"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[The gr]

I'm not a fan of this chapter,the tone is off and is even worse than the anime,is all happy and upbeat,it felt weird reading it

And pilaf coming up with the time travel mechanics is insane,I never knew this man intelligence rivals Bulma.Speaking of pilaf, I did like his interaction with mai,they were cute,this chapter have surprisingly good iinteraction

And I did like MZ mentioning he will follow them everywhere with the time machine of u12 but is strange that MZ made a million copies with out no one dismantling him,I think cloud zamas was better,it and the dialogue with goku and vegeta was awesome and zeno was just cute here,I was laughing how goku threat zeno like a little kid and the mz army running away is just funny

overall this chapter was a let down,it was a bad ending with the only good thing going for is the interaction

[dbzfan7]

So now fully reading it....the ending still sucks just like in the anime.

-The last stand thing doesn't make much sense if Zamasu can just go to the past anyways.
-I do really like Zeno appearing he more than in the anime. Because we actually see him and Zamasu react to one another.
-What was Zamasu supposed to do? Why is running bad? The anime one would have done the same thing if he noticed Zeno was there and would have freaked out. He knows he can't beat him or even compare.
-Zeno overkills either for no reason or it's just to show how cold and careless he is. It could work in both cases. On one hand I wonder why he stupidly wipes everything out when unlike the Anime, it wasn't needed. On the other, Zeno is just the kind of careless god who really doesn't care about what he wipes out.
-I really hate how it's treated as a happy ending. At least the anime got it right where it's not a happy ending. His world is gone, and he shouldn't be so passive about it.
-Still hate the alternate world stuff. I guess it's to live with the people he knew of in another world....but it just sucks away most of the consequences. Which is stupid. He should have just lived in the past, or taken up Kaioshin's offer.
-Farewell was probably better focusing on Pilaf......I threw up in my mouth just thinking that. Mainly because Mai and Pilaf have more of a connection than Trunks and Present Gohan....

Overall a disappointing end to an arc that had so much promise but in both mediums, dropped the ball.

[Legion]

Beerus said he can't kill an immortal Zamasu, and we already know this in the anime, but in the previous chapter Goku was about to kill immortal Zamasu with hakai (Zamasu saved himself with Mai).

I just read the viz translation and there it's stated that Beerus just can't kill gods, which raises a question about him killing Zamas(maybe you aren't a true god until you become a Kaioshin or Hakaishin?).

Is a mistranslation, even Herms said it. Beerus said he can't kill immortal beings.

[dbgtFO]

Beerus said he can't kill an immortal Zamasu, and we already know this in the anime, but in the previous chapter Goku was about to kill immortal Zamasu with hakai (Zamasu saved himself with Mai).

I just read the viz translation and there it's stated that Beerus just can't kill gods, which raises a question about him killing Zamas(maybe you aren't a true god until you become a Kaioshin or Hakaishin?).

Is a mistranslation, even Herms said it. Beerus said he can't kill immortal beings.

Seriously, is there a way to contact Viz and have them fix their mistranslation? Because this is totally unacceptable! This isn't just any mistranslation, this is the worst one and biggest they could have made this chapter! An extremely important one. How could they fuck up like this? Don't they understand japanese? There's a huge difference between the word "God" and "Immortal" you know..

Well, whaddya know, Viz are even worse than I thought!

[DBZ Macky]

It's kind of disturbing when fan translations are more accurate than the actual ones. It's just a minor mistake though, Beerus's statement was meant to be contradictory or unfounded anyways.

[Lord Beerus]

I can't believe Viz would flub Beerus' line like that, especially given the context of it can have such an impact retroactively on the narrative of the Future Trunks arc in the manga.

[ekrolo2]

Wait, Beerus can't kill an immortal? So I guess Goku's Hakai wouldn't have worked anyway?

[dbgtFO]

Wait, Beerus can't kill an immortal? So I guess Goku's Hakai wouldn't have worked anyway?

