulcnor soundtrack, for new viewers, it's a 16:9 release, for old viewers, it would be a 4:3, etc.

There are so many answers to this that you could never make one release that's "definitive" cause whatever you do, it'll only cator to one group.

In terms of why Kai happened, Bandai wanted a new show but Toriyama wouldn't do it so they decided to cut Z down.

[TheGreatness25]

It sucks that we will never get that really definitive DBZ release.

I don't know if this had any correlation, but it's pretty funny how Funimation go and "remaster" DBZ with their orange bricks and just a couple of years later, here's Toei with their own remaster (Kai). I don't know if one had to do with the other, but it's a bit odd that after years of collecting dust, Toei decided to flex their Dragon Ball Z muscle.

What is a "definitive" release ? For me, it's Kai because I like anime to be as close to the manga as possible. For people who grew up with Toonami, it's a release with the Bruce Faulcnor soundtrack, for new viewers, it's a 16:9 release, for old viewers, it would be a 4:3, etc.

There are so many answers to this that you could never make one release that's "definitive" cause whatever you do, it'll only cator to one group.

Well you know what I mean. The "perfect" Dragon Ball Z release with colors that make sense and the entire picture in frame and all that. And Kai is not the "definitive" Z release because it's not Dragon Ball Z. We're talking about Dragon Ball Z the anime, not Dragon Ball the story. And I think that's where a lot of people get steered off course. This is all about getting Dragon Ball Z the anime and making it right. This isn't about tweaking it to conform to Akira Toriyama's vision because then it's not Dragon Ball Z. One tweak to the story and it's not Dragon Ball Z. If they wanted to do a definitive adaptation of Dragon Ball the manga, then I would understand (though I still wouldn't go for Kai but rather reanimated to make sure that every manga panel is basically reproduced in some form on a TV screen).

[sintzu]

Is it Akira Toriyama that came up with Dragon Ball and Toei picked it up, or is it Akira Toriyama who was contracted by Toei and instructed to work on Dragon Ball?

Toriyama made DB and Toei picked it up cause the previous story he did that they worked on was a big hit so they thought it would be as well.

[DBZimran]

It sucks that we will never get that really definitive DBZ release.

I don't know if this had any correlation, but it's pretty funny how Funimation go and "remaster" DBZ with their orange bricks and just a couple of years later, here's Toei with their own remaster (Kai). I don't know if one had to do with the other, but it's a bit odd that after years of collecting dust, Toei decided to flex their Dragon Ball Z muscle.

What is a "definitive" release ? For me, it's Kai because I like anime to be as close to the manga as possible. For people who grew up with Toonami, it's a release with the Bruce Faulcnor soundtrack, for new viewers, it's a 16:9 release, for old viewers, it would be a 4:3, etc.

There are so many answers to this that you could never make one release that's "definitive" cause whatever you do, it'll only cator to one group.

I'd say that I know the people I talk to and the majority of people in this community want a release with a better Japanese audio track, correct colours and no loss of visual information. Its just that love for the series that we have after researching into it and the various releases. We have a protective feeling towards it where its just displeasing to see it being damaged or butchered. I know if other fans who are more casual into the series, if they cared enough to look into it they would probably want the same. I love the Faulconer score, but I love the series in 4:3, I find Kai to be a hack-job of the original. If they were to release a perfect release you could go through the effort of ripping the Faulconer score from the orange bricks and syncing it. Its extra work but its a worthy trade off.

I think 16:9 to 4:3 is so ridiculous if you really cared that much just change your TVs aspect ratio to Zoom if you want it to fill the screen.

[TheGreatness25]

Is it Akira Toriyama that came up with Dragon Ball and Toei picked it up, or is it Akira Toriyama who was contracted by Toei and instructed to work on Dragon Ball?

Toriyama made DB and Toei picked it up cause the previous story he did that they worked on was a big hit so they thought it would be as well.

Then that's where Dragon Ball and Sailor Moon differ. Akira Toriyama signed away his rights for the Dragon Ball television series. He signed away the rights to the characters. He signed away the rights to the story. He allowed someone to take his characters and his story and make derivatives of them without even securing himself a place to be involved in that stuff. They've made movies, specials, and even a whole series without needing to involve him. Sure, they got his "blessing," which was "Hey, I'm sure it will be fine!" but they didn't need it. He basically washed his hands of the entire franchise because now Toei owns it. This is a huge contrast from people who protect their work, who have a hand in everything that's done with it and who can say, "You know what, if you're going to remaster it, do it right" or say "You know what, if you're going to do a release, you should do it right." Otherwise, it just wouldn't get done because a creator like that would make sure that it's either done right or not done at all. Meanwhile, Toei has free reign on Dragon Ball.

This is zero judgment against Akira Toriyama because I am sure he's a wonderful man and his creation has brought a lot of joy in my life. But at the same time, it's just me saying that he doesn't seem to put a level of care into his work the way others do.

[sintzu]

Its just that love for the series that we have after researching into it and the various releases. We have a protective feeling towards it where its just displeasing to see it being damaged or butchered.

I understand this cause like most here, I also don't like seeing it treated the way its been (I love Kai so I'm obviously more forgiven on it). A lot of fans here say the DBOX is the perfect release so would they considar a release with changed colors (even if they are more accurate) to be perfect ?

[TheGreatness25]

A lot of fans here say the DBOX is the perfect release so would they considar a release with changed colors (even if they are more accurate) to be perfect ?

The Dragon Boxes are the most perfect releases, but they aren't perfect. A lot of people would prefer change in colors and audio. What makes the Dragon Boxes a close to perfect release is the whole package: the books, the episode count, the artwork, everything. It's a totally complete set. It's not even like Funimation who released them, it's basically you buy one thing and you have everything. With Z, you had to buy two things, but it was complete. It was a nice, neat package with great extra features and great booklets. It has everything, including the next episode previews. It's not cropped the way that Funimation's work was even before the orange bricks (even with the singles, there was always cropping to it). The only thing that I would say held the Dragon Box back from being the "perfect" release is the colors and audio. The audio isn't very high quality (though I could live without that) and the colors are not what they were for the TV broadcast (I also don't care about this, but I can see people really wanting this). Otherwise, the Dragon Boxes are freaking king.

[Bruma rabu]

Wish i had the optimism you guys got, but i honestly don't think they will ever properly remaster it. Kai is it, DBZ is over and probably wont be touched ever again. I also have little hope for db too, they would have done something with it by now but they haven't done anything since db boxes. As for GT forget about it, Super existence takes away any chance of that ever coming out on blu ray.