Nah, Goku just does it better, because he's Goku. One might even call it a "Super" Hakai!

[FortuneSSJ]

- Chapter 26-

Ok chapter.
Despite the beginning being Metal Coola's movie all over again and I rather new stuff like the anime did, I like Toyotaro's version.

Overall, the ending is the same than the anime as expected.

The message of this arc ending is that no matter how much you try, there are things you can't do and a happy ending is not something you should ever take for granted.
A great parallel to the real World. You never know how dark tomorrow can be. That mentatily "I can do everything if I try hard enough" it's not true. No one can do everything no matter how much he/she tries and that's why we help (or should help) each other. And even together there are things we just can't do. That's what happened in this arc. Even with his friends help, FT Trunks couldn't save his World.

FT Trunks is a character that revolves around the theme "HOPE" and he's the best one to carry this message. Life goes on, but that doesn't mean he should be happy after what just happened though.

I'm pleased and surprised at the same time that Toriyama came up with such a mature and bittersweet ending, especially after he talked how dark Bardock - The Father of Goku TV Special was. Great job! The only thing I would add would be FT Trunks become a Time Patrol and make sure something like that would never happen again. DB online elements make it to the main story is something I wish for.

Things I didn't like in this chapter:

- FT Trunks acting like it was a good day instead of being sad. He lost everything he fought so hard for. No matter much you try to approach it, it's not a happy ending at all.
- Pilaf being smarter than Bulma. He being able to create some stuff like robots to pilot doesn't mean he is as smart as characters like Dr. Gero or Bulma. He just did something Bulma couldn't do and he totally felt out of character in that part.
- No Vegeta punching FT Trunks or FT Trunks/Gohan interaction at all. This farewell version is trash compared to the beautiful anime version.

Overall, despite some of my complaints It was also an awesome arc in the manga. It was more entertaining than Champa arc and the fact Toyotaro didn't rush it makes it more memorable. I'm glad he didn't so I can have a proper manga version of one of my favourite arcs of the franchise. I approve it!

Best chapters: 20 and 25

SSB Goku vs Merged Zamasu is my favourite fight in the manga so far.

[The gr]

This arc was fun despite the flaws,my favorite chapters are 15,20,21,25 and 27,these chapters have amazing battles,the tension was great and the atmosphere was amazing in those chapters and trunk role in chapter 20 and 21 was great in there,he was weak and all but he never backs down in a figth,which I appreciate that Toyotaro didn't made trunks and mai cowards,my least favorite chapter are 18,19,22 and maybe 26 because the ending was bad

[Dai-Saiyajin]

Why would Zamasu need the U12 time machine to go to the past ? it's not more easy to use the time ring that represent the main timeline and go there ?

[emperior]

So the Anime doesn't explain jack and the Manga is just a huge exposition dump? That could work in our favor, but nooo, the Manga has different mechanics for Super Saiyan Blue and other stuff. I feel Super could've been a bit better if it was a single product on which both Toyotarou and Anime staff worked together.

That's exactly what Super should be. They should aim for a flawless version of Toriyama's outlines, all together.

[DBZ Macky]

So the Anime doesn't explain jack and the Manga is just a huge exposition dump? That could work in our favor, but nooo, the Manga has different mechanics for Super Saiyan Blue and other stuff. I feel Super could've been a bit better if it was a single product on which both Toyotarou and Anime staff worked together.

That's exactly what Super should be. They should aim for a flawless version of Toriyama's outlines, all together.

Yeah, definitely. Do you think the production companies would earn as much, if not more if they pooled in their combined efforts to produce a superior product?

[Noah]

Another terrible chapter, I didn't like this ending back in Episode 67 and I still don't like it now.

As said before, making this far more upbeat than it should, made everything worse. The anime had the trope of Future Trunks realizing his failure and his last scene with Gohan. Come on, the guy lose everything and it's only solution was to awkwardly live in a world with doppelgangers, he should be upset.

Oh, well... The good thing is that I'm glad all this mess is finally over and then Toyotaro has another chance of redempt himself with next arc.

[Tectorman]

You know, I think Toyotaro took a page out of TFS's book on this latest chapter.

Omni-King: What's this? It's all messed up.
Goku: Th-those guys did all this...
Zamasu: ...! ...!
Omni-King: So many of them. Is this their fault?
Goku: Y-yes. They are bad guys.

Was anyone else reminded of DBZ Abridged Episode 10?

Goku: Remember Icarus?
Oozaru-Gohan: Grr?
Goku: He did it.
Oozaru-Gohan: GRRARR!!
Vegeta: Oh, that's bullshit!

[emperior]

So the Anime doesn't explain jack and the Manga is just a huge exposition dump? That could work in our favor, but nooo, the Manga has different mechanics for Super Saiyan Blue and other stuff. I feel Super could've been a bit better if it was a single product on which both Toyotarou and Anime staff worked together.

That's exactly what Super should be. They should aim for a flawless version of Toriyama's outlines, all together.

Yeah, definitely. Do you think the production companies would earn as much, if not more if they pooled in their combined efforts to produce a superior product?

I believe having two different stories of the same outline like we have now is only splitting the fan base up.
In my opinion, the best thing to happen would be if Toyotaro and Toei combined their efforts, by sharing their storyboards and most importantly by expanding Toriyama's outlines together and having the same dialogues. It would be even better if the manga became weekly. It would make Super feel like a more complete product, and because Toriyama provides the outlines in advance (instead of making things up on the fly), the anime and the manga would proceed more or less on the same pace (once the anime completely fixes its schedule problems). Also, the anime wouldn't be an adaptation as it was back during DB and DBZ.
I believe that in the long run these changes could greatly benefit the show. It would be awesome if they applied these changes once Super goes past EoZ (if it ever does).

[OLKv3]

Nobody talking about the clear Boo aftermath reference? Goku and crew arriving home with no dialogue and just showing everyone happy they're back was a clear homage to Goku and crew arriving to Dende's lookout after beating Kid Boo

[Boo Machine]

Nobody talking about the clear Boo aftermath reference? Goku and crew arriving home with no dialogue and just showing everyone happy they're back was a clear homage to Goku and crew arriving to Dende's lookout after beating Kid Boo

Is it really a reference? I just saw it as a scene that didn't need dialogue. But now that you mention it, knowing the manga, there is a good chance it's a reference.

[TobyS]

I feel like there were some contextual differences that made the tonally different ending more acceptable.

When they called Zeno to kill the Zamasu hordes it was less likely that he would wipe everything out, it was plausible to believe he could just kill the zams and nothing else. It felt less irresponsible to summon him in the first place.

It was made expressly clear that Zamasu would create more timelines using a machine and create more overall suffering, nuking that universe was the better option in that scenario, they stopped zamasus spread, despite the losses that was worth celebrating.

I can buy them being slightly more upbeat. It also seems from the clothing changes that they maybe stayed a few more days before heading off. So they had time to cry and mourn off panel.

I don't think Pilaf is necessarily smarter than Bulma. Bulma said she had a way to go (implicitly to catch up with her future self) she's lazier and more decadent than future Bulma. I think it goes: Future Bulma > Pilaf > Present Bulma.

[DBZ Macky]

I don't think Pilaf is necessarily smarter than Bulma. Bulma said she had a way to go (implicitly to catch up with her future self) she's lazier and more decadent than future Bulma. I think it goes: Future Bulma > Pilaf > Present Bulma.

Haha, it's kinda like a power level chain:

Bulma (Full Power) > Pilaf > Bulma (Holding Back)

"Bulma's stronger than Pilaf, but only when she's at her best. She got complacent in the times of peace and lost a good chunk of her power, while Pilaf surpassed her."